Jan 09, 2023 City Commission Conference Agenda

[1. Call to Order]

[00:00:09]

. >>MAYOR HUDSON: I WOULD LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER MO MONDAY, JANUARY 9. THIS THE CONFERENCE AGENDA OF

THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE. >> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: CALL THE ROLL PLEASE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: PRESENT. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: PRE PRESENT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: PRESENT.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: HERE MA'

[a. Discussion with Major D. Bonds, Captain J. Yetter, and Lieutenant D. Rogerson of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.]

MA'AM. >> THE FIRST ITEM WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA IS THE DISCUSSION WITH MAJOR BONDS, CAPTAIN YETTER AND LIEUTENANT ROGERSON OF THE FLORIDA FISH AND WILDLIFE

CONSERVATION COMMISSION. >>MAYOR HUDSON: MR. MIMS WOULD

YOU LIKE TO LEAD INTO THIS. >>NICHOLAS MIMMS: ABSOLUTELY.

IWILL ASK MAYOR BONDS AND HIS TEAM TO COME UP.

HE WAS NICE ENOUGH TO GIVE US HIS TIME AFTER A BRIEF DISCUSSION AND WILL GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF THE WATERWAYS AN AND HIS MISSION WITH THE FLORIDA FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION COMM COMMISSION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: GREAT. HAPPY TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> HAPPY TO BE HERE AND HOPE THE NEW YEAR GETS KICKED OFF IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND HAPPY TO BE HERE.

AFTER THE REQUEST OF MR. MIMS, WE COME UP WITH DIFFERENT INFORMATION AND CUT IT DOWN TO BE PROCESSED AND THE HOPE IS HIGH LEVEL ON THE INFORMATION AND GET THE INFORMATION YOU NEED. FORT PIERCE, THE WATERWAYS IN FORT PIERCE AND THE HOTTER ISSUES THAT IMPACT THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE AND OUR INVOLVEMENT IN THE STATEWIDE LEVEL.

WE WILL START OUT WITH WHO WE ARE, WHAT WE DO AND HOW WE INTERACT WITH THE OTHER AGENCIES AND JURISDICTIONS OF FORT PIERCE AND GET INTO THE ISSUES THAT ARE LITTLE MORE IMPORTANT FOR YOUR T TEAM.

DISCUSS THE RULES AND REGULATIONS IN THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE. THE BOATING PUBLIC AND HOW VIOLATIONS ARE BEING ADDRESSED AND CURRENT STATUS OF THE WATERWAY SPECIFIC TO THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE.

JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON OUR AUTHORITY WITHIN FWC.

A BROAD OVERVIEW. WE ARE GRANTED BROAD CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY TO MANAGE FISH AND WILDLIFE RESOURCES. ALSO THE FLORIDA LEGISLATOR ASSIGNED SOME RESPONSIBILITIES WITH LIMITED CITY OF TAMPA TORY FOR CAPTIVE WILDLIFE AND BOATING WHICH IS WHAT WE WILL GET IN DEPTH. ALSO INCLUDES STATE STATUTES UNDER FLORIDA STATUTES. THE DIVISION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

JUST LIKE ANY OTHER AGENCY. OUR DIVISION IS ONE OF SIX OF FWC AND THE STATE CONSERVATION FRAMEWORK.

379133 PROVIDES FULL ARREST POWERS AS WE DISCUSSED UNDER STATE LAWS AND OTHER RULES OF THE COMMISSION.

PROACTIVE AND REACTIVE PATROLS. LEAD AGENCY ON STATE WATERS AND LANDS ACROSS THE STATE AND FEDERALLY DEPUTIZED OUT TO 200 MILES OFF SSHORE PRIORITY OVERVIEWS.

AN OVERVIEW WHAT OUR AGENCY DOES.

BOATING AND WATERWAY PROTECTION, HUNTING AND FISHING, BOATING SAFETY, HABITAT PROTECTION, CAPTIVE WILDLIFE ENFORCEMENT.

MARINE FISHING ENFORCEMENT. STATE LAND, PARK PATROLS.

AND WILDLIFE AREAS AND OTHER STATE PARKS AS WELL AS FORT PIERCE INLET FOR EXAMPLE LOCALLY.

PUBLIC SAFETY JUST THE SAME GENERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT FUNCTIONS AS OUR CITY DEPUTIES AND CITY POLICE OFFICERS.

GETTING DEEPER INTO WATERWAY ENFORCEMENT.

STATEWIDE LEADER OF BOATING ENFORCEMENT AND PROVIDING GUIDELINES OF PRIORITIES ACROSS THE STATE.

WATER PATROL. BOATING ACCIDENTS REGARDLESS OF THE SEVERITY UP TO FATAL. SEARCH AND RESCUE MISSIONS ON AND OFF SHORE. BOATING DETAILS AND BOATING UNDER THE INFLUENCE DETAILS. ACTIVITIES OF THE BOATING AND WATERWAY SECTION TO HELP REGULATE BOATING ZONES, SPEED ZONES, AND OTHER RESTRICTED ZONES AND HUNTING AND FISHING REGULATION ENFORCEMENT. OKAY.

ENFORCEMENT AND AUTHORITY. BRIEFLY OVER AUTHORITY.

WE START TO GET INTO SPECIFICALLY THE FORT PIERCE AREA. THIS CHAPTER TO INCLUDE CHAPTER 328 SHALL BE ENFORCED BY FWC, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENTS, MUNICIPAL

[00:05:03]

ANY AGENCY, LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY UNDER FLORIDA STATUTE THAT HAS JURISDICTION OF THE WATERS CAN ENFORCE ANY BOATING SAFETY LAW IT IS THEY DEEM IT A PRIORITY FOR THEIR TEAM TO DO SO. ALLOWS THEM TO INSPECT REQUIRED SAFETY INSPECTION EQUIPMENT THAT WE WILL GET TO SHORTLY.

ANY LAW. FLORIDA STATUTE VIOLATION OBSERVED. AND ALSO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE PARTICIPATING IN A HIGHLY REGULATED ACTIVITY.

FISHING, HUNTING, ANYTHING ON THE WATER THAT GIVES THEM INSPECTION AUTHORITY TO STOP THAT VESSEL AND INSPECT THEM.

NOW IF ONE CAVEAT WE GET INTO THE SAFETY DECALS IN A SECOND.

IF THE VESSEL SHOWS THE SAFETY INSPECTION DECAL, THEY CAN'T BE STOPPED JUST FOR BOATING SAFETY INSPECTIONS.

IT HAS TO BE -- THEY HAVE TO BE COMMITTING A VIOLATION AND HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE TO DO THE STOP OR BELIEVE TO BE HUNTING OR FISHING ON THE WATERS OF THE STATE. THIS IS JUST THE STATUTE URT THAT PROVIDES INSPECTION AUTHORITY FOR JUST BASIC VESSEL SAFETY EQUIPMENT. I WON'T GET INTO THE DETAILS, BUT ROUGHLY SOME OF THE ITEMS WE LOOK FOR DURING A VESSEL SAFETY STOP. BOATING UNDER THE INFLUENCE.

SIMILAR TO DUI. SIMILAR PENALTIES.

LICENSE CAVEAT. WE CAN'T TOUCH THEIR DRIVER LICENSE JUST FOR THEIR ARREST. SUBSEQUENT REFUSALS BUT A BIG STATUTE A PRIORITY ON THE WATER GETTING IMPAIRED BOATERS OFF THE WATER. BOATING RESTRICTED ZONES.

I WILL SPEND A LITTLE TIME HERE BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT I THINK FOR THIS GROUP. BOATER RESTRICTED AREAS MAY BE ESTABLISHED ON THE WATERS OF THE STATE FOR ANY PURPOSE NEGLECTS TO PROTECT THE SAFETY OF THE PUBLIC IF SUCH RESTRICTIONS ARE NECESSARY BASE ON BOATING ACTIVITIES, VISIBILITY, HAZARDS, CURRENTS OR WATER LEVELS, VESSEL CONGESTION OR OTHER NAVIGATIONAL HAZARDS, THE COMMISSION MAY HAVE BOATING RESTRICTED AREAS.

I KNOW WE HAVE SOME IN THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE.

BOATING AND WATERWAY SECTION. ANY ISSUES WITHIN THE CITY THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED WE FEEL LIKE THERE IS A ZONE TO INCREASE PUBLIC SAFETY OR REGULATE BOATING ACTIVITY, A BOATING AND WATERWAYS TEAM TO COLLABORATE WITH THE CITY, THE COUNTY OR WHOEVER IS SEEKING TO ESTABLISH THAT ZONE AND MAKE SURE THE CRITERIA IS MET. MUNICIPALITIES AND COUNTIES HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH THE FOLLOWING BOATING RESTRICTED AREAS BY ORDINANCE AFTER FWC APPROVAL.

AND ALSO GIVES GUIDANCE FOR ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS IF ANYBODY VIOLATES THESE ZONES. CURRENTLY A LOT OF MANATEE ZONES BEEN THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE AND OTHER SPEED RESTRICTED ZONES THAT HELP MANAGE VESSEL ACTIVITY.

AND LIEUTENANT ROGERSON WILL TOUCH ON THOSE BRIEFLY LATER IN THE PRESENTATION. MARINE SANITATION EQUIPMENT.

THIS IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT ONE. WE HAVE A LOT OF VESSELS T THAT MOOR AND ANCHOR IN THE CITY LIMITS ON THE WATERWAYS.

BRIEFLY WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE TO HELP MANAGE WASTE BEING PUT IN OUR STATE WATERS UNDER THE JURISDICTION.

VESSELS 26 FEET OR LONGER WITH BERTHING FACILITIES WHICH IS HOUSING FACILITIES WITHIN A VESSEL SHALL BE EQUIPPED WITH A WORKING TOILET OR MARINE SANITATION DEVICE.

PROPERLY INSTALLED MUST MEET U.S. COAST GUARD CERTIFICATION.

HOUSEBOATS AND FLOATING STRUCTURES INCLUDED WHEN BOATING FACILITIES ARE PRESENT REGARDLESS OF THEIR LENGTH.

RAW SEWAGE SHALL NOT BE DISCHARGED IN THE FLORIDA WATERS. SYSTEMS SHOULD BE LOCKED AND DISCHARGED TO PREVENT DISCHARGE INTO STATE WATERS.

AND DISPOSED OF A PUMP OUT OR WASTE FACILITY LIKE WE HAVE HERE IN OUR MARINAS. NONE OF -- NONE OF OUR OFFICERS CAN BOARD A VESSEL WITHOUT HAVING THE OWNER VESSEL ON BOARD. IN A NUTSHELL, WE GO TO DO RANDOM INSPECTIONS, IF THE OWNER IS ON, WE INSPECT THAT MARINE SANITATION DEVICE TO MAKE SURE IT IS LOCKED SECURELY AND HELPS DETER SEWAGE BEING PUMPED INTO THE WATER.

IF SEWAGE IS DUMPED INTO THE WATER, IF WE -- NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER VIOLATION OF LAW. WE HAVE TO HAVE EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT. WE DO HAVE THE MEANS TO PROSECUTE ANY -- AGAIN, ANY AGENCY THAT HAS JURISDICTION IN THE AREA CAN DO THIS INSPECTION. ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR ON MSDS.

BRIEFLY WE WILL TOUCH ON MOORED VESSELS.

ANCHORING AND MOORING. THIS IS THE BRIEF OVERVIEW OF

[00:10:04]

THE OWNER OR OPERATOR OF A FLOATING STRUCTURE WILL NOT ANCHOR IF A VESSEL OF A FLOATING STRUCTURE IS WITHIN 100 FEET OF PUBLIC OR PRIVATE MARINA, BOAT RAMP, BOAT YARD OR ANY OTHER PUBLIC LAUNCHING OR LOADING FACILITY.

500 FEET OF A SUPER YACHT REPAIR FACILITY OR 100 FEET OR OUTWARD FROM THE BOUNDARY OF A PUBLIC MOORING FIELD.

THAT KIND OF REGULATES OUR BOATING PUBLIC THAT THEY CAN'T ANCHOR ANYWHERE THEY WANT TO AND IMPEDE THE USE OF THE WATERWAY BY PUBLIC BOATERS. BASIC VESSEL TITLE, REGISTRATION AND REQUIREMENTS. THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT DEEMS DERELICT VESSELS SHORTLY THAT WE WILL GET INTO.

AND I WILL TOUCH BRIEFLY ON VESSEL TITLE AND REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE CAPTAIN YETTER'S POINTS WILL PLAY OFF THOSE ELEMENTS. SO IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, ALL POWERED VESSELS MUST BE TITLED. ALL POWERED VESSELS MUST BE REGISTERED IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA UNLESS EXEMPTIONS APPLY AND THERE IS A LIST OF THEM. TITLE TRANSFERS WITHIN 30 DAYS.

WE SEE THIS IN DERELICT WHEN THEY GET RID OF A LEMON VESSEL THAT WILL COST THEM A LOT OF MONEY TO GET RID OF.

WE LOOK HEAVILY AT THAT 30-DAY TRANSFER THAT KEEPS ACCOUNTABLE THAT THE ORIGINAL PERSON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

ALL POWERED VESSELS MUST DISPLAY A VALID REGISTRATION STICKER NEXT TO THE REGISTRATION NUMBERS, AND THE OPERATOR MUST HAVE A REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE IN THEIR POSSESSION.

THESE ARE ALL ELEMENTS THAT KEEP US -- HELP TO REALLY ASSESS THE HEALTH OF THE VESSEL ON THE WATERWAYS AND START IDENTIFY THE ONES STICKING OUT AND CAUSE US PROBLEMS AND CAUSE OUR LOCAL BOATING PUBLIC ISSUES DOWN THE ROAD WITH THE DERELICT VESSEL AND AT RISK. OPERATION OF REGISTERED VESSELS.

AGAIN, EVERY VESSEL MUST BE REGISTERED AND NUMBERED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF PURCHASE AND MUST HAVE THE REGISTRATION NUMBERS AND DECALS AND CERTIFICATES ON BOARD AND DISPLAYED AND HERE IS THE SPECIFIC ELEMENTS. I WON'T GET INTO THE DETAILS, BUT THINGS WE NEED TO KNOW THEY HAVE GOT TO BE REGISTERED AND SHOW IT. I AM GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO CAPTAIN JAMES YETTER. HE WILL TOUCH ON BRIEFLY WATERWAY COLLABORATION AND HOW WE WORK WITH OTHER AGENCIES TO

ACCOMPLISH THE OVERALL MISSION. >> GOOD MORNING, CACHE COMMISSIONERS. I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU A BRIEF OVERVIEW HOW WE WOULD, WITH OUR PARTNERS, THE COAST GUARD, THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, FORT PIERCE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND EVEN BORDER PATROL IN THIS AREA.

ALL OUR DIFFERENT AGENCIES, WE DO BOATING SAFETY ENFORCEMENT MAKING SURE PEOPLE ARE SAFE ON THE WATER.

WE ARE THE POINT WHEN IF COMES TO BOATING ACCIDENT INVESTIGATIONS. WE REALLY PRIORITIZE BUI ENFORCEMENT AND MAINTAINING THAT PRESENCE, BUT WHENEVER IT COMES TO THE HOLIDAY WEEKENDS OR THE SUMMER WEEKENDS, WE ALL COLLABORATE AND DO BOATING SAFETY REGARDLESS OF FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL. UNITED STATES COAST GUARD, THEY PRIORITIZE PROTECTION OF PROPERTY AND LIFE -- OR LIFE AND PROPERTY. GOT THAT BACKWARDS.

THEY ARE THE POINT, AND THEY ARE THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS WHEN IT COMES TO SEARCH AND RESCUES OFFSHORE AND ANY NAVIGABLE WATERWAY THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE IN.

LIKE I SAID, WE ARE PRIMARY FOR ACCIDENT INVESTIGATIONS.

THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH EXCLUSIVELY BOATING SAFETY, BUT A LOT OF TIMES WE WILL WORK WITH THEM AS WELL.

WE WORK WITH THEM IN PALM BEACH WITH DERELICT VESSEL MISSION AND COLLABORATE TO GET VESSELS OFF OF THE WATER.

SAME THING WITH MARTIN COUNTY. THEY HAVE A VERY AGGRESSIVE DERELICT VESSEL PROGRAM AND WE GET THAT -- THOSE PROBLEMS OFF THE WATER VERY EFFICIENTLY. THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WITH LOCAL ORDINANCES AND ZONES THAT THEY HAVE AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE THAT WE DON'T. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE BUSY W WEEKENDS.

WE ALL COLLABORATE AND WORK TOGETHER ON THEM.

ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR OF HOW WE FUNCTION TOGETHER?

>>MAYOR: ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR? NO, NOT SO FAR.

>> ALL RIGHT, DERELICT AND AT-RISK VESSELS.

DERELICT VESSELS, THERE ARE THREE -- THREE CONDITIONS THAT WOULD DEEM A VESSEL DERELICT. NUMBER ONE, IF IT IS WRECKED.

ON THE ROCKS. IT CRASHED.

IT IS SHIPWRECKED OR LAYING ON ITS SIDE.

THAT IS A CONDITION FOR US TO DEEM A VESSEL DERELICT.

[00:15:04]

NO VALUE ON THE VESSEL OR ANYTHING ON BOARD THE VESSEL.

PRETTY MUCH JUST A HULL. AND THREE, AND THIS THE BIG ONE THAT WE REALLY USE TO DETERMINE A VESSEL IS DERELICT VERSUS AT RISK IS IT BEING SUBSTANTIALLY DISMANTLED.

THE HULL IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE RUDDER OR THE RUDDER IS EASED UP WITH GROWTH THAT IT CAN'T FUNCTIONAL ALL.

P PROPULSION.

DOESN'T HAVE A SAIL OR A WAY TO MKE WAY.

A COMPROMISED HULL. THERE IS A HOLE IN THE SIDE.

IT IS COMPROMISED. THAT IS PRETTY MUCH THE DEFINING ELEMENT WE USE FOR DERELICT VESSELS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE ON THE LINE. AT-RISK VESSEL THAT HAVEN'T GONE DERELICT YET AND MOVES THAT DIRECTION.

THE WAY WE ENFORCE THAT IS ISSUE CITATIONS BASED ON ELEMENTS OF AT-RISK AND START OFF WITH THE VESSELS OPEN TO THE ELEMENT.

THE PORT HOLES ARE COMPROMISED OR THE WINDOWS ARE CRACKED.

OR THE HATCH IS OPEN. AND WEATHER.

AND BIRDS, WHATEVER, CREATURES ARE ABLE TO GET INTO THAT VESSEL. IF IT HAS BROKEN LOOSE FROM ITS MOORING OR IN DANGER OF BREAKING LOOSE, ANOTHER CONDITION OF AT-RISK. ENDANGER OF BREAKING LOSE, THE ANCHOR LINE IS CHAFFING, FILING DOWN, ANCHORED AGAINST THE BOAT.

ABOUT TO BREAK LOOSE. WE CAN ISSUE A CITATION OF IT BEING AT RISK. STORED ON GROUND, SITTING ON THE BOTTOM OR UNATTENDED, OBVIOUSLY UNATTENDED AND HAVEN'T BEEN MAINTAINED IN ANY WAY, THAT IS A CONDITION.

EFFECTIVE MEANS OF PROPULSION FOR SAFE NAVIGATION.

THIS IS KIND OF A NEWER ONE WHERE YOU HAVE A MOTOR ON IT, BUT IT IS NOT ABLE TO SAFELY AND A HALF GAIT THAT BOAT.

SO YOU HAVE A EIGHT HOURS POWER UPPER MOTOR ON A 40-FOOT SAILBOAT WITH ALL KIND OF GROWTH AND NO WAY YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CONTROL THAT BOAT AND SAFELY NAVIGATE IT.

THAT IS ANOTHER CONDITION. THE LAST ONE IS, IT IS TAKING ON WATER AND HAVE NO MEANS TO DEWATER.

SO THERE IS WATER IN THE BILGE. STARTING TO LIST A LITTLE BIT.

IT CAN'T BE WATER ITSELF. AND -- LET'S SEE.

DID WE HIT EVERYTHING ON THAT? OUR OPTIONS FOR AT-RISK IS ISSUING CITATIONS AND THEY COMPOUND.

IF WE ISSUE A CITATION AND WE COME BACK AND IT HAVEN'T BEEN CORRECTED WE CAN ISSUE ANOTHER CITATION FOR THE SAME VIOLATION.

AS IT PROGRESS IT IS COMPOUNDS IN THE CHARGES AND WE GET A LITTLE BIT MORE TEETH. AGAIN, THAT IS IN ORDER FOR US TO GET THAT THING OFF THE WATER BEFORE IT GETS TO A DERELICT COND CONDITION.

ONCE WE DEEM A VESSEL DES LIQUIDITY.

WE NEED TO DO AN INVESTIGATION. ONCE WE FIND OUT WHO THE OWNER IT, WE SEND A NOTIFICATION OF RIGHTS PACKET AND LET THEM KNOW THEIR VESSEL IS DERELICT ON THE WATERS OF THE STATE, AND THEY NEED TO EITHER REQUEST A HEARING.

THAT IS THE WAY TO DETERMINE IT IS DERELICT.

BUT THEY HAVE 21 DAYS TO FILE FOR THAT HEARING AND AFTER THAT 21-DAY PERIOD, AFTER WE ISSUE THAT NOTIFICATION OF RIGHTS PACKET, WE TAG THE VESSEL AND LABEL IT AND PUT A STICKER ON IT AND STARTS THE 21-DAY CLOCK FOR THEM TO GO THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS. IF THEY HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS, AFTER IS THAT 21 DAYS, WE GO THROUGH THAT LEGAL PROCESS TO GET IT REMOVED FROM THE WATER AND LIEUTENANT ROGERSON WILL GO INTO DETAIL HOW WE GO ABOUT AFTER THAT.

DO YOU ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF DERELICT OR AT-RISK VESSELS?

>>MAYOR: YES, ANY? NO, GOOD.

THANK YOU, SIR. >> GOOD MORNING.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING.

SEE IF I CAN MAKE THIS WORK. WHICH ADVANCES THE SLIDE? HEY, THERE WE GO. IT WORKED.

SO THIS IS -- THIS IS THE OUTLIVEN OF THE CITY LIMITS.

I WAS HOPING FOR A POINTER WHERE I CAN ACTUALLY POINT YOU WHERE WE HAVE CURRENTLY FIVE VESSELS THAT ARE ALMOST DERELICT.

AND WHERE THEY ARE ACTUALLY LOCATED IN THAT -- IN THAT MAP.

[00:20:05]

SO LET ME JUST GO TO. >>MAYOR HUDSON: EXCUSE ME.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THE MOUSE CURSOR MIGHT DO IT.

MAYBE? >> OH, THE MOUSE WORKS, EXCELLENT. TECHNOLOGY.

GOOD DEAL. >>MAYOR HUDSON: IT MAY REACH -- YEAH, IT IS MOVING, YEP. IT THANK YOU, KEV.

>> YOU SEE THE MOUSE. HARBOR ISLES.

SEAWAY DRIVE, HARBOR ISLES. YOU SEE -- WAKE UP.

ONE BOAT ROUGHLY THERE. ONE -- A LITTLE BIT FURTHER EAST AND ONE IN THE WATERWAY RIGHT THERE.

THE FIRST THREE RIGHT THERE. SO -- LET'S SEE IF THAT WORKS.

THERE IS ONE RIGHT THERE. THAT IS OBVIOUSLY HARBOR ISLES.

THAT GENTLEMAN IS THE OWNER, HE BELIEVE -- WE BELIEVE THE OWNER IS IN THE BAHAMAS. AND WE ALSO BELIEVE POSSIBLY THAT HE HAS NO INTENTION OF RETURNING AND TAKING CARE OF THIS ISSUE. SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE AT WITH THAT ONE. AND ALL THESE VESSELS ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION. WE CONTINUE TO GET LEADS.

WE GET THINGS FROM THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE IN THE CITY, AND THEN WE MOVE FORWARD. BUT NOT AN OVERNIGHT THING TO PUT A VEHICLE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND GET IT TOWED.

THAT WILL BE WONDERFUL. THE DERELICT VESSEL, YOU ARE REMOVING IT FROM THE INDIVIDUAL AND IT TAKES A PROCESS SO THAT EVERY STEP IS MET. NUMBER ONE.

THIS IS LITTLE BIT FURTHER EAST. AND THE FIRST ONE -- ACTUALLY THIS ONE HERE WAS PUT IN THAT POSITION DURING THE HURRICANES BUT IT WAS ACTUALLY DERELICT PRIOR TO THE HURRICANES.

IT WAS ACTUALLY FACING STRAIGHT NORTH AND THE HURRICANES INCREASED IT. THIS ONE HERE ACTUALLY, I BELIEVE, IAN -- I THINK THIS ONE WAS PLACED THERE BY IAN.

AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PICTURE RIGHT THERE, THAT LITTLE STICKER RIGHT THERE IF YOU CAN SEE THE ORANGE STICKER.

THAT IS WELL ON THE PROCESS. ACTUALLY THAT INDIVIDUAL RIGHT THERE IN THE HOSPITAL. AND HE HAS BEEN GIVEN THE RIGHTS PACKAGE. WE JUST WAITING FOR HIM TO GET WELL TO SIGN IT, GET IT NOTARIZED, GET IT BACK TO US.

THAT ONE HOPEFULLY WILL HAVE A RELOCATION QUICKLY, HOPEFULLY.

THIS ONE HERE IS DIRECTLY A ACROSS.

THAT ONE THERE IS RIGHT HERE GIVE OR TAKE.

AND THAT INDIVIDUAL TRACKED HIM DOWN TO NORTH CAROLINA AND HE HAS NO INTENTION TO COME BACK AND TAKE CARE OF THE VOTE.

MORE THAN LIKELY BE A DERELICT VESSEL AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS ON THAT ONE. AS WE SAID, DISPLACED BY NICOLE.

THIS VESSEL RIGHT HERE JUST NORTH OF THE WEST SIDE OF WEST LAKE ISLAND AND THIS VESSEL THAT YOU SEE IS RIGHT THERE ON THE OUTSIDE THE HARBOR TUNNEL MARINA.

THIS GUY HERE. WE KNOW WHO HE IS.

WE KNOW WHERE HE IS AT. WE JUST NEED TO GIVE HIM THE RIGHTS PACKAGE SO THAT HE CAN SIGN THAT OVER.

AND THERE WILL BE OTHER CHARGES I THINK -- HE DIDN'T REGISTER IT WITHIN 30 DAYS AND CHANGED OWNERSHIP AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE ARE WORKING ON WITH THAT INDIVIDUAL.

THIS IS THE NEXT ONE HERE. THIS IS NEW ONE.

THE LAST ONE THAT WE HAVE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS THAT WE KNOW OF.

THIS INDIVIDUAL WE STILL DON'T KNOW TO THE ACTUAL OWNER IS.

SO WITH THAT BEING SAID IF WE ARE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT AND DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE, WE WILL DECLARE IT DERELICT AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS -- BECAUSE WE HAVE NO WAY TO SEND A NOTIFICATION PACKAGE. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE HE LIVES.

WE WILL SEND THE PACKET TO THE LAST KNOWN ADDRESS OR THE OWNER OF THE VESSEL. THAT PERSON MAY COME BACK, HEY, I HAVEN'T HAD THAT BOAT IN MY NAME FOR 15 YEARS AND WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE AND THAT USUALLY HAPPENS.

THAT ONE THERE WILL DEFINITELY BE -- AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY DISPLACED BY IAN IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN ALSO.

THAT IS THE STATUS WITHIN THE CITY ON DERELICT AND TIS PLACED

[00:25:08]

NOBODY TOLD ME THAT. MY NECK IS HURTING.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU ARE DOING FINE.

>> TALK ABOUT MANATEE ZONES. AS YOU KNOW THE CITY HAS A SEASONAL ZONE BETWEEN THE NORTH BRIDGE, THROUGH THE SOUTH BRIDGE AND ALL THE WAY TO THE 189 WHICH SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. ALMOST A TWO-MILE ZONE RIGHT THERE AND THE LOWER CUT RIGHT THERE.

THE SHARP CUT. SEASONAL ZONES NOVEMBER 18 TO APRIL 30. CURRENTLY IN EFFECT AND BEING ENFORCED. THEN WE HAVE THE ZONE OBVIOUSLY RIGHT HERE THAT YOU GUYS KNOW IS ALWAYS IDLE AND ANYTHING EAST OF THE CHANNEL IS ALWAYS SLOW. JAYCEE PARK, RIGHT HERE, IS A SPECIAL ZONE THAT CAME UP I BELIEVE TWO YEARS AGO, I BELIEVE, THAT YOU GUYS KNEW WAS NECESSARY TO KEEP PEOPLE WITH JAYCEE PARK UNDER CONTROL AND A 500-FEET BUFFER.

AND HERE FROM THE CITY LIMITS, OTHER ZONES DOWN HERE.

BUT THAT'S ALL I HAVE. ANY QUESTIONS?

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: YES, I DO.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY, SO COMMISSIONER C. JOHNSON, J.

JOHNSON AND COMMISSIONER BRODERICK.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THANK YOU, MADAM MAYOR.

BACK TO THE BOATS THAT WERE DISPLACED DURING TO THE HURRICANE, PER SE. THEY WERE ANCHORED.

NOT DOWN THERE AND STRAPPED AND IN THE AREA OF VIN ESSENTIAL TEE AND PUSHED INTO THE AREAS. IS THAT THE POINT IN CASE?

>> YES. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: SO TALK TO ME ABOUT THE PROCESS OF REMOVAL OF VESSELS AFTER YOU HAVE CLEARED ALL THE HURDLES, ETC., ETC.

>> ONCE THE NOTICE IS SENT AND WE KNOW THAT NOTHING WILL HAPPEN TO THAT INDIVIDUAL AND IT WILL BE DERELICT, WHAT WE DO IS THERE IS A REMOVAL FORM THAT WE HAVE. AND CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, WE SEND IT TO THE COUNTY. MATT BOND USED TO BE OUR CONTACT. I BELIEVE THAT IS THE DIRECT PERSON AND THE COUNTY GOES IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING FUNDS FOR REMOVAL. AS FAR AS ANOTHER COUNTY WILL APPLY TO BOATING AND WATERWAYS FOR REIMBURSEMENT.

I AM NOT SURE IF THAT IS ONE DOLLAR TO ONE DOLLAR OR THE 75, WHATEVER THAT IS. ONE TIME, A YOUNG LADY I BELIEVE ON THE SECOND FLOOR THAT ACTUALLY WROTE GRANTS.

AND WHENEVER A VESSEL WAS WITHIN THE CITY -- DO YOU REMEMBER WHO

THAT WAS? >>NICHOLAS MIMMS: LIBBY

WOODRUFF. >> SHE WROTE THE GRANTS WITHIN THE CITY AND I DEALT WITH HER BEFORE SHE RETIRED.

LIBBY, YES, THANK YOU. I COULDN'T REMEMBER THAT NAME.

SHE DID THAT PROCESS WITHIN THE CITY.

NOW -- FOR WHATEVER REASON, WE LOST, YOU KNOW, OUR AVENUE TO THE CITY. SO NOW WE JUST GO STRAIGHT TO THE COUNTY. AND OF THE COUNTY HAS BEEN VERY GOOD TO US. THEY GET THE MONEY -- THEY HAVE A REMOVAL FUND, SO TO SPEAK, A SLUSH FUND, PETTY CASH OR WHATEVER, THEY WAY THE CONTRACTOR AND IT GETS DESTROYED AT THE LANDFILL AND THEY SUBMIT FOR REIMBURSEMENT.

THE PROCESS IS FAIRLY WELL OILED.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: IS THE OWNER TAXED OR LIENED OR WHATEVER, BASE ON THAT PROCESS. MONEY SPENT.

THE COUNTY IS SPENDING MONEY TO GET THE BOAT REMOVED.

IS THAT COST PASSED ON TO THE BOAT OWN THEIR YOU IDENTIFIED.

>> IF WE CAN'T IDENTIFY THE BOAT OWNER.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THAT YOU CAN'T, BUT IF YOU DO IDENTIFY -- LIKE THIS GUY IN THE BAHAMAS OBVIOUSLY.

YOU KNOW WHO HE IS. HE DOESN'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS.

HE WILL ALLOW US TO TAKE CARE OF HIS PROBLEM.

WE ARE PAYING FOR IT OUT OF COUNTY FUNDS.

DO WE GO AFTER THAT PERSON THAT OWNS THAT BOAT THAT IS JUST LEAVING IT TO DO WHATEVER? DO WE --

>> WE GO AFTER HIM. AND IF THEY DON'T, YOU KNOW, REIMBURSE FOR THE REMOVAL OF THAT VESSEL, THEN THE ONLY RECOURSE THAT WE HAVE IS TO FREEZE THEIR REGISTRATION SO THEY CAN'T GET ANY VEHICLE, VESSEL REGISTERED IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA UNTIL THEY CORRECT IT.

THAT IS ALL THE TEETH WE HAVE AS FAR AS GETTING THEM TO PAY.

CAN'T SEND IT TO COLLECTION OR ANYTHING AT THAT LEVEL, AND SEND

THEM A BILL. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: FROM A TAXPAYER LISTENING TO THIS PARTICULARLY OUT OF OUR COUNTY TAXES, WE ARE PAYING FOR SOMETHING HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ACTUAL ENTITY THAT GOES IN TO REMOVE IT, GET THE CONTRACT T REMOVE IT, WHATEVER THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IT IS.

CAN YOU GIVE A BALLPARK WHAT IT COSTS TO REMOVE THESE VESSELS

FROM THE WATER? >> I CAN ANSWER THAT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: JUST A BALLPARK.

>> ALL DETERMINED WITH THE SIZE OF THE VESSEL.

[00:30:03]

FROM $1500 ON JUST A BASIC CONTRACTOR CALL OUT TO SOMETIMES UP IN THE $25,000 RANGE DEPENDING.

BUT I WOULD SAY THE MAJORITY THAT WE SEE IN ICW FROM THE COAST $8,000 TO THE $12,000 MONTH IN THERE.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: WOW.

>> ENFORCEMENT ON THE FRONT END. AT-RISK VESSELS PUTTING EMPHASIS ON ENGAGING VESSEL ORDERS BEFORE IT GETS TO THE DV STATE.

IT HAS TAKEN A LOT OF TIME TO GET THERE BY THE TIME THE OWNER GETS THE DV. AND IT IS LIMITED AND TAXPAYER WILL BE STUCK WITH THE BILL. AND THE CHANCE WE JUST SPOKE ON OF THEM PAYING BACK THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AND THAT IS J THE VESSEL WAS THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY MONEY. FRONT END AT RISK WHEN THE VESSEL IS STILL FLOATING, ACTIVE ENFORCEMENT AND GET OUR PARTNERS

TO ENFORCE AS WELL. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: LAST QUESTION, MADAM MAYOR, THE OWNERS LEFT IT IN THE WATER KNOWING THAT A HURRICANE WAS COMING.

DO WE HAVE AN ACTIVE PROGRAM TO WORK WITH BOATERS.

I UNDERSTAND MARINAS HAVE TIE-DOWNS AND TRY TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN. BUT HURRICANES DO WHATM DO AND QUESTION SEEN WHAT THEY DO ■IS MOVE BOATS.

IN CASE IT LOOKS LIKE THEY COLLECTED TO PUT THEM NEAR AN ISLAND STRUCTURE, BARRIER ISLAND AND THEY ENDED UP INTO THE WOODS AT THAT POINT. OBVIOUSLY IF THE HURRICANE WANT SURGE, THE BOATS WOULD BE SIT ON THE WATER AND GO FROM THERE.

DO WE HAVE ANY KIND OF PROGRAM DURING HURRICANE SEASON PARTICULARLY IF STORMS ARE APPROACHING OUR LAND TO HELP GIVE BEST GUIDANCE AS BEST WE CAN TO PARK THESE THINGS?

>> QUESTION SOME GUIDELINES ON THE FRONT END OF HOW TO MOOR YOUR VESSEL, WHERE TO PUT IT. AS FAR AS -- WE USE HURRICANE EVEN IAN AS AN EXAMPLE. SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE STATE.

ALMOST JUST AS HEAVY AS WE ARE ON A BOAT THAT CREATED DV ISSUES IN BREVARD AND VOLUSIA COUNTY. MOVING THE VESSELS A LOT OF TIME IS OUT OF THE QUESTION WITHIN THAT FOUR TO FIVE-DAY WINDOW WITH THE HURRICANE COMING TO THE STATE OF FLORIDA.

ON THE BACK LEVEL, HURRICANE HITS THE STATE OF FLORIDA, CRITERIA FOR VESSELS CAUSED TO BE DV BECAUSE OF THE HURRICANE.

AND WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO PULL THE VESSELS OUT WITH STATE FUNDING AS LONG AS THE OWNER ALSO TURN THE TITLE OVER AND WE SURPASS THE DV PROCESS. THAT IS ON THE BACK ENDS.

FRONT END, MORE GUIDELINES AS FAR AS BEST PRACTICES.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION.

VERY GOOD INFORMATION. PART OF THE REASON YOU ARE HERE TODAY EDUCATE US AND TALK OF MOORING FIELDS.

TO ME SPECIFICALLY, I WANT TO GO TO THE AREAS YOU ALREADY PINPOINTED WITH THESE VESSELS. WHEN I SEE THEM STARTING TO BE IN DISREPAIR OR YOU ARE STARTING TO IDENTIFY WITH A PROACTIVE PROGRAM, BUT THESE VESSELS YOU HAVE IN THE PICTURES ARE AT A POINT WHERE THEY ARE TAKING ON WATER.

THEY ARE OVERTURED. THEY ARE UP IN THE MANGROVES.

I AM ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS.

I WORRY ABOUT WHAT KIND OF WASTE IS ON THE VESSEL ITSELF.

AND, OF COURSE, THE FUEL. SO WHEN WE HAVE PENDING EVENTS LIKE A HURRICANE OR WE JUST SEE THE VESSEL START FALL APART, DO WE HAVE ANYTHING THAT WE HAVE IN THE ENFORCEMENT SIDE TO LEGALLY -- YOU SAID -- YOU SAID THE OWNER HAS TO BE THERE TO BOARD FOR THE MSD PROGRAM, BUT IS THERE ANY WAY TOO -- TO TRY TO CIRCUMVENT OR GET TO A POINT OF LATITUDE WHERE YOU CAN GET RID OF THE FUEL, FOR INSTANCE? IS THERE ANY WAY TO --

>> WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT SET UP YET.

AT-RISK. >>MAYOR HUDSON: CLOSER TO

THE MIC, PLEASE. >> AT-RISK PROGRAM IS A NEW PROGRAM. AND OUR WHOLE STATE IS DEALING

WITH THIS PROBLEM. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON:

ABSOLUTELY. >> DOWN SOUTH, MONROE COUNTY.

THEY HAVE HUNDREDS OF DERELICT VESSELS.

AND WE ARE SLOWLY EVOLVING THIS PROGRAM FROM YEAR TO YEAR.

WE DIDN'T HAVE THE AT-RISK TOOLS WE HAD AS ENFORCEMENT FIVE YEARS AGO. THAT -- THAT IS A NEW TOOL WE HAVE TO TRY TO STAY AHEAD OF IT AND TRY TO GET OUT THERE AND ISSUE A CITATION BEFORE WE GET TO A DERELICT CONDITION.

THEY ARE CONTINUING TO EVOLVE THIS PROGRAM.

AS FAR AS THE FUNDING TO REMOVE THEM, WHAT WAS IT, FIVE YEARS AGO, THE STATE BUDGET FOR REMOVAL WAS, LIKE, $2 MILLION.

AND THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, IT WAS RECOGNIZED IN TALLAHASSEE AS AN ISSUE. AND THEY -- MULTIPLIED THAT -- I THINK WE HAVE -- $20 MILLION BUDGET NOW FOR DERELICT VESSELS TO GET THEM REMOVED FROM THE WATER, SO WE ARE NOT ALL THE WAY

[00:35:01]

ANYTHING SET UP FOR THAT YET. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: BUT WE ARE GET THERE. BUT WITH THE PROGRAM ITSELF.

SO US AS A PARTNER CITY OF FORT PIERCE AND US THINKING OF WHAT WE CAN TO DO HELP YOU. I WANT TO MOVE INTO THE WORLD OF -- I DID A LOT OF RESEARCH THIS WEEKEND ON MOORING FIELDS.

ONE OF YOU TALKED OF MARTIN COUNTY, A AGGRESSIVE PROGRAM AND A GREAT FROG AND DIFFERENT FIELDS WITHIN THEIR JURISDICTION. HOW MANY, IF ANY, IDENTIFIED IN ST. LUCIE AND FORT PIERCE AREA. WE HAVE ONE, RIGHT?

>> ONE MOORING FIELD. AND THAT WAS RIGHTS -- RIGHT THERE. CAUSEWAY COVE.

THE ONLY PERMITTED MOORING FIELD IN ST. LUCY COUNTY.

>> WITH THE IDENTIFICATION AND THE PROSPECT OF THE MOORING FIELD, DOES IT HELP THE PROCESS AND THE AT-RISK.

THERE IS OTHER CONDITIONS FOR THE MOORING FIELD.

I THINK IN THE EARLIER SLIDE, YOU COULD ONLY BE WITHIN 100 FEET OF THE MOORING FIELD. DOES IT HELP THE PROCESS?

>> THE MOORING FIELD. CONTROLS IT BECAUSE IT IS LIKE A RENT, A TENANT. THE TENANT GOES THERE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR CAUSEWAY COVE, I AM SURE THEY WANT INSURANCE AND ALL THE INFORMATION ON THE VESSEL.

NO DIFFERENT THAN IF YOU ARE RENTING A CONDOMINIUM OR AIRBNB, THEY WANT THAT SITUATION. IN THAT REGARD, THE MOORING FIELD IS GREAT BECAUSE YOU CAN CONTROL WHO IS THERE.

YOU KNOW WHO IS THERE. WHEN THEY ARE GOING TO LEAVE.

THERE ONE MONTH. TWO MONTHS.

WHATEVER. FOR WHATEVER REASON, IF THAT VESSEL BECOMES AT RISK AND BREAKS AWAY, THERE IS A WAY TO

TRACK IT. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: HOPES IT IDENTIFY ONCE WE GET TO THE AT-RISK PORTION.

YOU ARE DOING RESEARCH. PD IS DOING RESEARCH OF WHO OWNS THE THINGS. IF WE HAVE A MOORING FIELD.

>> BEFORE I CAME TO JUPITER, I WORKED IN MONROE COUNTY.

THEY HAD BOOT KEY HARBOR AND KEY WEST.

MULTIPLE MOORING FIELDS. THEY ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO PUSH TO GET THINGS BETTER AND BETTER TOOLS.

I CAN AT THAT YOU CAN TO OUR PARTNERS DOWN THERE CAP CAPTAIN DEPRAY SO YOU AREN'T INVENTING THE WHEEL AND GET AHEAD OF IT. BUT I WILL LEAVE MY CONTACT

INFORMATION. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THAT IS PERFECT. SOMETHING THAT -- COMMISSIONERS, I HAVE DONE A LOT OF READING ON IT AND BASED ON THE INFORMATION I AM HEARING TODAY THAT I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO PURSUE.

THE OTHER ASPECT OF THIS IS IDENTIFICATION OF THE VESSEL, THE OWNER, JUST FIGURING OUT WHAT IS HAPPENING.

SO THE OTHER PART OF WHY YOU ARE HERE TODAY IS THE PUBLIC IS REACHED OUT TO A FEW OF US, MANY OF US, ALL OF US, OR JUST COMMUNICATION WITHIN SOCIAL MEDIA, FOR INSTANCE, WHY IN THE WORLD SO MANY SAILBOATS ON THE INLET FROM CAUSEWAY PARK.

AND TURNING ON THE SMITHSONIAN AND GOING OUT THE INLET.

YEARS AGO WE HAD AN ORDINANCE IN THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE THAT YOU

COULD NOT MOOR LONGER THAN 96. >> 72.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: 72. THERE YOU GO.

CONSIDERED INAPPROPRIATE AND ILLEGAL AND HAD TO REMOVE THAT FROM THE STATE LEGISLATURE. THAT IS FINE.

ANOTHER CREATIVE WAY TO COME UP WITH THE CHALLENGE.

I WORRY ABOUT THE TWO -- WELL, MULTIPLE THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT, THE WASTE SERVICE OR THE WASTE MANAGEMENT OF WHAT THAT VESSEL OWNER IS DOING AND, OF COURSE, WHEN IT BECOMES DERELICT OF WHAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN. BECAUSE IF THERE ARE FUEL ON THE VESSEL AND I SEE IT FLIPPED OVER ON ITS SIDE, I START TO WORRY B

THAT. >> WHEN IT COMES TO THE WASTE THAT YOU MENTIONED AND MAJOR MENTION IT TOO.

YOU CAN PROVIDE A PUMP-OUT SERVICE TO THEM AND GIVES A LOT MORE TEETH TO ENFORCE -- ENFORCE THE DUMPING AND THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE WITH IT. I BELIEVE MONROE COUNTY, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PUMP OUT YOUR VESSEL -- REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOUR IN THE COUNTY -- I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT IS EVERY TEN DAY OR WHATEVER, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PUMP OUT STICKER THAT SHOW YOU ARE UP TO DATE. I KNOW YOU ARE NOT MONROE COUNTY OR THE FLORIDA KEYS, THERE ARE PROBLEMS THAT THEY ALREADY ARE

ROLLING ON. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: WE ARE A COASTAL COMMUNITY AND VERY BUSY.

IF YOU LOOK THE LAST. >> SO THAT IS -- THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN ON MY MIND AND ON MY HEART.

I SHARE THAT WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS AND I CAN'T CALL THEM ON THE PHONE. I AM TALKING ABOUT IT TODAY.

BUT -- I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT.

SO -- THE OTHER COUNTY YOU MENTIONED MONROE.

THEY HAVE GOT THAT -- IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE IN THE MOORING FIELD OR NOT. THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

>> WHEREVER YOU ARE IN THE COUNTY AND THEY WILL COME.

[00:40:02]

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: INTERESTING.

>> TO PUMP YOU OUT. A LOCAL ORDINANCE --

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SPEAK CLOSER TO THE MIC.

>> A LEAK ORDINANCE THEY ARE ABLE TO ENFORCE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE TEETH OF IT, BUT SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL -- YOU KNOW IF YOUR COASTAL COMMUNITY, YOU HAVE THOSE TOOLS.

>> JUST A LOT OF FOLKS AND I AM A BOATER TOO.

THE FOLKS THAT COME AWAY FROM THEIR OWN PROBLEMS SOMETIMES ARE THE ONES THAT -- THE 1%, THAT WE CREATE THESE RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR. YOU GUYS KNOW FIRST HAND.

SO I JUST APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION, AND I WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH THE CITY TO WORK WITH THE -- YOUR AGENCY AND WHATEVER WE CAN DO. AND WHATEVER WE CAN DO WITH OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT ENFORCEMENT ON THE WATERWAY TO IMPROVE THE -- YOU KNOW, THE INTERACTION OR HELP ENFORCE IT EVEN MORE THAN WHAT WE DO TODAY. ANYTHING THAT YOU SEE WITHIN THE -- BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH A LARGE INLET.

THAT INLET IS TRICKY WHEN THE WEATHER IS GO GETTING A LITTLE ROUGH. ANYTHING WE CAN DO EDUCATION-WISE OR ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO AS A CITY TO HELP YOU IN YOUR JOB, IMPROVE IT? THE FLOOR IS OPEN.

HERE IT IS. >> LOW MAN ON THE TOTEM POLE.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: I AM NOT SAYING WE CAN DO IT BUT DO

OUR BEST. >> I AM NOT 1 MOUNTAIN% IN ON SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT I THINK IF THE CITY OBVIOUSLY HAS A FACEBOOK PAGE OR WHATEVER. YOU CAN PROBABLY PUT IT ON THERE SAYING, HEY, BE RESPONSIBLE. THIS IS WHAT WE -- WELCOME TO THE CITY, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE EXPECT YOU TO DO WHETHER YOU ARE HERE AS A TENANT OR VISITING OR WHATEVER.

UP KNOW CAPTAIN YETTER MENTIONED THE PUMP OUTS.

A GREAT THING TO HAVE. WITH A GRANT -- YOU MAY BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR A GRANT. YOU DON'T NEED A HUGE BOAT, A 22, 23-FOOT BOAT WITH A TANK AND A PUMP.

GO OUT THERE AND SAY ONCE A WEEK, YOU ARE WELCOME TO THE CITY. I WILL BE HERE ON THE 10TH.

WE WILL PUMP YOU OUT WHETHER YOU NEED IT OR NOT.

I THINK THAT WILL BE A GREAT THING.

I THINK AT A VERY SMALL COST AND EVEN IMPROVE THE WATERWAY.

IN THAT REGARD. SO -- BUT I THINK JUST -- PUT IT ON FACEBOOK. AND YOU NKNOW FOR SOCIAL MEDIA JUST TO EDUCATE PEOPLE. I THINK EDUCATION.

WE DO A LOT OF EDUCATION AND WITH MSDS IS A BIG ISSUE OBVIOUSLY. AND WE ARE ABLE TO PARTNER WITH COAST GUARD LAST WEEK AND INSPECTIONS.

EVERYTHING WAS GOOD. THE OLD Y VALVE WHEN THE LAW WAS WRITTEN A Y VALVES AND TWO EYE LETS OVER EACH OTHER AND LOCK THE Y VALVES THAT I SAW ON THE FOUR INCHESES ARE ALMOST LIKE PLUMBING FIXTURES. THEY HAVE THE AIR ROWS.

WHERE THE FLOW IS GOING TO GO. AND THE Y VALVES TO DISCHARGE INTO THE TANK AND NO VIOLATIONS THERE.

WE FUNDS THAT VIOLATION-WISE IS THAT NOT KEEPING OUT OF THE PUMP OUTS. ONE GUY SAID I HAD DON'T PUMP OUT. I ONLY USE IT BETWEEN HERE AND TO THE BAHAMAS OR HERE TO, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.

THAT THE ONLY TIME HE USED THE TANK.

OTHER TIMES I GO TO THE SHORE. SO IT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS, YOU KNOW. EVERY DAY HERE IT GOES.

>> WE CAN ALSO DO TARGETED OPERATIONS WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND SHERIFF'S OFFICE TOO AND JUST GET IT OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE CONDUCTING MSD INSPECTIONS OR CONDUCTED MSD INSPECTIONS AND TARGETED JUST SHORT-TERM FOCUSED EFFORT IN A DESIGNATED AREA OR WHATEVER LT WANTS TO HANDLE

THAT. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: AWESOME. THAT IS ALL I HAVE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: COMMISSIONER BRODERICK.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

ON THE MOORING FIELD DISCUSSION BROUGHT BY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON.

MOORING FIELDS, I WOULD BELIEVE, ARE MOST FREQUENTLY ASSOCIATED WITH SOME TYPE OF MARINE FACILITY, IS THAT CORRECT? WE ARE NOT JUST DROPPING 20 MOORINGSSTS AND SAY HAVE IT.

THEY ARE SAFE MOORINGS. CONNECTED TO THE COVE WHERE THEY HAVE PUMP OUT FACILITIES AND A LUNCH SERVICE AND THAT TYPE OF THING. IS THAT MORE THE NORM?

>> HAVING THE LOGISTICAL SUPPORT OF THAT MOORING FIELD IS ALMOST AS IMPORTANT AS WHERE THE LOCATION IS AT.

I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT REQUIREMENTS WHEN A PROPOSED MOORING FIELD GOES UP AND WHAT -- WHAT THE QUALIFIERS ARE, BUT I WILL RO STRONGLY SAY FROM OUR EXPERIENCE MOST OF THEM HAVE A STRONG SUPPORT SYSTEM LIKE THE MARINA WITH ACCESS TO THE

SHORELINE, PRIVATE ACCESS. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: PRETTY MUCH PRIVATE ENTERPRISE OPERATIONS OR CITY.

[00:45:03]

>> THE MAJORITY THAT ARE LINKED AND WHERE THE ICW GETS NARROWED TOWARD THE NORTH PART OF THE STATE THAT DON'T HAVE THAT DIRECT ACCESS TO A MARINA AND THE MAJORITY OF THEM, THE IDEA IS TO HAVE CLOSE PROXIMITY SO THEY CAN WORK CLOSE TOGETHER AND

SUPPORT TEACH OTHER. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: GOOD TO KNOW IN THE FUTURE WITH THE MARINE DEVELOPMENT, WE MIGHT WANT TO ENCOURAGE THE MOORING EXPANSION AND ADDITIONAL FACILITY. SECOND QUESTION WAS ALSO A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION RELATIVE TO AN ABANDONED VESSEL THAT GETS DAMAGED IN A STORM, ETC. IF THAT VESSEL IS ACTIVELY LEAKING GASOLINE OR DIESEL OR SOMETHING OF THIS NATURE, IS THERE AN EXPEDITED RESPONSE THAT CAN TAKE PLACE TO AVOID THE ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGES ARE BEING DONE IMMEDIATELY?

>> GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, THE FRONT END, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY BEFORE A STORM, BUT ANY TYPE OF CONTAMINATION OR LEAK IN THE WATERWAY DUE TO AN AT-RISK VESSEL, DERELICT VESSEL, THE U.S. GUARD HAS A TEAM TO DO A PUMP-OUT OF THE LUBRICANTS IN THAT VESSEL.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE SEWAGE BUT MAY TAKE IT OFF THE VESSEL.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: STABILIZE SO THE PROCESS CAN BE UNDERGONE TO HAVE THE VESSEL REMOVED.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, THE VESSEL MAY B THERE 12 TO 24 HOURS AND DAMAGE CAUSED BY THE LEAKAGE OF ANY PETROLEUM PRODUCTS ON BOARD BEFORE THE U.S. COAST GUARD GETS TO IT.

A LOT OF TIME THE ISSUES ARE OCCURRING IN ANY GIVEN

JURISDICTION. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: ONE OTHER QUESTION OFF THAT TOPIC, RELATIVE TO WHO MAINTAINS THE SIGNAGE IN THE INTERCOASTAL. THE REASON I BRING THAT UP, WE HAVE A VARIETY OF NO WAKE SIGNS, MANATEE ZONE SIGNS, ETC.

SOME OF THEM ARE PRETTY BEAT UP. WHO MAINTAINS THOSE?

>> BETWEEN FWC, BOATING AND WATERWAY AND U.S. COAST GUARD, THE NAVIGATIONAL CHANNELS, MARKING AND THE BOATING RESTRICTION ZONES, MANATEE ZONE, SLOW WAKE IDENTIFIESLE SPEED ZONES OR REDUCED SPEED ARE BETWEEN ONE OF THOSE TWO

AGENCIES. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THANK

YOU. >>MAYOR HUDSON: SO YOU MENTIONED MARTIN COUNTY AND BEING AGGRESSIVE.

SO MANY OF THE SAILBOATS AND BOATS THAT ARE IN OUR SIN LET RIGHT NOW. IT LOOKS LIKE 500.

I AM SURE IT WASN'T. BUT IT LOOKED LIKE A LOT.

AND IT HAS -- IT HAS INCREASED OVER TIME.

AND ANECDOTAL THAT MARTIN COUNTY IS SPENDING THEM ALL TO THE FORT PIERCE INLET. THAT IS WHAT CONCERNED US IS WHAT IT IS DOING TO THE ENVIRONMENT.

ARE THOSE BOATS RESPONSIBLE. ARE YOU CHECKING -- ARE YOU PUMPED OUT. WHERE ARE THEY COMING FROM.

WHY ARE THEY ALL HERE. AND IT LOOKED TO ME LIKE -- I DON'T KNOW HOW CLOSE -- YOU COULDN'T BE CLOSE TO A YACHT FACILITY. AND WE HAVE A YACHT FACILITY NOW, I DON'T KNOW. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU CHECK OUT OR SEE IF THEY ARE ANCHORED THERE WITHIN THE RIGHT NUMBER OF FEET? AND WHAT I ALSO HEARD YOU SAY IS MONROE COUNTY HAS AN ORDINANCE THAT WILL ALLOW SOME KIND OF MONITORING OF THE PUMP OUT OR SOME KIND OF MANDATORY.

AND I KNOW MONROE COUNTY HAS A LOT OF EXCEPTIONAL ORDINANCES THAT THE REST OF THE STATE DIDN'T GET.

AND THE LEGISLATURE HAS BEEN IT TO BE A SPECIAL PLACE.

AND I MEAN I AM GOING TO LOOK INTO THE MONROE COUNTY THING, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN DO IT LEGALLY.

ALSO MARTIN COUNTY APPARENTLY HAS AN ORDINANCE THAT SUPPOSEDLY IS NOT PERHAPS NOT ENFORCEABLE BECAUSE YOUR JURISDICTION, NOT THEIR JURISDICTION BUT THEY ARE SENDING SOMEBODY TO HEAR ANECDOTELY. CAN YOU COMMENT ON THAT? HAVE YOU SEEN THE SAILBOATS IN THE CAUSEWAY LATELY.

>> TO GIVE AN OVERVIEW TO THAT QUESTION, MAYOR.

ANYWHERE WITHIN THE STATE STATUTES, SOME OF THE BASIC RULES WE HIT ON, SOME MORE THINGS IN THERE.

THE FOOTING OFF THE MOORING SITE OR A SUPER YACHT BUILDER SITE AND NEXT TO A BRIDGE AND THOSE SORT OF THINGS.

ALL ABOUT WHO IS PUTTING THE ENFORCEMENT ON THE EDUCATION PRESSURE OBJECT OUR BOATERS. BECAUSE A GROUP WITHIN THAT SAILBOAT, LIVE ON-BOARD COMMUNITY WHERE THEY HAVE ISSUES

[00:50:01]

THOSE SPOTS I CALL THEM AN ENFORCEMENT VACUUM.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: OVERNIGHT THEY ARE THERE.

>> THAT COMMUNITY COMMUNICATES VERY WELL.

FORT PIERCE IS NOT UNIQUE. SPOTS UP AND DOWN THE EAST COAST WHERE YOU SEE THEM POP UP BECAUSE MAYBE THE ENFORCEMENT PRESSURE IS NOT THERE. I DON'T THINK IT IS A LACK OF ORDINANCE OR THOSE THINGS. I WILL TAKE LIEUTENANT ROGERSON.

HE IS THE EAST COAST TEAM FOR ALL OF ST. LUCIE COUNTY, HIM AND SIX OFFICERS. FORT PIERCE IS A SMALL FOOTPRINT ON HIS OVERALL JURISDICTION THAT HE IS RESPONSIBLE OF, HIGH PRIORITY BECAUSE OF THE CONGESTION WITH THE INLET AND THE CITY OF COURSE. WITH THAT BEING SAID ONLY SIX OF THEM TO DO THAT. GOING BACK TO ANOTHER QUESTION.

WHAT CAN WE TO DO HELP? AS WE SEE THESE THINGS INFLUX UP, IF IT IS A PRIORITY WITHIN THE CITY TO PROVIDE MORE ENFORCEMENT OR MORE AWARENESS AND PRESSURE ON THOSE AREAS WE SEE THEY ARE ANCHORING TOO CLOSELY TOTS BRIDGES AND CAUSEWAYS THAT ARE PROVIDING AN ISSUE TO STATE STATUTE AND PROVIDING ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL TO ENFORCE THESE ISSUE ISSUES TE CITY AND THE COUNTY CAN HELP US OUT.

TO HELP THE CITY AND THE COUNTY TO BOLSTER PRIORITIES FOR THE CITY. AGAIN, OUR PRIORITIES FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTY THAT INCLUDE OFFSHORE BUT ISSUES WITHIN THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE AND OUR HIGHEST CONCENTRATION.

THE HIGHEST CONCENTRATION. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THE INLET IS VERY IMPORTANT TO US. I AM READING BETWEEN THE LINES.

ARE YOU SAYING WE CAN JOINTLY ENFORCE.

IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. >> ANY STATE STATUTES ON THE BOOK, A DEPUTY SHERIFF OR DEPUTY POLICE OFFICER, THEY CAN ENFORCE THOSE THINGS NOW NO DIFFERENT THAN THE TRAINING ON THE ROADWAY, THE MARINE ENVIRONMENT AND STATUTES WILL BE NEW TO ANY OF THOSE OFFICERS AND DEPUTIES ENGAGED IN THOSE ISSUE AND NEED TO BE TRAINING TO BOLSTER OUR EFFORTS WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS.

>> YOU DON'T NEED A SIX-PERSON TEAM.

AND PUBLIC SAFETY AND THESE ISSUE ISSUES ARE CLEARLY PUBLIC SAFETY.

BOLSTERING WHAT WE HAVE. GETTING ON DERELICT VESSELS -- INVESTIGATION OF A VESSEL TWO WEEKS AGO AND GETTING ON IT TWO DAYS AFTER IT ACTUALLY SECTION IS VERY IMPORTANT.

THE LONGER WE START TO WAIT THAT INVESTIGATION THE LONGER THAT VESSEL WILL SIT THERE BEING A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE ON THE WATER, HAZARD AND ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERN AS WELL.

>MAYOR HUDSON: I LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN OF DERELICT VESSELS AND THEY ARE STILL THERE. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT.

I LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY. IT IS A LONG PROCESS JUST LIKE REPOSSESSING A CAR OR HOUSE OR ANYTHING ELSE.

YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS BECAUSE IT IS THEIR PROPERTY, RIGHT. IT MIGHT TAKES MONTHS, RIGHT?

IT MIGHT TAKE MONTHS. >> YES, MA'AM.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: GOOD FOR US TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE THIS IS A PROCESS. AND THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE STATE LAW AND THE STATE PROCESS SO IT MIGHT TAKE SOME TIME.

>> CORRECT. JUST BECAUSE IT SECTION, DOESN'T MEAN AN INVESTIGATION STARTS. IT STARTS WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT ENGAGES IT AND DEEMS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED.

PERSONNEL, PRIORITIZATION AND BEING ABLE TO GET THERE.

KNOWING THE DV IS THERE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU NEED A REPORT BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T NECESSARILY KNOW IT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, I WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT SOMETHING RIGHT. I LEARNED ABOUT MOORING FIELD.

WE HAVE ONE OUTSIDE OF CAUSEWAY COVE.

AS COMMISSIONER JOHNSON AND COMMISSIONER BRODERICK POINTED OUT, WE HAVE SAILBOATS PARKED. DID I HEAR YOU CORRECTLY SAYING THAT WE -- FOR MOORING -- ALTHOUGH WE HAVE A MOORING AREA, THEY COULD -- THEY COULD PARK THEIR SAILBOAT UP TO 72 HOURS SOMEWHERE IN THE OTHER AREA. DID I HEAR THAT CORRECTLY.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: I SAID IT AND IT GOT REMOVED.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: USED TO BE.

SO THERE IS NO LIMIT. SO BASICALLY -- NO ORDINANCE, BUT NOW AS FAR AS ENFORCEMENT, IF SOMEONE -- IF WE STARTED TO KNOW IT WAS A BOTTLENECK OR EMERGENCE OF THE SAILBOATS IN THE AREA OUTSIDE OF THIS RESPECTIVE MOORING AREA WHERE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ENFORCEMENT PARTNERSHIPS TO GO TO THE MOORING AREA WHERE THEY ARE AROUND HELP THEM TO IDENTIFY BECAUSE MAYBE THEY DIDN'T KNOW. I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL TODAY.

SO I WANTED TO BE CLEAR. THANK YOU.

[00:55:02]

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I AM NOT A BOATER, BUT I -- I WONDER HOW BOATERS CAN EVEN GET OUT OF THE INLET WITH ALL OF THOSE SAILS.

IT LOOKS VERY, VERY CROWDED. ANYTHING ELSE.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: A VALID POINT.

THE ANCHORED BOATS CAN'T BE ANCHORED IN IT THE CHANNEL.

A BOUNDARY TO BE DISPLACED FROM THE CHANNEL.

DO YOU KNOW HOW FAR THAT NEEDS TO BE?

HOW FAR OUTSIDE OF THE CHANNEL. >> YOU NEED TO BE OUTSIDE OF THE CHANNEL. YOU ARE NOT INTERFERING WITH

NAVIGATION. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: OKAY.

THANK YOU. >>MAYOR HUDSON: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANY DISCUSSION? ANY LAST THING YOU WANT TO TELL US? WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU TAKING TIME BECAUSE WE NO KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN BUSY WITH A COUPLE OF HURRICANES AND THE RESULTING DAMAGE. WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE AND LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, JUST TO WRAP UP -- M MR. MIMMS IS GETTING JITTERY IN HIS CHAIR. I DON'T KNOW IF HE IS GOING TO ASK. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I HEARD ENOUGH INFORMATION TO ASK STAFF TO COLLABORATE WITH THE INDIVIDUALS THAT CREATE MOORING FIELDS IN FWC AND SEE IF THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES TO PUT TOGETHER WITH OUR OWN FORT

PIERCE STAFF. >>MAYOR HUDSON: MARINE UNIT JOHNSON SDWRONZ TO INVESTIGATE TO PUT WHATEVER KIND OF INFORMATION OR IF WE NEED TO ENACT AND MOVE FORWARD WITH ANY ADDITIONAL LEGAL ORDINANCE, YES, MIGHT, MISSEARLEY TO INPUT.

FORT PIERCE IS ATTRACTIVE. A GREAT INLET.

A GREAT OPPORTUNITY. DEEP VESSEL.

DEEP DRAFT VESSELS CAN COME IN AND MOOR UP, AND I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT CONVERSATION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WHAT I LEARN TODAY.

WE ALL KNOW THAT BOATERS COMMUNICATE.

THEY ALL KNOW -- THEY TELL EACH OTHER WHAT THE BEST PLACE TO DO THIS OR THAT. BUT SOMETHING LIKE AN ATTRACTIVE PLACE FOR SANCTIONERING YOUR BOAT AND STAYING THERE FOR A WHILE ALMOST OVERNIGHT BECAME FORT PIERCE.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: IT HAS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF HARBOR ISLE. A GREAT PLACE THAT FOLKS HAVE CAUGHT A NICE MOORING FIELD RIGHT THERE ON THEIR OWN.

MAYBE WE NEED TO REACH OUT TO THAT GROUP ALSO.

I THINK THAT THE LIEUTENANT WAS TALKING ABOUT OR THE CAPTAIN WAS TALKING ABOUT THE GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS THAT -- THAT TALKED TO EACH OTHER TO COLLABORATE. THEY.

THEY KNOW WHERE TO GO. THOSE FOLKS.

THE BOATING COMMUNITY MARY STEVE M[L]CNAIR THEY KNOW WHERE TO GO.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: BECAUSE IT IS FREE.

NOT CHARGING FOR MOORING USE -- NEW ENGLAND.

I BOATED SAILBOATS FOR DECADES. EVERY PORT HAD A SANITATION FACILITY OR BOAT TO PROVIDE THOSE TYPES OF SERVICES.

NO CHARGE; HOWEVER, A LOT OF THEM WERE MUNICIPALLY RUN TO CHARGE YOU FOR A MOORING. PAYINGX DOLLAR PER FOOT TO PICK UP ONE OF THOSE MOORINGS FOR WHATEVER AMOUNT OF TIME IT WAS.

IN THIS INSTANCE STANCE, IT IS FREE.

WHERE THE MOTIVATION TO MOVE? THERE ISN'T ANY OR TO GO PICK UP A MOORING AT CAUSEWAY COVE AND SPEND THE WINTER THERE.

NO MOTIVATION TO DO IT. WE HAVE MULTIPLE LAYERS.

ONE IS WASTE MANAGEMENT A CRITICAL COMPONENT.

AND ALSO ANKHAGE VERSUS MOORINGS.

A DIN INSTINCT DIFFERENCE. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THERE

IS. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: ANKHAGE. IF WE CAN PHASE INTO SOME TYPE OF MOORING. NOT CHEAP, BUT HELPS TO GENERATE WASTE REMOVAL AND PUMP OUTS AND NO CHARGE TO THE BOATER.

YOU DON'T WANT TO CHARGE THEM FOR IT BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, THE THRESHOLD IS I WILL DUMP IT IS REALLY THE ANSWER OF WHAT TO DO.

SEVERAL SOLUTIONS THAT YOU ARE DRIVING AT.

A MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION, THOUGH, I THINK LONG TERM, BUT THIS SITUATION, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

THIS STARTED AT COVID. HAS GOTTEN SIGNIFICANTLY MORE

POPULATED SINCE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: AS MARTIN COUNTY

GOT MORE AGGRESSIVE. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: EXACTLY. GO NORTH.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ANYTHING ELSE. MR. MIMMS, YOU WANT TO CHIME IN.

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: MADAM MAYOR, MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK MAYOR BOND AND HIS TEAM, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. THE INFORMATION WAS VALUABLE.

I AM VERY INTRIGUED BY THE WASTE DISPOSAL PROGRAMMING THAT WE CAN POSSIBLY BRING TO FORT PIERCE. ALSO AS COMMISSIONER JEREMIAH JOHNSON STATED, THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A MOORING FIELD

[01:00:01]

MOUNTING UP WHEREVER WE COULD BE.

I DO LIKE THAT. VERY INTRIGUING AND I LIKE DEFINITELY FEEL LIKE WE CAN WORK WITH THE TEAM AND HELP OUR

COMMUNITY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: PUT THE WORD OUT THAT THERE IS ENFORCEMENT. MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE

WORLD. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: DO YOU THINK DEAN WILL SHED THE INFORMATION.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: DEAN WILL BE THE GUY, NO DOUBT.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: QUESTION THE FACILITY.

WE HAVE THE GREATEST MARINA FACILITY ALREADY HERE AND HAVE THE MOBILE PUMP OUT FACILITY BECAUSE WE HAVE THE

INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: GOOD POINT.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: VERY HELPFUL IN DRAFTING A WAY

FORWARD FOR IT. >>NICHOLAS MIMMS: DEAN WILL BE THE LEAD. HE DOES NOT KNOW THAT YET, BUT HE WILL BE THE LEAD ON THIS PROJECT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: UNLESS HE IS WATCHING.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR.

MR. MIMMS, I HEAR TWO THINGS. THE SEWAGE PART.

I ALSO HEARD ENFORCEMENT. HEAR FROM THE MARINE AND POLICE DEPARTMENT AND A PLAN THAT WE WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS, RIGHT. I THINK MAYBE -- I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE FOR THEM TO COME IN AND MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION TO HELP US UNDERSTAND HOW WE ARE GOING TO WORK TOGETHER WITH FWC, AS WELL AS THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, PARTICULARLY ON THE CONGESTION, THE ANCHORED MOORING GOING ON IN THE INLET. SOME UNDERSTANDING WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE AND OUR CITIZENS WILL BE LOOKING FOR THAT.

OUR BEST INTEREST TO HAVE A CONFERENCE AGENDA CONVERSATION

OF THAT. >>NICHOLAS MIMMS: I FEEL LIKE IN A NUMBER OF MONTHS A COMPREHENSIVE WATERWAY PLAN.

THE CHIEF WAS ASKING FOR SOMETHING ELSE TO DO.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: HE WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING ELSE TO DO?

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: WE WILL GIVE HIM THAT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THANK YOU FOR TAKING THAT.

DOES THAT COME WITH ROAD CONTROL AND HE IS ADMINISTRATION OF DEPUTY CHIEF. WHATEVER HAPPENS, HE WILL GET IT

BACK TO THE RIGHT PERSON. >>NICHOLAS MIMMS: I DON'T KNOW IF IT WE HAVE A DIVISION, BUT THERETO A BOAT WE USE.

A VESSEL. >>MAYOR HUDSON: ANYTHING ELSE?

COMMISSIONER GAINES. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I HAVE BEEN QUIET THIS MORNING. ALL OF THESE -- ALL OF THESE ACTIVITIES, THIS PIECE, THAT PIECE, THIS PIECE, THAT PIECE, LET'S -- ONE THING WE NEED TO DO, MR. NICK IS, WHEN WE SIT DOWN AND START PLANNING TO -- BECAUSE WHAT I AM HEARING IS WE WILL TRIER TO PROTECT AND WE ARE ALSO LOOKING FOR SOME TYPE OF ENFORCEMENT THAT WE STOP PEOPLE FROM COMING UP AND DOING EVERYTHING. A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD, YOU NKNOW TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO COME. SO WHEN WE DO THAT, LET'S MAKE SURE THIS TIME BEFORE BEFORE WE GET INTO SOME TYPE OF NEW ORDINANCE THAT SOUNDS LIKE WHERE WE ARE HEADING.

THAT WE DO GET SOME INPUT FROM SOME OF THESE BOATERS THAT ARE HERE. SOME OF THE BOATERS THAT ARE HERE SO WE CAN HAVE THEIR INPUT SO ONCE WE GET IN HERE AND WE MAKE THIS ORDINANCE, THE NEXT MEETING WE WILL WON'T HAVE 1,000 PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE SAYING DID YOU DO THIS.

DID YOU DO THAT. AND YOU KNOW, MAYBE, EVEN IF TIME PERMITS, IF WE HAVE A MEETING WITH -- WITH THE RESIDENTS. LET THESE GUYS COME BACK AND SAY THIS IS WHAT WE SEE. THIS IS WHAT WE KNOW.

NOT COMING FROM US AND LET IT COME FROM THE EXPERTS IS A TO SAY WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE YOUR LIVES EASIER AND CAN YOU HELP US MAKE OUR LIVES EASIER AND WE GO FROM THERE.

I LOVE THE IDEAS AND COMMISSIONER BRODERICK, YOU TOOK MY QUESTION. I DID HAVE A QUESTION BUT COMMISSIONER BRODERICK -- SO I WAS LISTENING.

I KNOW I RAN IN LATE, BUT I WAS LISTENING BECAUSE MY MAJOR CONCERN WAS -- I WAS STUCK ON THEM 21 DAYS.

AS AN ATTORNEY, 21 DAYS IS REALLY 30 DAYS.

I KNOW HOW STUFF WORKS. I WAS THINKING ARE WE REALLY WAITING 30 DAYS IF WE FIND A BOAT THAT IS SINKING OR A BOAT THAT WASTE OR SEWAGE. WE HAVE TO WAIT 30 DAYS? AT THAT POINT, THE DAMAGE IS ALREADY DONE.

I MEAN, IT WILL TAKE, WHAT, 30 DAYS OR FOUR OR FIVE YEARS TO CLEAR UP A SPILL. HE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION.

I AM GLAD THAT THE COAST GUARD COMES RIGHT IN.

BUT I WANT TO BE VERY CAREFUL, BECAUSE I -- I HEAR WHERE WE ARE GOING. AND I AM LOOKING OVER AT MADAM

[01:05:03]

AND WE GO FORWARD. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE CAN HAVE THE MEETINGS SATURDAY AFTERNOON AT THE COVE.

IT HAVE TO BE A PUBLIC MEETING, WHERE THE BOATERS ARE.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DO IT, MADAM MAYOR.

MY TWO CENTS. >>MAYOR HUDSON: ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE LEAVE IT? ALL RIGHT, WE WILL MOVE ON.

[b. Discussion of proposed Edgartown Historic District noise ordinance]

>> NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THE DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED EDGARTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT NOISE ORDINANCE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: MR. MIMMS, THERE IS MISS EARLEY AND NOT YOU.

>> YES, MA'AM. WHAT WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA IS A PROPOSED ORDINANCE FOR PURPOSE OF DISCUSSION.

THAT PROPOSED ORDINANCE HAS MANY DIFFERENT PLANNING -- TRADITIONALLY PLANNING TYPE AMENDMENTS.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE IS A PROVISION THAT ADDRESS THE NOISE COMING FROM COMMERCIAL USES WITHIN THE DISTRICT.

A AND THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE ALREADY BEEN TO TWO BOARDS, MADAM MAYOR.

IT HAS BEEN TO THE PLANNING BOARD AND THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD. AND THERE WAS DISCUSSION AT THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD ABOUT THE NOISE ISSUE.

AND IT BECAME CLEAR THAT IT WOULD HELP TO HAVE THE ASSISTANCE OF AN EXPERT TO KIND OF TELL US OR TELL THE COMMISSION WHAT DIFFERENT DECIBEL LEVELS SOUNDS LIKE.

WE HAVE FOR YOU HERE TODAY AN EX EXPERT. HIS NAME IS MR. ROBERT LOKENDY.

I WOULD LIKE TO ASK, MADAM MAYOR IF HE CAN TAKE A

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WE ARE OUT OF RESES AND BACK IN PRISON.

MISS EARLEY, DO YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE WHO IS HERE.

>>MS. EARLEY: MADAM MAYOR, I WILL LET MR. WILL KENDY TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIS EXPERTISE. HE WAS ASKED TO COME TO SPEAK TO THE MISSION ABOUT THE BASICS OF NOISE AND TO KIND OF GIVE YOU A BASELINE AND TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND OUR CITYWIDE NOISE ORDINANCE AND SECONDARILY, DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE EDGARTOWN ZONING ORDINANCE AS IT

PERTAINS TO NOISE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MR. LOKENDY.

WELCOME. >> MADAM MAYOR AND CITY COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS ROB.

I AM THE PRINCIPAL CONSULTANT OF RML ACCUSICS.

I HAVE BEEN AN ACOUSTIC CONSULTANT FOR APPROXIMATELY 27 YEARS AND SPECIALIZING IN ARCHITECTURAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL ACOUSTICS, THE DESIGN OF BUILDINGS FOR SOUND AND ALSO THE CONTROL OF NOISE OUTDOORS. WORKED ON OVER 100 ENVIRONMENTAL NOISE PROJECTS MANY OF WHICH INVOLVED BARS, RESTAURANTS, OUTDOOR MUSIC VENUES WITH SOUND PROPAGATING TO, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. SO THIS IS A TOPIC THAT I AM QUITE FAMILIAR WITH AND HAVE FAIR AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE.

SO I WAS TOLD TODAY THAT THIS WAS SORT OF INFORMAL MEETING AND THAT THIS IS KIND OF SORT OF AN EDUCATIONAL PRESENTATION TO GIVE YOU A BACKGROUND ON ACOUSTICS AND SOUND IN GENERAL.

AND ALSO TO LET YOU HEAR FIRST HAND WHAT DIFFERENT SOUNDS CORRELATE TO DIFFERENT LEVELS. BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NOISE ORDINANCE THAT HAVE LEVELS, DBA AND DBC.

PEOPLE ASK ME THE QUESTION BECAUSE I WRITE A LOT OF REPORTS AND GRAPHS. WHAT DOES 60 DBA SOUND LIKE? A VERY COMPLICATED QUESTION, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE SOURCE IS. HOPEFULLY YOU WILL GET THAT IMPRESSION TODAY IN THE PRESENTATION THAT -- WE TRY TO SIMPLIFY ACOUSTICS HERE FOR YOU. AND IT IS FAIRLY COMPLEX.

IT IS A BRANCH OF PHYSICS. SO THERE IS SOME COMPLEXITY TO IT. AND WE WILL TRY TO MAKE IT SOMEWHAT SIMPLE. AND NOT HAVE TOO TOUCHDOWN MATH INVOLVED. SO JUST TO COVER QUICK OUTLINE OF THE PRESENTATION. WE TALK ABOUT, WHAT IS SOUND? WE TALK OF SOUND PRESSURE, SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL AND THE DECIBEL.

WE CAN TALK OF DECIBEL ADDITION AND SUBTRACTION WHY IT IS

[01:10:03]

AND THE LOUDNESS OF SOUNDS AND HUMAN'S PERCEPTION OF LOUDNESS OF SOUNDS AND CHANGES IN LOUDNESS AND SOUNDS AND HOW THAT CORRESPONDS WITH CHANGES IN SUND LEVEL.

TALK OF FREQUENCY WHICH IS THE PERCEPTION OF PITCH, HIGH FREQUENCY, LOW FREQUENCY SOUND, WAVELENGTH AND THE SPEED OF SOUND. WON'T GET INTO TOO MUCH OF THAT.

WE WILL TALK OF OCTAVE BANDS AND FREQUENT WEIGHTINGS THAT ARE C IT CAL WHAT IS ON YOUR NOISE ORDINANCE A-RATED AND C-RATED SOUND LEVELS. PROP SAYINGS PASS.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOUND PROP GATES FROM THE SOURCE TO THE RECEIVER. A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN BETWEEN. FACTORS THAT INFLUENCE THAT PROPAGATION OUTDOORS SPECIFICALLY AND TOOLS FOR REDUCING OUTDOOR SOUND PROPAGATION AND GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A CASE STUDY. BEFORE WE GOT STARTED EARLIER THIS MORNING, MADAM MAYOR, I WAS IN HERE AND CALIBRATING THE SYSTEM HERE, SO THE LEVELS THAT WILL COME OUT OF THE LOUDSPEAKER IN THE BACK, THE MICROPHONE RIGHT THERE JUST IN FRONT OF THE MAYOR, SO IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN WITHIN A COUPLE OF DBS OF ACCURATE. WHEN I SAY 55 TO 60.

ACCURATE ON THAT LOCATION. OFF TO THE SIDE WOULDN'T BE TOO MCH DIFFERENT. OUT IN THE AUDIENCE IT WILL BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY ARE CLOSER TO THE SPEAKER.

TRY TO CALIBRATE IT TO THE DAIS. OKAY.

SO WHAT IS SOUND? TECHNICALLY -- THIS IS ACTUALLY KIND OF A SIMPLIFIED INFORMATION, SOUND IS A DISTURBANCE IN A MATERIAL OR MEDIAN CAUSES OF CHANGES IN PRESSURE DETECTED BY AN INSTRUMENT.

WHAT THAT MEANS YOU MUST HAVE A VIBRATING OBJECT THAT IS YOUR SOURCE THAT WILL GENERATE THIS PRESSURE.

MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT. THE HUMAN VOCAL CORDS CREATE VIBRATION. LOUDSPEAKER DRIVER.

YOU NEED A PATH. SOMETHING THAT THE PRESSURE CHANGES MOVE THROUGH AND OUR CASE, MOST INTERESTED IN AIR FOR THE MOST PART, BUT IT ALSO DOES TRAVEL THROUGH SOLID OBJECTS AND FINALLY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DETECTOR OF THESE CHANGES IN PRESSURE AND THAT WILL BE THE RECEIVER WHICH IN OUR CASE THE HUMAN EAR OR MICROPHONE AND TAKING MESH CHURNLTS.

ALL WE ARE DOING IS MEASURING PRESSURE IN THE AIR AND THE EAR AND THE MICROPHONE ARE BASICALLY PRESSURE DETECTORS.

♪ ♪ SOME WHEN YOU HEAR THE. YOU HEAR THE GATOR FIGHT SONG, A SELF-CONTAINED SONG THAT ENTERS YOUR EAR AND YOU HEAR THE SONG AND RECOGNIZE IT. ALL THAT REALLY IS A DRIVER MOVING AIR BACK AND FORTH. AND THAT AIR MOVES BACK AND FORTH AT VARIOUS RATES OF INTENSITY AND MOVES PART OF YOUR EAR BACK AND FORTH THAT MOVES HAIR CELLS IN YOUR EAR BACK AND FORTH AND ELICITS SOME NEUROPOTENTIAL TO YOUR BRAIN AND YOUR BRAIN SOFTWARE CONVERTS THAT OVER TO THE GATOR FIGHT SONG. ALL THAT IS IS AIR MOVING AROUND AT DIFFERENT RATES. SO THE SOUND PRESSURE IS REALLY JUST AIR MOVEMENT. WE ARE UNDER OBVIOUSLY ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE. SOUND PRESSURE IS ABOVE ATMOSPHERIC AND BELOW ATMOSPHERIC AND SOUND MOVES IN WAVES THAT RETRACT AND COMPRESS SOUND IN THE AIR.

SOUND PRESSURE IS WHAT WE ARE MEASURING WITH THE SOUND LEVEL METER. AND THAT -- THE UNIT OF MEASUREMENT OF THAT IS THE MICRO PASGALES.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT THE SOUND LEVEL.

A SOUND LEVEL LIMIT. WHEN WE TALK OF "SOUND LEVEL" WE ARE TALKING OF "SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL." WHAT WE CONVERT SOUND PRESSURE TO SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF DES SI BELLS. SO WHY DO WE BOTHER CONVERTING ALL OF THIS TO DECIBELS AND SOUND LEVELS INSTEAD OF SOUND PRESSURE? WELL, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT, LIKE, THE HUMAN HEARING, YOU HAVE WHAT WE CALL THE FLESH HOLD OF AUTOM-- OF AUDIBILITY. AND YOU HAVE THE THRESHOLD OF PAIN WHERE YOU CAN STILL HEAR ABOVE IT BUT VERY PAINFUL TO DO SO. THAT RANGE IS BETWEEN 20 MICRO PASCALS AND 20 MILLION. WHEN YOU START TO ASSIGN THE ACTUAL PRESSURES TO DIFFERENT SOUNDS LIKE THE SOUND OF A QUIET REGA REGARD STUDIO, A PRIVATE CONVERSATION, THE NUMBERS GET VERY LARGE VERY QUICKLY.

AND WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW THE CAR PASSED BY 1,500300

[01:15:13]

LOGARITHM. >>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU CAN GIVE THE QUIZ THAT YOU WANT, BUT NOBODY IS TAKING IT.

[LAUGHTER]< >> A THRESHOLD OF PAIN AT 120 DES SI BELLS THAT EQUATES TO 20 MILLION MICROPASCALS.

IF YOU FILL IN THE GAP IN BETWEEN HERE, YOU ARE DEALING WITH EASY-TO-DEAL WITH NUMBERS, AND THIS IS A COMPRESSED SCALE OF PRESSURE. SO WHAT DOES THAT REALLY MEAN.

IT MEANS -- FORGET THE MATH PART, VERY LARGE CHANGES IN SOUNDS PRESSURE REPRESENTED BY SMALL CHANGES IN -- IN DB, OKAY.

BECAUSE BESS SI BELLS REPRESENT THE LOGARITHM OF A RATIO HAVE TO BE ADDED AND SUBTRACTED LOG RITUALLY.

IF YOU HAVE 60 DB AND YOU ADD 40 DB.

WHAT IS THE TOTAL DECIBELS YOU WOULD GET FROM THAT.

IS IT 100? NO, LINEAR ADDICTION.

WE ARE LOG LOGARITHMIC EDITION. TOTAL 60.04.

YOU ARE NOD ADDING. 20 DB BETWEEN TWO SOUNDS IS A LOT OF DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PREVIOUS SCALES.

YOU ARE NOT ADDING THAT MUCH. A BACKGROUND SOUND OF 40.

AND THEN YOU PLAY 60 OVER IT, YOU ARE GETTING THE 60 THAT YOU PUT IN FROM THE SOURCE. SO JUST TO KIND OF KEEP IN MIND WHEN YOU ARE ADDING DECIBELS, A 10 DB MORE THAN THE RESULT IS THE HIGHER NUMBER. WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, IF 10 DB MORE THAN ANY OTHER SOUND LEVELS IS HOW LOUD IT IS WHEN YOU ADD THEM TOGETHER. AND IF BOTH SOUNDS ARE THE SAME SOUND LEVEL LIKE 70 AND 70 DB, YOU ADD THEM TOGETHER 73.

ADD 3 DB WHEN YOU DOUBLE THE SOUND SOURCE.

THAT IS THE MOST YOU CAN EVER GET WHEN YOU ADD TWO SOUNDS TOGETHER ADDING 3 DB TO THE HIGHER SOUND.

THE ONLY TIME THEY ARE THE SAME. IF THEY ARE SEPARATED ADDED 3 DB TO THE SOUND LEVEL. YOU ASK WHY TO SUBTRACT DES SI BELLS? LET'S SAY OUT TAKING MEASUREMENTS AND TRYING TO ENFORCE A NOISE ORDINANCE.

50 DB BEFORE THEY TURN ON THE COMPRESSOR OR MUSIC WHATEVER THE SOURCE MIGHT BE, IF THE NOISE SOURCE PLUS THE AMBIENT.

YOU SAY YOU ARE MISH CHURG THE NOISE SOURCE AND THE AMBIENT THERE STATEMENT IS 80. SO THE QUESTION IS, HOW DO WE FIND OUT WHAT JUST THE NOISE SOURCE IS ALONE BY SUBTRACTING THE 50 FROM THE 80. SO WHEN WE TAKE 80 MINUS 50, DO WE GET 30, THE NOISE IS THE 30 AND ADD IT TO THE 50 AND GET 80.

WE KNOW -- 80 MINUS 50, 79.996 BASICALLY 800 BECAUSE SUCH A DIFFERENCE IN ENERGY BETWEEN THE TWO, THAT THE LOWER ONE IS REALLY NOT ADDING AT ALL. SO KIND OF LIKE WITH THE ADDITION, WHEN YOU ARE SUBTRACTING DES SI BELLS, 10 DB OR MORE DIFFERENCE, THE RESULT WILL BE THE HIGHER NUMBER.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU GO OUT TO MEASURE SOURCE PLUS AMBIENT AND 10 DB MORE THAN THE AMBIENT, YOU HAVE WHAT IS CLEAN SOURCE.

YOU KNOW YOUR MEASURING IS THAT LEVEL.

IF NOT, YOU HAVE TO USE DECIBEL SUBTRACTION WHERE THERE IS A FORMULA FOR THAT TO ARE USE THIS KIND OF SIMPLE TABLE HERE THAT SHOWS IF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR AMBIENT AND YOUR NOISE SOURCE COMBINE, IT IS 3 DB. IN BETWEEN YOUR AMBIENT AND AMBIENT NOISE IS 3 DB. WHAT YOU APPLY TO THE TOTAL LEVEL IS 3. AND I WILL GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES. THE GREATEST DIFFERENCE 4 TO 5 DB DIFFERENCE, 9 AND 10, THE LESS YOU ARE GOING TO SUBTRACT FROM THAT HIGHER NUMBER. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU WENT OUT TO MEASURE AND THE NOISE ORDINANCE 60 DBA.

AND YOU TURNED ON THE NOISE SOURCE AND YOU MEASURED 63.

SO 63 MINUS THE 60 IS 60. SO THE 60 IS THE LIMIT, YOU

[01:20:02]

SO NOW YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A VIOLATION AND NOT UNTIL YOU DO THAT SUBTRACTION WOULD YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE A VIOLATION OF THE NOISE ORDINANCE.

WOULD HAVE TO TAKE OUT THE AMBIENT FIRST.

AND, AGAIN, AS YOU GET LOUDER AND LOUDER AND THE AM BEE YENT STAY -- EMBEE ENT SAYS THE SAME AND YOUR NOISE LEVEL UNTIL YOU ARE 10 DB OVER AND YOU KNOW THE SOURCE IS WHAT YOU ARE MEASURING OUT THERE. NO LECTURE ON SOUND IS COMPLETE WITHOUT ONE IMAGE OF A SOUND WAVE.

THE PURIST FORM OF DEMONSTRATING -- SIMPLE FORM OF SOUND NOT FOUND IN NATURE, BUT IF YOU HEARD A TUNING FORK.

TUNED AT ONE FREQUENCY WHEN YOU BANG IT.

RIGHT. YOU LOOK AT THAT GRAPH.

YOU HAVE ZERO, WHICH IS -- I AM WONDER GOING I CAN GET MY LITTLE CLICK ON HERE.SO YOU HAVE ZERO. THIS IS YOUR ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE BASICALLY. JUST TRACKING PRESSURE OVER TIME FROM THAT VIBRATING OBJECT. AND IT POINTS OF GREATEST PRESSURE, THAT IS YOUR HIGHEST AMPLITUDE THAT CORRESPONDS TO YOUR LOUDNESS. THE GREATER THE PRESSURE IN THE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE. YOUR EAR RESPONSE TO BOTH.

WHEN WE TALK OF THE DECIBEL REPRESENTS AMPLITUDE.

REPRESENTS LOUDNESS IN TERMS OF YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE SOUND.

THE MORE PRESSURE, THE LOUDER IT SOUNDS TO YOUR -- IN YOUR BRAIN BASICALLY SO SEE WHERE THE WAVES ARE SEPARATING THE MOST.

COMPRESSING AGAIN. WHEN TALKING OF SOUND LEVELS.

THIS DOTTED LINE HERE WHICH IS -- SORT OF LIKE AN AVERAGE.

WE ARE NOT TAKING THE PEAK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SOUND LEVELS OF THAT WAVE. WE ARE TAKING UP.707.

I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO TECHNICAL ON THAT, SO -- BUT WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IS LIKE -- YOU HAVE THIS PRESSURE. AND THIS IS RELATED TO AMPLITUDE AND LOUDNESS. HOW DO WE PERCEIVE CHANGES IN LOUDNESS IN TERMS OF DECIBELS. THIS IS WHERE I HAVE A LITTLE DEMONSTRATION FOR YOU WHERE I A BASELINE, 50 DB NOISE.

PINK KNOWS. THAT SOUNDS LIKE STATIC BUT EQUAL ENERGY. WE WILL CALL THAT THE BASELINE OF NO CHANGE. ZERO DB, OUR BASELINE AND THEN I WILL PLAY 55 DB SO YOU CAN HEAR THAT, A FIVE DB INCREASE AND MOST PEOPLE IS CONSIDERED A PLAINLY AUDIBLE INCREASE IN SOUND. I GET THAT QUESTION A LOT.

CAN YOU TELL WHAT A 2 DB AND 3 DB DIFFERENCE.

5 IS WITH NORMAL. MOST OF THAN THAT, WE CAN HEAR A 2 TO 3 DB DIFFERENT IN A LISTENING FOR THAT CHANGE.

BUT NORMAL ACTIVITY YOU WOULDN'T NOTICE.

ONE PEOPLE WOULDN'T NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE.

A 10 DB COMPARED TO A BASELINE, MOST PEOPLE WOULD PERCEIVE THAT AS BEING TWICE AS LOUD, BUT ACTUALLY 10 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF SOUND ENERGY IN THAT -- COMPARED TO THE BASELINE.

AND THEN WITH 15 DB, THREE TIMES AS LOUD.

14 DB. I WILL PLAY 50 FOR YOU.

A LITTLE BIT OF NOISE IN HERE RIGHT NOW.

THIS ROOM IS 37 DBA WE SHOULD KNOW THIS IS WHAT WE ARE MEASURING. SO THAT IS 50 DB.

THIS IS FIVE DB MORE. SHOULD BE PLAINLY AUDIBLE.

FIRST ONE AND PLAY IT AT 50. YOU WILL PERCEIVE IT AS TWICE AS LOUD. FIRST ONE AGAIN.

[01:25:16]

ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THIS SEPARATED FROM 10 DB YOU ARE GETTING THE LOUDER SOUND.

IF I PLAY 60, I WILL PLAY 50 AT THE SAME TIME AND YOU WON'T SEE ANY INCREASE IN THAT SOUND. 55 AND 65.

THIS IS 65. NOW AT 55.

YOU HEAR THE CHANGE, RIGHT. BUT IF I DO 65 AND 60 -- [STATIC] -- YOU HEAR THAT LITTLE BIT? WITHIN 5 DB MUCH EACH OTHER. YOU CAN HEAR A FEW DB ADDED TO THAT TOTAL SOUND. NOW WE WILL TALK OF FREQUENCY WHICH IS ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT OF SOUND, WHICH IS THIS IS THE NUMBER OF TIMES THAT THAT PRESSURE WAVE OCCURS IN A SECOND. SO IF IT VIBRATES 1,000 TIMES IN A SECOND 1,000 HERTZ. WE USE HERTZ AS THE UNIT OF FREQUENCY. AND IF IT VIBRATES 20 TIMES A SECOND, IT IS 20 HERTZ. HUMAN EAR CAN HEAR FROM 20 HERTZ TO 20,000 HERTZ WHEN YOU ARE A BABY.

WHEN YOU GET OLDER HIGH FREQUENT IF YOU SHOOT A LOT OF GUNS AND RACE CARS IT COMES DOWN MORE AND MORE, RIGHT.

SO OUR PERCEPTION OF FREQUENCY IS PITCHED.

TALK OF LOW FREQUENCY SOUND, BASE MUSIC AND THAT KIND OF THING. I WILL GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES. SO WHAT IS -- IF YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, LIKE WITH THE SOUND WAVE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A PURE TONE AND MOST SOUNDS ARE COMPLEX AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF THESE IN THEM AT THE SAME TIME. SO I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF 63 HERTZ AND 500 HERTZ AND A 4,000 HERTZ.

AND THEN KIND OF PLAY A REGULAR SOUND THAT HAS SOME OF THAT FREQUENT CONTENT IN IT AND ALSO OTHERS.

A 63 HERTZ PURE TONE. ARE YOU Y'ALL HEARING IT? OKAY. AND THIS IS A -- A BASE GUITAR.

♪ 63 HERTZ COMPONENTS AND HARMONICS AND A MORE COMPLEX SOUND.

AND 500 HERTZ.

THAT IS VIBRATING 500 TIMES A SECOND.

♪ ♪

>>> YOU HAVE AN OBOE THAT HAS 500 HERTZ SOUND AS WELL AS OTHERS. HIGH FREQUENCY -- HIGH FREQUENCY SOUND. 4,000 HERTZ PURE TONE.

VIBRATING 4,000 TIMES A SECOND. AND CICADAS OR THAT TYPE OF THING SOUNDS, I KNOW IT IS COMING FROM THE CRICKETS, RIGHT.

HERE IS KIND OF AN INTERESTING SCIENCE SWEEP.

FROM THE LOWEST FREQUENCY ALL THE WAY UP TO THE HIGHEST.

SHOULD SAY 63 HERTZ UP TO 16,000 HERTZ.

MY SPEAKER CAN'T PRODUCE 20 HERTZ HARDLY PRODUCE 63 AND A DECENT SIZED SPEAKER. AGAIN, THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS WHEN YOU THINK OF THE COMPLEXITY OF ALL THESE SOUNDS.

IF YOU HAVE, LIKE, AN ORCHESTRA, YOU HAVE ALL THESE INSTRUMENTS GENERATING ALL THESE VY BRACES AND SOUNDS FLUCTUATE DIFFERENT RATES, 1,000 TIMES A SECOND. 4,000 TIMES A SECOND.

50 TIMES A SECOND BOUNCING OFF THESE SURFACES AND YOUR EAR IS DETECTING ALL THE PRESSURE CHANGES CONSTANTLY AND CONVERTING IT TO MUSIC. PRETTY FASCINATING WHEN YOU THINK OF HOW COMPLEX THAT REALLY IS.

AND THE JOB YOUR EAR IS DOING TO SORT IT ALL OUT.

SO THIS IS -- I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WAVE LENGTH.

WAVELENGTH IS BASICALLY THE DISTANCE THE SOUND TRAVELS.

IT IS A CONSTANT FOR SOUND AT A GIVEN FREQUENCY.

I WILL RUN THIS LITTLE DEMONSTRATION HERE.

IF YOU HAVE A SOUND WAVE, THE DISTANCE THAT SOUND WAVE TRAVELS IN THAT ONE CYCLE, OKAY. IT IS RELATED TO THE SPEED OF SOUND. AND THE FREQUENCY THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TALKING ABOUT 1,000 HERTZ.

SOUND TRAVELS AT 1100 FEET PER SECOND AND CALCULATE THE

[01:30:05]

IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAVE 63 MERITS SOUND WHICH WAS THIS WON A VERY LONG WAVELENGTH. SPEED OF SOUND AND THE WAVELENGTH IS LONG, 18 FEET WAVELENGTH.

FOR A 2,000 HERTZ SOUND.

VIBRATING VERY QUICKLY OFF VERY SMALL WAVELENGTH, SEVEN INCHES COMPARED TO 63 MERITS SOUND. THIS LITTLE TABLE.

WHEN TALK -- OCTAVE BANDS. 63, 125, 125, ON AND ON.

THE FREQUENCY OF THE OCTAVE. WHEN YOU DOUBLE THE FREQUENCY YOU HAVE THE WAVELENGTH. 18-FOOT WAVE LENGTH AND 8,000, YOUR WAVELENGTH IS A COUPLE OF INCHES.

WHY THAT IMPORTANT, 500 HERTZ SOUND COMING FROM MUSIC ON ONE SIDE OF THE WALL AND A TEN-FOOT WALL AND SOMEBODY ON THE OTHER SIDE.

[SOUND] >> A SMALL WAVELENGTH AND THE WALL IS ABLE TO REJECT THAT. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A LOW FREQUENCY SOUND VERY LONG WAVELENGTHS, 18-FOOT, FOR EXAMPLE, A SUBWOOFER AND A TEN-FOOT WALL AND YOU PLAY THAT SOUND, THE WAVE WILL JUST BEND RIGHT OVER THAT WALL AND KEEP ON GOING. THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH BASE MUSIC OUTDOORS MORE SO THAN THE HIGHER FREQUENCY SOUNDS BECAUSE BUILDINGS, WALLS, OTHER OBJECTS CAN STOP THOSE SOUNDS THE HIGHER SOUNDS EASIER BECAUSE LARGER WAVELENGTHS.

THE SMALLER ONES BEND AND KEEP ON GOING.

SO THE THING THOUGH IS WE CAN'T TALK OF 63 HERTZ, 64 HERTZ, 65 HERTZ, EVERY FREQUENCY. MORE INFORMATION THAN WE NEED AND NOT A LOT WHEN WE ARE LISTENING TO THINGS.

WE WANT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO TALK ABOUT THEM KIND OF LIKE WITH DB, EASIER TO DEAL WITH. THE OVERALL SOUND LEVEL.

94 DB. YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE CHARACTER OF THAT SOUND, 94 DB.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE FREQUENCY SPECTRUM, YOU CAN SAY THAT IS A LOT OF LOW FREQUENCY SOUND OR HIGH FREQUENCY SOUND AND I HAVE AN IDEA WHETHER THAT MIGHT BOTHER ME OR WHETHER IT MIGHT BE. WHAT WE DO IS GROUP THESE FREQUENCIES INTO BANDS LIKE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER CALLED OCTABAND. AND EACH OCTABAND OR THE CENTER FREQUENCY OF THE OCTABAND. WHAT I MEAN ABOUT THAT, 94 DB.

WE MEASURE WITH THE SOUND LEVEL METER.

AND IN REALITY, 94 DBZ. Z MEANS UNWEIGHTED AND NO WEIGHTS. AND IT IS IN YOUR NOISE ORDINANCE AND PROBABLY OUGHT TO COME OUT.

IF YOU TAKE THAT LIKE A BIG 55-GALLON DRUM AND FILLED UP 50% OF THE WAY WITH WATER OR WHATEVER.

YOU TAKE THAT AND SPLIT IT INTO OCTABAND.

SPLIT THE ENERGY AND PUT IT INTO THE OBJECTING IT DAVE BANDS.

# 1 HERTZ. THE FIRST BAND WE TALK ABOUT.

ONLY 42 DB OF SOUND IN THAT BAND.

LET ME GET THE POINTER OUT HERE. 42 DB OF 31.5 HERTZ SOUND.

83 DB OF 63 HERTZ. AND 62 OF 125 AND SO ON.

YOU LOOK AT THAT. IT IS A LITTLE BASE HEAVY AND ROLLS OFF OF HIGHER FREQUENCY. THIS IS ACTUALLY MUSIC THAT I HAVE RECORDED. THE VERTICAL SCALE IS YOUR DECIBELS, AMPLITUDE AND HOW LOUD IT IS.

UNWEIGHTED. THIS IS SPLIT UP.

IF YOU ADD UP ALL THESE NUMBERS, 80, 92, 80 AND 75, YOU GET TO 94. THINK BACK WHEN WE WERE TALKING EARLIER OF ADDING DES SI BELLS. LOOK AT THIS FIRST HOW DOES IT ALL ADD UP TO JUST 94, BUT THAT IS HOW DECIBELS WORK.

THE HIGHEST NUMBER 92 PRETTY MUCH THE ONE THAT CONTROLS THE TOTAL WITH A LITTLE EXTRA ADDED FROM THE OTHER ONES WHAT YOU HAVE AND GUYS IN THE NOISE ORDINANCE A A WEIGHTING AND A C WEIGHTING. YOU ARE APPLYING A FILTER TO THE OCTAVE BANDS. NOW THE HUMAN EAR DOES NOT LET ME TURN HAD OFF, THE HUMAN EAR DOES NOT HEAR FREQUENCIES AS

[01:35:04]

10 DB IS PLAINLY AUDIBLE. TOO.

TWICE AS LOUD. FREQUENCY.

IF I WERE TO PLAY A 60 DB AT 63 HERTZ AND A 60 DB AT 1,000 HERTZ. YOU WOULD SAY THE 1,000 HERTZ IS MUCH LOUDER BECAUSE MORE FREQUENTLY TO HIGH FREQUENT SOUNDS. AND OUR EAR IS SHAPED TO AMPLIFY HIGHER FREQUENCY SOUNDS. AND WE ARE HUMANS AND COMMUNICATE WITH SPEECH AND DON'T GENERATE LOW FREQUENCY SOUNDS AS HUMANS. OUR EARS HAVE EVOLVED FOR HIGHER FREQUENCY SOUND WITH MORE CLARITY APPLY THESE FILTERS OR WEIGHTING. OPINION A WEIGHTING AND C WEIGHTING INTO THESE OCTAVE BANDS.

THE FIRST TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE BETTER WAY HUMANS PERCEIVE THE LOUDNESS OF SOUNDS. THE TWO MOST COMMON ARE THE A WEIGHTING AND THE C WEIGHTING. IF YOU LOOK AT THIS YOU HAVE YOUR -- YOU LOOK AT THIS AS THE ZERO LINE.

ZERO DB. YU DON'T CHANGE IT AT ALL BECAUSE FLAT. IT IS WHAT IT IS.

THE A REASON RATING FILTER, YOU REDUCE THE LEVEL THAT YOU MEASURE IN THE 31.5 HERTZ BAN BY 39 DB.

REDUCE THE 63 BY 26. REDUCE THE 125 BY 15 AND THIS ONE BY 9 AND SO ON AND ADD A LITTLE MORE TO HIGHER FREQUENCIES. BECAUSE WE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO HIGHER FREQUENCIES. THIS CURVE THE WAY WE PERCEIVE THE LOUDNESS OF SONGS. AND IF WE LOOK AT THE C WEIGHTING. VERY LOW REDUCTION AND OTHER THAN THAT PRETTY MUCH FLAT. PRETTY MUCH DOING THE SAME THING AND NO ONE REALLY USES THE Z. MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THE C.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN IF WE GO BACK TO OUR EXAMPLE OF THE -- OF THE OCTAVE BANDS. WHAT THE METER IS DOING WHEN YOU TAKE THE MEASUREMENT ALL ON ITS OWN SUB TRACTS THE 39 FROM THE 42 IN THIS BAND. THE 26 IN THE SECOND BAND.

IT SUBTRACTS THE 16 IN THIS BAND AND SO ON AND YOU GET A WHOLE NEW SET OF NUMBERS AND YOU ADD THOSE NUMBERS TOGETHER AND NOW IT IS 87. WHAT WAS 94 FLAT IS 97 A WEIGHT.

SO THAT IS EASIER LATER WHEN YOU COMPARE 87 DBA VERSUS 77 DB.

YOU WILL KNOW THAT THE 87 WILL BE PERCEIVED AS LOUDER TO YOU.

WHEREAS WITH THE FLAT WEIGHTING, WHEN YOU COMPARE TWO DIFFERENT NUMBERS, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHICH ONE IS LOUDER THAN THE OTHER. THIS IS WHY THE A WEIGHTING IS USED. THE PROBLEM WITH THEA WEIGHTING, A LOT OF REDUCTION. LOWER FREQUENCIES AND DEVALUES THE SOUNDS. EVEN THOUGHER IN NOT LOUD TO PEOPLE, THEY TEND TO BE MORE ANNOYING WHEN THEY COME INTO YOUR HOUSE AND VIBRATING THE STRUCTURE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

WE DON'T WANT TO IGNORE THEM ENTIRELY AND WHY WE USE THE C WEIGHTING. WITH THE C WEIGHTING, YOU ARE BARELY REMOVING DES SI BELLS FROM THE LOW FREQUENCY.

LITTLE BIT HERE AND THERE. 94.

THE SAME SOUND A 97 DBB. NO CHANGES BUT THE WAY YOU CALCULATE BASED ON THE WEIGHTING NETWORKS.

AN A WEIGHT OF SOUND LEVEL IS COMMONLY USED IN NOISE ORDINANCE. THE NUMBER ONE METRIC USED IN NOISE ORDINANCES IF THEY ARE USING A METRIC AT ALL.

SOMETIMES THEY SAY PLAINLY AUDIBLE AND THROW THEIR HANDS UP IN THE AIR AND GIVE UP ON TAKING MEASUREMENTS.

THE C WEIGHT IS MORE COMMON AND A BIG ISSUE HERE IN FLORIDA BECAUSE A LOT OF PLACES WANT TO HAVE OUTDOOR MUSIC IN BARS AND RESTAURANTS AND YOU STA START TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE BASE MUSIC AND WHAT MOST EVERYONE COMPLAINS ABOUT.

AS YOU SAW EARLIER, HIGH FREQUENCY SOUNDS ARE KNOCKED BY WALLS AND BARRIERS AND THE LOCAL FREQUENT COME THROUGH WITH THE WAVELENGTHS. WHENEVER YOU HAVE A LARGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE A WEIGHTED AND THE C WEIGHTED.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF MUSIC IN THE SOURCE.

IT IS KIND OF BASE HEAVY. THE C WEIGHTED SOUND LEVEL IS GOOD TO USE BECAUSE LIMITS THE LOW OCTAVE SOUND LEVELS AND YOU

[01:40:01]

HIT THE 60 BEFORE YOU EVEN HIT THE 65.

YOU DON'T NEED THEM UNLESS YOU MAKE THEM LOWER.

SO I WANT TO PLAY THIS FOR YOU. BECAUSE THIS IS A AUDIO DEMONSTRATION PART OF THIS WHERE PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK -- THEY ASK HOW LOUD IS 60 DBA 50 DBC. THE DBC WILL CONTROL EVERY.

WHEN YOU GET RID OF THE DBZ. THE DBZ WILL CONTROL EVERYTHING UNTIL THEN, BUT DBC WILL CONTROL EVERYTHING BECAUSE MORE RESTRICTED. THE A WEIGHTING IS NOT DOING A WHOLE LOT FOR YOU. BUT A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE GO OUT AND MEASURE THE A WEIGHTING AND THAT'S IT OR THEY THINK THE C WEIGHT SOMETHING USED UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.

I WILL PLAY A CLIP -- JIMMY BUFFETT PLAYING "MARGARITAVILLE." I WILL LIMIT -- SHOULD BE UP HERE AT THIS POSITION HERE IN THE FRONT, 60 DBA.

BUT 63 DBC. NOT MUCH MORE BASS BECAUSE JIMMY BUFFETT AND NO BASS GUITAR AND BIG DRUMS. THIS IS WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE. AND I WILL LOWER IT DOWN TO MEET THE 60 DBC LIMIT. TAKE THE A WEIGHTING DOWN.

THIS IS 60 DBA. ♪ SPONGE CAKE ♪

♪ WATCHING THE SUN BAKE ♪ >>> THIS WOULD BE LIKE WHAT YOU WOULD HEAR AT A PROPERTY LINE AND BE ACCEPTABLE, JUST BARELY.

♪ ♪ ♪ STRUMMING MY SIX STRING ♪

>> IT WILL BE OVER SOON ♪ ♪

>>> THIS IS TAKING DOWN THREE DBB.

A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT, YOU NOTICE A LITTLE BIT OF REDUCTION BUT WALKING BY WITH A BEER OR SOMETHING AND HEARD THAT, YOU WOULD PROBABLY NOT REALIZE IT WAS QUIETER THAN THE OTHER ONE.

THIS IS MEETING YOUR NOISE ORDINANCE IN FULL BECAUSE IT IS 60 DBC COMPLIANT. NOW WE ARE GOING TO PLAY SOME ROCK MUSIC, A LITTLE MELLOW, BUT IT HAS -- IT IS RED-HOT CHILI PEPPERS. FLEA ON BASE AND A LITTLE BIT OF BASE MUSIC AND 10 DB MORE THAN DBA.

♪ LIKE I DID THAT DAY ♪ ♪ TAKE ME TO THE PLACE I LOVE ♪ ♪ TAKE ME ALL THE WAY ♪ ♪ I DON'T EVER WANT TO BE ♪

♪ LIKE I DID THAT DAY ♪ >> YOU COULD HEAR THE BASS GUITAR MORE THAN THE PREVIOUS ONE ♪ TAKE IT ALL AWAY ♪

>>> SO THIS WILL BE 10 DB DOWN FROM THAT TO MEET THE 60 DBC.

[LOWER] ♪ LIKE I DID THAT DAY ♪

>> HALF AS LOUD. THE HALF FREQUENCY IS HALF AS LOUD AND THE BASS IS CONTROLLING AND PUSHING THE HIGH FREQUENCY.

UNLESS YOU EQUALIZE IT AND TAKE THE BASS OUT AND THE MUSIC IS NOT THAT GOOD. NOW WE WILL PLAY A BASS -- HIP-HOP TYPE TRACT. I DON'T KNOW THE ARTIST.

BUT 18 DB. HERE WE ARE MEETING THE 60 DB.

♪ LOOK ALIVE, LOOK ALIVE ♪ >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: COMES

AROUND MY HOUSE EVERY NIGHT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU SHOULD KNOW IT BY HEART. [LAUGHTER]<

>>. >> YOU FEEL THE BASS.

♪ ♪ NOW WE WILL PUSH IT DOWN TO 60 DBC.

SO TO GET THAT BASS TO MEET THE LIMIT, YOU LOSE EVERYTHING ELSE, RIGHT. IT IS SO IMPALED.

SO BASS HEAVY. IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE THAT THAT BASS RIGHT THERE IS THE SAME AS THE PREVIOUS ONE WE HEARD, 60 DBC. SO TALKING OF SOUND PROPAGATION

[01:45:07]

FIRST YOU HAVE THE DIRECT PATH TO THIS RECEIVER AROUND A DIRECT PATH TO THAT DEVELOPER. AS LONG AS THERE IS NOTHING IN THE WAY, RIGHT. A REFLECTED SOUND BATH OFF OF THE GROUND. OTHER BUILDINGS.

OVERHEAD PLANES, PERHAPS. SO IF WE INTRODUCE A SOLID BARRIER IN BETWEEN, THE DIRECT PATH TO THIS ONE.

THE DIRECT PATH TO THIS ONE IS SHIELDED.

CREATES A SHADOW ZONE AT THIS RECEIVER LOCATION.

RIGHT, THIS IS THE WHOLE IDEA. BUT YOU DO HAVE WHAT IS CALLED A DETRACKED SOUND. SOUND WILL HIT THE TOP OF THE WALL AND STARTS A NEW WAVE THAT RADIATES IN ALL DIRECTIONS.

SAME GETTING TO THE RECEIVER. THE WALLS ARE NOT 100% EFFECTIVE. AND NOW BY BUILDING THAT WALL, YOU CREATED REFLECTIVE PAST IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.

I HAD A PROJECT ONE TIME -- IT WAS A PICKLEBALL COURT.

AND THEY HIRED ME TO DESIGN TO BARRIER FOR THEIR PICKLEBALL.

AND I HAD TOLD THEM TO PUT THE BARRIER ON THREE SIDES AND MAKE IT ABSORBENT. AND THEN THE INITIAL PRODUCT THEY WANTED TO USE WAS NOT SOUND ABSORBENT, IT WAS REFLECTED.

I SAID DON'T USE THAT PROJECT. USE THIS OTHER ONE WITH SOUND-ABSORBING QUALITIES. YEAR LATER I GET A CALL AND THEY DECIDED TO USE THE REFLECTED ONE INSTEAD BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAPER, BY DOING THAT, THEY FOCUSED ALL THE SOUND ACROSS THE WATER TO ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEY STARTED COMPLAINING OF THE PICKLEBALL AND ENDED UP IN FRONT OF THE CITY COUNCIL BECAUSE OF THIS. YOU CAN CREATE WALLS THAT SOLVE PROBLEM. SOLVE ONE PROBLEM AND CREATE ANOTHER PROBLEM. SOMETHNG TO BE AWARE OF.

DIRECT, REFLECTED AND DETRACTED AND SOUND LIMIT.

AND SOME PEOPLE WONDER WHEN THEY BUILD A FENCE, THEY CAN HEAR ON OTHER SIDE FENCE. NOT HEAVY ENOUGH TO STOP THE SOUND AND IT GOES RIGHT THROUGH. LIKE A ROW OF BUSHES.

A VISUAL BARRIER. NOT LIKE AN ACTUAL ACOUSTIC BARRIER. ANOTHER WAY THE SOUND GETS THERE. SOUND TRAVELS THROUGH -- WE CALL THIS THE RETRACTED. SOUND TRAVELS THROUGH COOLER AIR FINANCED IN THE DIRECTION OF SLOWER SOUND SPEED.

SO WHEN WE HAVE WHAT IS CALLED A TEMPERATURE LAPSE WHERE YOU HAVE WARMER AIR BELOW AND COOLER AIR ABOVE WHICH IS PRETTY TYPICAL.

COOLER THE HIGHER UP YOU GO IN ELEVATION.

YOU HAVE YOUR DIRECT PATH THAT GOES FROM THE SOURCE OF THE RECEIVER AND YOUR OTHER SOUND WAVES -- BECAUSE SOUND PROP GATES GEE MGEOMETRICALLY AND TH SLOWER SPEED, THE COOLER AIR UP TOP. WHEN YOU HAVE A WALL THEN, YOU CAN SHIELD THIS RECEIVER AND THE REST OF THE SOUND WILL GO UP AND AWAY INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. HOWEVER, WHEN YOU HAVE WHAT IS CALLED A TEMPERATURE INVERSION, WHAT YOU GET OVER WATER, IN THE COOLER MONTHS WHERE YOU HAVE THE WARMER AIR UP ABOVE AND COOLER AIR DOWN BELOW. THEN YOU HAVE YOUR DIRECT PATH STILL, BUT NOW YOU HAVE SOUND BENDING BACK DOWN TOWARD THE EARTH, TOWARD THE -- THE SLOWER SPEED, RIGHT.

THE COOLER AIR. THAT CAUSE AS PROBLEM AND YOU BUILD YOUR BARRIER AND GREAT AND REFRACKED SOUND.

AND THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WILL HAPPEN 100 FEET.

LONGER DISTANCES THIS HAPPENS. I LIVE LIKE A MILE FROM A HIGHWAY AND SOMETIMES OF THE YEAR IT SOUNDS LIKE THE HIGHWAY IS IN MY BACK YARD. OTHER TIMES I DON'T HEAR ANYTHING. THAT IS KIND OF WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE. AND YOU CAN GET VERY LARGE SWINGS IN SOUND LEVELS DEPEND ON THE TIME OF DAY.

I HAD A PROJECT THAT WAS A WOOD CHIPPING PLANT.

WE WANT TO RUN THIS 24 HOURS A DAY AND GIVING US GRIEF AND WE WANT TO YOU COME OUT HERE YOU THE GUY IS A MILE AWAY.

MEET ME OUT HERE 12:00 IN THE AFTERNOON.

LET'S MEET AT 6:30 IN THE MORNING.

OKAY. GO OUT THERE AND FIRE IT UP.

HEAR IT AS PLAIN OF DAY. 60 DB QUIETER BECAUSE OF THE TEMPERATURE INVERSION CHANGES. YOU MIGHT GET IN YOUR NOISE ORDINANCE, A LIMIT YOU HAVE TO IMPOSE, BUT MIGHT DEPEND ON THE TIME OF DAY YOU GO OUT THERE THAT YOU FIND THE VIOLATION OR NOT. SAME THING WITH WIND.

[01:50:02]

IF YOUR SOUND WILL BEND OR RETRACT IN THE DIRECTION OF THE LOWER WIND SPEED. PROPAGATED AGAINST THE WIND AND WIND COMING FROM LEFT TO RIGHT A SHADOW BAND, BUT DOWN WIND WILL PUSH IT TOWARD THE EARTH AND MAKE IT LOUDER THAN OTHERWISE.

WHEN YOU HAVE OUTSIDE MUSE -- AGAIN 500 FEET OR MORE DISTANCE, 1,000 FEET. A COMBINATION OF TEMPERATURE INVERSIONS PLUS WIND THAT CAN REALLY BOOST THE SIGNAL WAY MORE THAN YOU WOULD EVER GET JUST FROM CALCULATING IT BY 50, 20 DB. SO WHAT IS THE BIG IDEA? THE OUTDOOR SOUND FIELD CAN BE COMPLEX.

MULTIPLE SOURCE OF SOUND, SOUND PATHS, DIRECT, REFRACTED.

TEMPERATURE GRADIENT, WIND GRADIENT.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THE SOUND PATHS WHEN ENFORCING SOUND LIMITS BECAUSE THE SAME SOUND LIMIT CAN RESULT AT DIFFERENT TIMES OF DAY UNDER DIFFERENT CONDITIONS.

SOMEONE MIGHT CALL SAY I HEAR THIS THING ALL THE TIME.

IT IS WAKING ME UP. 10:00 AT NIGHT.

I CAN'T GO TO SLEEP AND YOU GO OUT IN THE I CAN'T HAVE 2:00 IN THE AFTERNOON, WE ARE NOT GETTING A VIOLATION.

YOU HAVE TO GO WHEN THE PROBLEM IS BECAUSE -- THAT IS WHEN THE CONDITIONS ARE THE SAME. SO FACTORS THAT INFLUENCE OUTDOOR SOUND PROPAGATION. YOU HAVE DISTANCE.

DISTANCE IS NUMBER ONE. THAT IS THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS PUT DISTANCE BETWEEN A SOURCE AND A RECEIVER.

SOUND REDUCES ABOUT 5 TO 6 DB. IN THEORY 6 DB PER DOUBLING OF DISTANCE. YOU HAVE GROUND EFFECTS THAT CAN ENHANCE OR REFUSE THE SOUND. YOU HAVE GRASS OR THICK ABSORBENT SURFACE VERSUS A HARD PAVEMENT.

AND YOU HAVE FOLIAGE THAT PEOPLE OFTEN ASK, WELL, WHAT IF WE PUT A ROW OF BUSHES AND TREES, WE HAVE 100 FEET OF DENSE WOODS TO MAKE INROADS OF REDUCING SOUND. PUT A ROW OF BUSHES OR PLANTS UP IS MORE OF A PSYCHOLOGICAL THING FOR PEOPLE.

THEY THINK THEY DON'T SEE THE SOUND AND MAYBE THEY DON'T HEAR IT. AND THEN, OF COURSE, PHYSICAL BARRIERS CAN GET YOU 5 TO 20 DB REDUCTION.

DEPEVENDZ ON THE FREQUENCY. AS YOU SAW BEFORE A WALL WILL HELP WITH HIGHER FREQUENT SOUNDS AND 20 TEE DEE FROM A WALL WITH HIGHER FREQUENCY BUT ONLY 5 WITH LOW FREQUENCY SOUNDS BECAUSE THEY GO RIGHT OVER. SAME THING WITH BERMS AND BUILDINGS. AIR ATTENUATION.

TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY DEPENDENT BUT NOT THAT IMPORTANT AND TEMPERATURE AND WIND GRADINGS CAN INFLUENCE THE LEVELS THAT YOU MEASURE AND FINALLY REFLECTIONS OFF BUILDINGS A BUILDING BETWEEN YOU AND THE SOUND AND YOU SWEAR YOU CAN HEAR IT AND ITS REFLECTING OFF A BIG BUILDING AND ONLY BEING REDUCED BY A COUPLE OF DB BECAUSE OF DISTANCE.

WE HAVE TOOLS FOR REDUCING OUTDOOR SOUND PROPAGATION.

AT THE SOURCE, OF COURSE, YOU CAN REDUCE THE SOURCE SOUND LEVEL. THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO BECAUSE ONCE YOU GET OUT IN THE ENVIRONMENT IT IS HARDER TO CONTROL. YOU CONTROL IT AT THE SOURCE BY USING QUIETER EQUIPMENT AND PROVIDING NOISE MITIGATION LIKE AN ENCLOSURE AROUND THE EQUIPMENT.

IN THE CASE OF MUSIC, TURNING THE VOLUME DOWN.

OR TURNING SPECIFIC OCTAVE BANDS TO GET THE BASE OUT WHICH IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. YOU CAN RESTRICT THE DAY AND TIME OF USE. YOU HAVE THAT IN YOUR NOISE ORDINANCE. YOU CAN PROVIDE FULLER OR PARTIAL ENCLOSURES AROUND THE SOURCE.

YOU CAN CHANGE THE ORIENTATION. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS REAL IMPORTANT FOR SPEAKERS, BECAUSE NOT SO MUCH FOR WOOFERS.

SOME ARE WHAT WE CALL OMNI DIRECTIONAL.

NO MATTER IT IS THE SAME SOUND IN ALL DIRECTIONS, PRETTY MUCH.

THE HIGHER FREQUENCY SOUNDS, YOU CAN AIM THEM AND DIRECT THEM AND THEY DECAY A LOT WHEN YOU MOVE AWAY FROM THE CENTER ACCESS.

ALONG THE PATH, YOU HAVE DISTANCE.

SO THIS LITTLE DEMONSTRATION HERE TO SHOW YOU.

LET'S SAY WE HAVE A SPEAKER, A LOUD SPEAKER THAT IS PLAYING MUSIC AND GO AND MEASURE 50 FEET AWAY.

WHATEVER WE MEASURE. CALL THAT ZERO FOR NOW.

EVERY TIME YOU DOUBLE THE DISTANCE YOU SUBTRACT 6 DB.

100 FEET, 6 DB. 200, ANOTHER 6.

[01:55:04]

# 200 FEET DOWN 36 DB. WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS FROM 50 TO 400 FEET. YOU DROPPED 18 DECIBELS.

TO DROP ANOTHER, 800. THE FIRST BIT OF DIFFERENCE IS VERY IMPORTANT AND GETTING -- ALWAYS GOES BACK TO PLANNING.

THE NOISE ORDINANCE CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH, IT IS ABOUT PLANNING AND MAKING SURE THAT YOU ARE NOT PUTTING THESE THINGS SO CLOSE TOGETHER THAT YOU HAVE TO USE EXTREME NOISE MITIGATION MEASURES TO TRY TO STOP IT. THE DISTANCE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO A POINT, RIGHT.

AT SOME POINT, YOUR -- YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO A LOT FARTHER AWAY JUST TO GET -- WE TALKED OF 5 DB IS NOTICEABLE REDUCTION.

GO FROM THE MINUS 30 T TO MINUS 36.

A QUARTER MILE AWAY TO KNOW IT IS QUIETER.

THE OTHER 50 FEET AWAY. FIRST COUPLE HUNDRED FEET IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO GET BETWEEN A SOURCE AND A RECEIVER.

LIKE A BAR AND A RESTAURANT AND SOME APARTMENT BUILDING AND SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. SO, AGAIN, WITH THE PATH, YOU HAVE BARRIERS, 5 TO 20 DB REDUCTION.

AT THE RECEIVE, YOU CAN DO UPGRADES TO YOUR BUILDING AND THE OTHER OPTION. I HAVE CLIENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE PUTTING IN RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS NEAR NOISY PLACES.

SO FIRST, THEY HAVE TO TRY TO DEMONSTRATE THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO STOP ENOUGH OF THE SOUND THAT THE -- THAT THE HOMES WON'T EXCEED EXPOSED TO A CERTAIN LEVEL AND BEYOND THAT THEY CAN DECIDE IF THEY WANT TO PUT BETTER WINDOWS, BETTER DOORS, BETTER ROOFS AND ALL THAT TO GO FURTHER ON THE RECEIVING SIDE.

SO I AM GOING TO SHOW YOU A QUICK LITTLE CASE STUDY OF THE PROJECT I DID IN NEW ORLEANS A WHILE BACK.

AND SO THIS WAS A LITTLE OUTDOOR EVENT SPACE IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. AND BUILT THIS LITTLE STAGE SHELL AND LITTLE WINGS ON EACH SIDE.

THIS IS, LIKE, THE DANCE FLOOR BASICALLY.

HAS A LITTLE WOODEN FENCE AROUND THAT IS KIND OF DILAPIDATED.

THEY HAVEN'T FINISHED PUTTING THE ROOF ON IT AT THE TIME.

AND SO WHAT WAS PROPOSED -- RIGHT AROUND THERE WERE HOMES ON THREE OF THE SIDES. WHAT THEY HD PROPOSED WAS A COUPLE OF THINGS. OR WE HAD PROPOSED.

ONE THAT THEY WOULD STACK SHIPPING CONTAINERS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THIS PROPERTY AS A BARRIER WALL LIKE TWO HIGH.

IT WAS KIND OF AN ARTSY PLACE. NEW ORLEANS.

EVERYTHING GOES OVER THERE. TRUST ME.

IT WAS LIKE OPTION ONE. AND THEN OPTION TWO WAS KIND OF BEEF UP THE -- THE -- THE WALL TO BE AN ACTUAL WALL, BUT THE -- THE ORDINANCE LIMITED IT TO SEVEN FEET.

YOU COULDN'T GO ANY HIGHER. AND THE THIRD WAS TO RAISE THE SIDE WALLS OF THIS ENCLOSURE OF THE -- OF THE SHELL TO TRY TO KEEP THE SOUND FOCUSED MORE, YOU KNOW, IN FRONT OF THEM.

AND SO THIS IS ACTUALLY A 3D COMPUTER MODEL THAT WE DO -- OR WE CAN BUILD THE SITE IN THREE DIMENSIONS USING THE TOPOGRAPHY AND THE GROUND CHARACTERISTICS AND THE BUILDINGS AND IT WILL PROPAGATE OUT NOISE CONTOURS. WHAT YOU WILL SEE NEXT.

THIS IS THE -- THE BAND SHELL RIGHT HERE.

THESE ARE THE SURROUNDING HOMES RIGHT HERE.

THIS IS A COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT.

AND THE COLORS SHOW GREEN BASICALLY -- GREEN MEANS GO, 60 DB. ORANGE IS 65 TO 70.

YEAH, 65 TO 70. DARKER ORANGE IS 70 TO 75 UNTIL THE RED-HOT WHICH IS 80 TO 90 DB.

WE BEGIN IT FOR 85 DB AT THE -- AT THE DANCE FLOOR, WHICH IS PRETTY HIGH LEVEL. NOT THE KIND OF LEVEL YOU CAN HAVE EAT DINNER AND ENJOY A MEAL, BUT IF YOU WERE TRYING TO DANCE AT A WEDDING RECEPTION OR SOMETHING.

YOU CAN SEE THE SOUND IS SPILLING EVERYWHERE, GOING TO THE HOMES HERE. THE PROPERTY LINE OF THIS HOME HERE. RED AND ORANGE IN THERE.

THE FIRST STEP WAS TO PUT IN THESE BIG SHIPPING CONTAINERS AND BLOCKED ALL THE SOUND GOING TO THIS DIRECTION.

AND SQUEAKING OUT OVER TO THE SIDES AND THE BACK AND ACROSS THE STREET STILL. AND THEN WE BUILT THE WALLS, SOLID WALLS AROUND THREE SIDES AND PULL IT.

[02:00:03]

SO THESE THINGS CAN BE STUDIED AT THIS LEVEL.

THE REASON I BRING THIS UP IS -- YOU KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS WE RECOMMEND IS THE NOISE ORDINANCE IS NOT -- IS NOT EVER GOING TO BE THE TOOL TO SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS. PLANNING IS GOING TO BE THE TOOL.

AND PART OF APPROVALS FOR A -- A VENUE THAT YOU KNOW WILL HAVE AMPLIFIED MUSIC IN THE VICINITY OF RESIDENCES.

AND BY VICINITY 1,000 FEET OR 2,000 FEET IF IT IS A HIGHLY AMPLIFIED VENUE. JIMMY BUFFETT AT 60 DB.

500 FEET OR 300 FEET OR SOMETHING BUT IF SOME OUTDOOR VENUE LIKE THIS, YOU WILL NEED A LOT MORE DISTANCE.

PART OF THE APPROVAL PROCESS IS TO REQUIRE THAT A STUDY OF THIS NATURE -- MAYBE NOT THIS SOPHISTICATED BUT A NOISE STUDY TO BE DONE THAT THEY WILL COMPLY WITH THE NOISE ORDINANCE BEFORE YOU GET A C.O. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THEY HAVE TO SUBMIT A NOISE MITIGATION OR SOUND CONTROL PLAN.

WE WILL HAVE THIS MANY SPEAKERS ORIENTED IN THIS DIRECTION.

WE WON'T PAY LOUDER THAN THIS THIS LEVEL AT THIS LOCATION.

SOUND ABSORBING AND BUILD A BARRIER WALL.

AND A TRUE STUDY HAS BEEN DONE, YOU HAVE THAT AS A MATTER OF RECORD COMMITTED OF ITTING TO THESE THINGS AND REASONABLE CHANCE OF SUCCESS AND IF WORSE COMES TO WORSE, YOU CAN ALWAYS TURN THE VOLUME DOWN. THAT KIND OF CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION, AND I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

LIKE I SAID, I HAVE MICROPHONE HERE AND SOUND LEVEL HERE WITH ME. I HAVE MUSIC IF WE WANT.

IF YOU WANTED TO HEAR DIFFERENT THINGS AND GET A SENSE OF DIFFERENT SOUNDS, I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO DIAL SOMETHING UP FOR

YOU. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: WHAT THE DECIBEL OF THE NOISE I HEAR RIGHT NOW.

I HEAR -- I HEAR SOMETHING RIGHT NOW.

>> YEAH, THAT IS THE BUZZ IN THAT -- PROBABLY THE AC UNIT UP THERE. BUT THAT IS THE BUZZ IN THE SPEAKERS. THAT IS RIGHT NOW A-WEIGHTED.

41 DBA IN HERE. BUT THAT PARTICULAR TONE.

HAS -- THAT PARTICULAR TONE IS PROBABLY RIGHT AROUND 40.

KIND OF WHAT YOU ARE HEARING. AND I WOULD BE HAPPY TO PLAY -- VERY LOW BASS SOUNDS THAT YOU COULD -- COULD SENSE ARE PROBABLY PROBLEMATIC BUT AREN'T VERY LOUD.

THAT IS THE MAIN THING THAT PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT.

THEY SAYS IT NOT LOUD. BUT I HEAR IT.

AND IT IS -- IT IS SHAKING THINGS IN MY HOUSE.

AND YOU GO OUT AND MEASURE IT, IT IS REALLY NOT THAT LOUD,

ESPECIALLY WITH A DBA. >>MAYOR HUDSON: ANY OTHER

QUESTIONS? >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, I HAVE A QUESTION. YOU MENTIONED IN OUR ACTUAL ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW THAT WE HAVE, WE PRESSURED DBA AND C.

YOU DEPOSIT STATE WHERED LEVELS OF A AND C AND FREQUENCY AND I KIND OF GOT THAT PART, BUT I GUESS OUR LEVEL OF MEASUREMENT THAT WE USE WHEN THE POLICE CALLED AND THEY HAVE A SOUND-MEASURING DEVICE. CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK ON WHAT -- OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T HAVE THE SOPHISTOFICATION A THROUGHC.

>> YOU ARE OUT THERE MEASURING DBA AND DBC.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE MEASURING THEM BOTH.

LIKE WITH MY SOUND LEVEL METER, THEY BOTH REGISTER STATEMENT.

A, C, Z, EVERY SECOND IF YOU WANT TO.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOUR METER DOES THAT OR MEASURE WITH THE A AND SWITCH TO THE C OR IF -- IF THEY DON'T EVEN USE THE C, BECAUSE THE WAY THAT I -- THE WAY THAT I -- SO I SAW THE PRESENTATION THAT WAS GIVEN EIGHT YEARS AGO WHEN THIS NOISE ORDINANCE WAS INTRODUCED. THE WAY IT WAS EXPLAINED ABOUT WHEN TO DUES A AND C AND Z WASN'T EXACTLY TECHNICALLY CORRECT. AND SO -- BUT I THINK THAT THE IMPRESSION THAT WAS GIVEN THAT YOU USE A OR UNAMPLIFIED AND C

[02:05:06]

YOU USE THEM FOR ANYTHING. ANY TIME YOU MEASURE A SOUND YOU MEASURE ALL THINGS AT ONCE. C IS ALWAYS THE MOST RESTRICTED, THAT WILL CONTROL. YOU LOOK ON THE SCREEN IN THE COLUMNS, SOUND LIMIT DBA IS 60 OPINION IF SOUND LEVEL DBC IS 60 AND DBZ IS 60. THE TOP ROW THERE.

THE Z IS NOT REALLY USEFUL. THE C WILL CONTROL 99% OF THE TIME. SO NORMALLY WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IN AN ORDINANCE IS SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE A AND C OF MAYBE FIVE DB. ALLOW A LITTLE BIT OF BASS LIKE THE JIMMY BUFFETT STUFF. 60 DB IS OKAY.

AND SOMETIMES YOU SEAL A 10 DB DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DBA AND THE DBC. IT IS RARE TO SEE THEM THE SAME.

BECAUSE IT IS ALMOST POINTLESS THAT THE A MIGHT AS WELL BE 55 OR 50 IN THIS CASE. SO THE C IS THE MAIN THING THAT

IS CONTROLLING THERE. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: C IS BY THE LOW FREQUENCY, WHAT I CALL THE BASS PART.

>> ALLOWS THE BASS TO BE MEASURED.

THE A TRIES TO IGNORE AND C KNOWS IT IS THERE AND IT WILL BE WITHIN THIS NUMBER AND NOW YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I UNDER STAFF THE BASS AND PULSATION. THE SOUND AND CLEARLY GET THAT PART AND UNDERSTAND THAT. I GUESS THE OTHER PART THAT I LEARNED HERE TODAY IS DIRECTIONALLY WHERE SPEAKERS FACE WILL BE A WAY TO MITIGATE THAT SOUND TOO IS DIRECTIONAL.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THE HIGHER FREQUENCY.

YOU NEED TO TURN IT DOWN BASICALLY.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THAT TEMPERATURE, RIGHT.

OBVIOUSLY LATER IN THE EVENING -- AS THE SUN DROPS, TEMPERATURE RISES A LITTLE BIT. AND THAT PLAY AS FACTOR INTO HOW

THAT SOUND WILL TRAVEL. >> CERTAIN TIMES A YEAR FOR SURE A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DAYTIME AND NIGHTTIME SOUND TRAVEL AT DISTANCES OF 500 FEET OR MORE. NOT LIKE IF IT IS YOUR NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR. THE THING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE WAY THEY MEASURE SOUND IS IT IS AN INSTANTANEOUS MEASUREMENT.

YOU WATCH THE METERS AND NUMBERS ARE CHANGING CONSTANTLY.

NEVER THE SAME LEVEL BECAUSE MUSIC IS UP AND DOWN, RIGHT.

AND SOMETHING WITH A CONSTANT MECHANICAL NOISE LEVEL AND MOVING UP AND DOWN AND THE WAY YOURS IS BEING A LIMIT IS WAITING FOR THE ONE TIME IT GOES OVER.

I AM ASSUMING THAT IS HOW IT IS ENFORCED HOW YOU WOULD DO IT AND IF IT HITS 60, THEN A VIOLATION, KIND OF LIKE A SPEED LIMIT.

YOU CAN GET CLOSE, BUT AS SOON AS YOU GO OVER, YOU ARE OVER.

OTHER WAYS OF DOING THAT ARE TO AVERAGE SOUND OVER SOME LENGTH OF TIME A 30-SECOND AVERAGE OR ONE-MINUTE AVERAGE THAT TAKES OUT THE FLUCTUATION IN THE NOISE AND KIND OF EASY TO READ THAT WAY. THE ISSUE WITH DOING IT INSTANTANEOUSLY, THE MOST RESTRICTED WAY TO DO IT WHICH IS FINE, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO, NOW, WHAT I TALKED ABOUT EARLIER WITH AMBIENT PLAYS A ROLE.

YOU ARE OUTDOORS BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC AND MUCH LOUDER WITH THE MUSIC. HARD TO SUBTRACT OUT AN AMBIENT WHEN YOU ARE MEASURING INSTANTANEOUS LIE.

YOU MEASURE THE MUSIC INSTANTANEOUSLY.

WHAT AMBIENT ARE YOU MEASURING BECAUSE IT IS ALSO GOING UP AND DOWN DID IT OCCUR DURING THE LOUDEST MUSIC OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND. IF YOU AVERAGE OVER TIME, ONE-MINUTE AVERAGE OF THE AMBIENT WAS 57.

AND ONE-MINUTE AVERAGE OF THE MUSIC WAS 50.

AND THE MUSIC WAS 57 AND THE TWO COMBINED TO HIT 60.

LOOKING AT INSTANTANEOUS. UP WOULD BE ENCOURAGE TO SEE NOW THE NOISE ORDINANCE WILL BE PRESENTED.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: COMMISSIONER BRODERICK.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: IMPRESSIVE COMBINATION.

IMAGINE CLASSES THAT I TOOK IN SCHOOL THAT I DIDN'T DO TOO WELL

[02:10:01]

IN. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THAT I DROPPED

OUT OF. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: KIND OF CUTTING TO THE FINAL ANALYSIS OF THIS.

YOU INDICATED YOU DID A LOT OF CONSULTING WORK TO MUNICIPALITIES FACING THIS. AND FORT PIERCE IS PROBABLY NOT UNIQUE IN THE FACT THAT THE PLANNING ASPECT OF THIS IS IN THE REAR VIEW MIRROR. SO WE ARE DEALING WITH ESTABLISHMENTS THAT ARE IN OLDER, WELL-ESTABLISHED HISTORICAL NEIGHBORHOODS, ETC., THAT WE NEED TO BE FAIR TO THE COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS AS WELL AS THE RESIDENTS.

YOUR EXPERIENCE OF THAT MUNICI MUNICIPALITIES MAY BE A DRIVING SUGGESTION TO SAY, OKAY, WE DON'T NEED TO RE-CREATE THE WHEEL HERE.

WHAT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF OTHER CLIENTS WHO ARE IN THIS SIMILAR

SITUATION. >> ALWAYS BEEN A MAJOR, MAJOR STRONGLE. ALWAYS DIFFICULT -- I GAVE A PRESENTATION WITH A LAND USE ATTORNEY OUT OF TAMPA THAT I HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK IN THE TAMPA AREA AND SOHO AREA, SOUTH HOWARD WHERE THEY PUT ALL THESE VENUES IN.

AND THEN PEOPLE STARTED COMPLAINING.

AND THEN THEY TRIED TO PASS AN ORDINANCE THAT WENT FROM 60 OR 65 TO PLAINLY AUDIBLE. AND IT WAS GOING TO PUT EVERYBODY OUT OF BUSINESS, RIGHT.

BECAUSE YOU -- YOU HAD A PLAN GOING IN.

WE CAN DO -- WE CAN PLAY MUSIC OUTDOORS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IF YOU HEAR IT WAS A VIOLATION AND THAT GOT OVERTURNED AND THEY HAD TO CIRCLE BACK AROUND AND COME UP WITH ANOTHER NOISE ORDINANCE.

WHAT I WILL SAY IS EACH -- EACH SITUATION IS VERY AUTOPSY PEEK IN. LIKE IN YOUR CASE, YOU HAVE A HISTORIC BUILDING THAT IS NEXT TO A VENUE OR A RESTAURANT THAT PLAYS MUSIC. AND THIS WAS HISTORICALLY BUILT IN A WAY TO KEEP SOUND OUT. A LOT OF LEAKS AND SOUND COMES THROUGH AND NOT PARTICULARLY HEAVY AND THE WINDOWS ARE PROBABLY OLDER AND THIN. AND THERE IS -- THERE ARE THREE APPROACHES. THERE IS -- PUT THE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE ESTABLISHMENT TO KEEP THE NO IS ON THEIR PROPERTY SO IT DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH NORMAL OPERATIONS OR NORMAL LIVING CONDITIONS AT THE RESIDENCE.

PUT THE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE RESIDENCE TO REBUILD A HOUSE AND DEAL WITH THIS OR FIND SOME SORT OF ACCEPTABLE OR MIDDLE GROUND WHERE IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE MUSIC LOUDER THEN YOU HAVE TO YOU SPEND MONEY TO BUILD SOMETHING TO ALLOW TO YOU DO THAT. YOU WANT QUIETER SOUND LEVELS IN YOUR HOME, YOU WILL HAVE TO INVEST IN BETTER WINDOWS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE IT IS QUIETLY EQUALLY SHARED.

IT IS HARD TO SAY WHERE THAT LINE IS TO BE DRAWN IN A ONE

SIZE FITS ALL NOISE ORDINANCE. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: IN A FOLLOW-UP TO THAT, MADAM MAYOR, IF I COULD.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YES. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: ACTUAL LEVEL 60 DBA AND 60 DBC AND Z. IS THAT 60 NUMBER FAIRLY

STANDARD? >> SO WHAT WAS FAIRLY STANDARD FOR A VERY LONG TIME IN MANY NOISE ORDINANCES WAS 55 DBA FOR RESIDENTIAL. 60 FOR COMMERCIAL.

OR YOU WOUL55 AT NIGHT, 65 DURI THE DEADY DEEA.

SOME STRICT ONES 50 AT NIGHT AND 55 DURING THE DAY.

IT IS IN THE BALLPARK AND COMES FROM THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY TO GET 55 DB WAS THE LEVEL REQUIRED TO PROTECT THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF SOME DEGREE OF SAFETY.

AND THIS WAS LIKE A 24-HOUR AVERAGE OF 55.

BUT KIND OF MISS CONSTRUED AND PUT IN A BUNCH OF NOISE ORDINANCES AS A INSTAND STAINIOUS 55.

YOU CAN HEAR THE MUSIC LOUD AND CLEAR AROUND SING ALONG WITH EVERY WORD AND THAT AT YOUR PROPERTY LINE.

AND THOSE -- ONE WAS 50. THE ONE WAS 50 DBA.

THE RED-HOT CHILI PEPPER SONG. YOU CAN HEAR EVERY WORD.

60 IS BUSHING YOUR DBA DOWN LITTLE LOWER AND PROBABLY IN ANY REAL WORLD MEASUREMENT YOU ARE GOING TO DO.

AND KIND OF LIKE YOU HAVE A 55 DBA AND 65 DBC SORT OF.

AND MUCH LOWER DBA IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF BASE IN THE MUSIC, PUSHED DOWN TO 45 OR 50. BUT 630 TDBC IS STRICT OF MOST NOISE ORDINANCES OTHERS THAN THE ONE PLAINLY AUDIBLE AT 50 FEET

[02:15:04]

AND THAT IS GOOD IF YOU WANT TO REGULATE ESPECIALLY BASE SOUNDS AND PROTECT HOMES THAT -- BECAUSE THIS GETS IN THE HOUSE AND DOESN'T HAVE TO BE VERY LOUD TO BE DISTURBING.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SO MISS EARLEY, WE ARE REALLY HERE TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE ARE GOING TO TREAT THE EDGARTOWN, BUT IN THE FUTURE, WE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT OUR NOISE ORDINANCE PERIOD. AM I REMEMBERING THAT CORRECTLY.

>>MS. EARLEY: YES, MA'AM. CERTAIN THINGS, CERTAIN SURGICAL CHANGES WE CAN MAKE TO OUR NOISE ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHART THAT IS UP ON THE SCREEN, THERE IS A GAP IN TIME AFTER 1 P.M. SUNDAY THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT COVERED BY THE CHART. THAT IS A LOOPHOLE THAT I RECOMMEND WE CLOSE VERY SOON. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE IN SHORT ORDER. THERE ARE SOME OTHER LANGUAGE THAT I HAVE SPOKEN WITH OUR EXPERT ABOUT THAT CAN BE EASILY RED LINED. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IN TERMS OF CHANGING IN CHART, IN TERMS OF THE 60 DBA AND DBC, I WILL NOT RECOMMEND THAT WE DO ANYTHING RELATED WITH THAT WITHOUT EXTENSIVE STUDY, BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL AFFECT THE ENTIRE CITY. SO THE QUESTION IS, NOW HAVING HEARD THE SOUND SAMPLES AND HAVING HEARD -- NOT TESTIMONY, BUT A PRESENTATION, FROM SOMEONE HOP BELIEVE CAN BE CALLED AN EXPERT IN THE COURT OF LAW BASED ON HIS TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE.

THE QUESTION IS BASED ON THAT WHETHER THE COMMISSION WOULD WANT TO HOLD EDGARTOWN TO ANY OTHER STANDARD THAN WHAT IS IN OUR NOISE ORDINANCE. SO JUST TO KIND OF REVIEW AND RECAP IN ABOUT THE SPRING OF 2022, WE STARTED RECEIVING INFORMATION THAT THERE WERE COMPLAINTS MADE BY SOME NEIGHBORS IN IT THE EDGARTOWN AREA REGARDING AMPLIFIED SOUND.

I THINK EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM BOTH THE COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENTS AND THE RESIDENTS POINT TO THE FACT THAT WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS POTENTIALLY NOT WORKABLE AND POTENTIALLY CAUSES ME CONCERN FROM A LEGAL DIDN'T AND BASED ON ALL OF THAT, WE HAVE DRAFTED A PROPOSED ORDINANCE THAT TIES OUTDOOR PERFORMANCES IN THE EDGARTOWN ZONING DISTRICT TO OUR NOISE ORDINANCE. AND ALL COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY WITHIN THE DISTRICT TO OUR NOISE ORDINANCE SO THAT IS WHAT REALLY IS IN THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE AND WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO GET DIRECTION ON FROM THE COMMISSION TODAY.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WHAT WAS IN IT BEFORE WAS NOTHING -- TELL ME

WHAT WAS IN IT BEFORE. >>MS. EARLEY: YES, MA'AM.

AS FAR AS OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT WAS CONCERNED, THE WAY THE ORDINANCE WAS WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, IT BANS AMPLIFIED SOUND.

SAYS ACOUSTIC SOUND ONLY FOR LIVE PERFORMANCES SO GOING FROM A STANDARD OF ACOUSTIC ONLY TO A STANDARD OF REGARDLESS OF THE SOURCE, DOES IT COMPORT WITH THE CHART ON THE SCREEN NOW.

AND THERE IS ANOTHER PROVISION IN THE EDGARTOWN ORDINANCE THAT REFERENCES ADVERSE EFFECTS ON NEIGHBORING IT PROPERTIES.

NO REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD RED INTO THAT OR LET ME REPHRASE THAT. NO REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD CONNECTED WITH THAT LANGUAGE. AND BASICALLY SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE A NOISE WITH ADVERSE EFFECT ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTY.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD MAKE THAT MORE -- I THINK WE SHOULD CLARIFY THAT WE ARE MEASURING ALL COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY IN THE DISTRICT TO A REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD.

NOT ADVERSE EFFECTS BECAUSE THAT IS VERY SUBJECTIVE BASED ON THE REC RECEIVER.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: DIFFERENT TIMES IN THE EDGARTOWN?

>>MS. EARLEY: LIMIT ON THE OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT -- LET ME REPHRASE THAT. A LIMITATION BASICALLY ON LIVE ENTERTAINMENT. IT HAS GOT TO END AT 9 P.M. AND THAT IS RETAINED AS FAR AS OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT IN THE AMENDED ORDINANCE. THE PROPOSED AMENDED ORDINANCE

[02:20:07]

ANOTHER MEASURE. >>MS. EARLEY: CORRECT.

CORRECT. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: IS THAT TIME LIMIT CITY. WIDE OR JUST EDGARTOWN?

>>MS. EARLEY: NO, SIR, JUST EDGARTOWN FOR OUTDOOR

ENTERTAINMENT IN EDGARTOWN. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK:

CITYWIDE IS 10:00? >>MS. EARLEY: CITYWIDE, 11:00 WE SWITCH FROM THIS CHART BEFORE YOU AND MORE OF A REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD. WOULD THE SOUND ANNOY, YOU KNOW

-- >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I GUESS THE PATH I AM GOING DOWN HERE IS THAT WOULD IT BE UNREASONABLE TO SUGGEST THAT WE WANT PARITY THROUGHOUT THE CITY? ONE STANDARD TIME, ONE STANDARD DECIBEL, DBA OR DBC LEVEL.

I GUESS GENERIC CITYWIDE. >>MS. EARLEY: THAT IS CERTAINLY UP TO THE COMMISSION TO DECIDE. THAT -- YOU -- YOU DRILLED IT DOWN TO THE ESSENCE REALLY WHY WE ARE HERE TODAY.

DO YOU WANT TO TREAT ONE AREA OF THE CITY DIFFERENTLY FOR PURPOSES OF SOUND MEASUREMENT? TREAT EDGARTOWN DIFFERENTLY THAN

THE REST OF THE CITY. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: LINKING THAT TO ENFORCEMENT AS WELL.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS IN CHARGE OF ENFORCING THIS AT 9 OR 10:00 AT NIGHT. IF THERE ARE VARYING TIMELINES, IT BECOMES COMPLICATED. BUT IF THERE IS ONE SET OF PACKAGED RULES IT IS APPLICABLE EVERYWHERE.

WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE ON AN ENFORCEMENT DIDN'T.

>>MS. EARLEY: MADAM MAYOR, IF I CAN FOLLOW UP ON THAT.

I SEE -- I SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND I AM LOOKING AT IT -- YOU ARE TALKING OF THE PRACTICALITY OF IT, AND I WILL MAKE A COMMENT BASED ON -- FROM THE LEGAL POINT OF VIEW THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS LINE UP TO PRACTICABILITY, SHORTLY.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: REALLY ARE I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT.

>>MS. EARLEY: THAT MY RECOMMENDATION FOR THE COMMISSION HAVE A RATIONAL BASE. IF YOU WERE GOING TO TREAT ONE AIR OF THE CITY THAN THE OTHER OR ONE TYPE OF BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT DIFFERENT FROM SIMILAR BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENTS ELSE. WHERE THE IN CITY, YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE A REASON OF IT AND ARCTICULATE THAT TO A COURT IN

THE EVENT OF A CHALLENGE. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: CLEARLY. I SEE THAT AS A REAL ISSUE HERE.

THIS IS NOT ISOLATED TO EDGARTOWN.

SOUTH BEACH, WE HEAR THE MUSIC EVERY WEEKEND.

WHEN THE WIND COMES OUT OF THE NORTH, IT IS LOUD.

NOT JUST ISOLATED TO THERE BUT A COMMON THEME.

FOR MY THOUGHT PROCESS, IT WOULD BE LOGICAL TO HAVE A CONSISTENT

TEMPLATE ARRIVED EVERYWHERE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: I THINK THAT WOULD BE DESIRABLE. WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS, WE CREATED EDGARTOWN AND MADE IT SPECIAL. WE SET CERTAIN SPECIAL LIMITS THAT WE ARE NOW TRYING TO -- WE ARE TRYING TO -- SO I THINK WHAT -- THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE MAKES THE NOISE ORDINANCE THROUGHOUT THE CITY APPLY, RIGHT. HAS A DIFFERENCE IN THE TIME THAN THE REST OF THE CITY, IS THAT RIGHT?

>>MS. EARLEY: MADAM MAYOR, YES, MA'AM.

A DIFFERENT TIME WITH OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT THAT HAS TO STOP AT 9 P.M. EVERYTHING ELSE IS IN THE SAME TIME FRAME.

SAME SCHEDULE. THERE COULD BE THEORETICALLY ANOTHER KIND OF BUSINESS WILL BE HELD TO THE TATE THAT YOU SEE IN

THE CHART. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE WOULD BE TREATING THEM DIFFERENT LEAP BUT NOT WITH THE NOISE LEVEL IN THE

PROPOSED ORDINANCE, RIGHT? >>MS. EARLEY: THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE, EVERYTHING ACCEPT FOR OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT WILL FOLLOW THE TIME LIMITS THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN.

OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT INSTEAD OF IT IS GOING TO GET CUT OFF AT 9 P.M. BASICALLY. AFTER THAT, THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE ANY OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT.

NOT AREA OF THE CITY HAS OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT PURSUANT TO OUR USE TABLE. RECOGNIZING THE FACT THAT WHEN EDWARDTOWN WAS CREATED IT WAS CREATED FOR SOME LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AND IT IS REASONABLE TO KEEP OF THAT 9 P.M. BASED ON THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD BUT SOMETHING

UTAH PEEK IN WITHIN THE CITY. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MADAM

MAYOR. >>MAYOR HUDSON: YES IF YOU WOULD MOVE THE MOUSE OR SOMEONE. THERE YOU GO COMMISSIONER,

[02:25:04]

NUMBER TWO, LOT SIZES. THE OLDEST SETTLEMENT IN ST.

LUCIE COUNTY. HISTORIC NATURE OF THE STRUCTURES THAT ARE BUILT THERE. WHEN I GO BACK TO -- AND I REMEMBER PARTS AND PIECES OF THE OVERLAY DISTRICT AND THE DISCUSSIONS AND THE CHARETTESES THAT HAPPEN THERE.

AND OTHER ELEMENTS THAT CREATED UNIQUENESS.

BREAD AND -- BED AND BREAKFASTS. AND NOT SAYING WE HAVE TO RELY ON EVERYTHING BUT YOU GO BACK TO THE DISTRICT AND THE CONVERSATIONS OF CREATING THAT DISTRICT, YOU HAVE TO PUT OURSELVES BACK IN THE SHOES TO SEE WHAT THE CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT AND CREATE SOME UNIQUE, FUNKY ENVIRONMENT WITHIN OUR CITY TO RE-- REBRAND, REHASH, RE-CREATE EDGARTOWN.

THERE ARE MANY CONVERSATIONS OF WHAT IF SCENARIOS.

HOW DO WE MAKE IT MORE ATTRACTIVE.

HOW DO WE GET MORE FOLKS TO EDGARTOWN? WHAT ARE THE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES FOR EDGARTOWN.

THERE ARE NEW PHENOMENONS LIKE BREWERIES THAT WERE COMING ALONG AT THAT TIME. SOME I'M EVEN BEFORE THAT -- I THINK I EVEN SAID THAT UP HERE -- CONDO HOTELS.

THAT MORPHED INTO DIFFERENT TYPES OF NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE SMALLER AND UNIQUE. OUTDOOR VENUES LIKE GO TO A BED AND BREAKFAST AND AN ACOUSTIC INSTRUMENT OUTSIDE WELCOMING YOU OR PARTS OF THAT. I REMEMBER THOSE CONVERSATIONS AS MY POINT IN SAYING THAT. WHILE I LIKE STANDARDIZATION, IN ONE IS JUST DIFFERENT, IN MY VIEW, IN MY OPINION AND WHAT I

HEARD. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: YOU MADE A VERY GOOD CASE FOR THAT. I AGREE.

HAVING DONE FROM THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, WE USE THIS ORDINANCE -- CONSTANTLY BEING REVIEWED BY THAT BODY FOR A VARIETY OF DIFFERENCE REASONS AND SPE SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THE EDGARTOWN AREA SO UNIQUE.

THAT OVERLAY IS A CRITICAL COMPONENT.

YOU HAVE A VERY VALID POINT. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: I THINK EVERY POINT IS VALID FROM FOR OR AGAINST CHANGING, GOING TO STANDARDIZATION. I DO THINK WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT WITH THE NOISE -- THE ORDINANCE ITSELF, I SHOULD SAY. THE OTHER ASPECT THAT COMES UP TO MIND AND I DO WANT TO ASK THIS QUESTION MISS EARLEY, DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ELSE. SAYS 50 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. HOW ABOUT FROM A SOURCE?

DO YOU KNOW? >>MS. EARLEY: I CAN TALE YOU OUT 26.40 READS. THE DECIBEL IS MEASURED FROM THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE RECEIVING -- BASICALLY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES AFTER 161 1 P.M., ONE WHERE YOU

HAVE A 60-FOOT DISTANCE IMPOSED. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: ONLY AT PROPERTY LINE AND 50 FEET FROM THAT -- AT A TIME.

>>MS. EARLEY: IF YOU ARE JUST LOOKING SPECIFICALLY AT OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT, YOU ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE MEASURING AT THE PROPERTY LINE BECAUSE CUTS OFF AT 9 P.M.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: GOT IT.

OKAY. >>MS. EARLEY: SO THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE NEAREST RECEIVING PROPERTY.

THANK YOU, MISS HEDGES. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: SO MANY LEVELS OF THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION.

I IMMEDIATELY FALL BACK INTO -- THE UNIQUENESS OF EDGARTOWN AND PROPERTY SIZES, THE LOT SIZES. NOT THAT IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE, BUT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

I HAVE OF A SMALLER PIECE OF PROPERTY CREATING NOISE CLOSER

TO MY NEIGHBORING POLICY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: USING DISTANCE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR. WE KNOW THAT INTUITIVELY.

COMMISSIONER GAINES. ARE YOU THINKING?

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I AM GOING TO JOIN IN.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, I UNDERSTAND -- I WASN'T HERE WHEN EDGARTOWN WAS ZONED AND I UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE -- ALL OF

[02:30:01]

HOWEVER, I THINK IT -- WE -- WE DO HAVE A DUTY THATCH EVEN IF QUESTIONS WERE NOT ANSWERED THEN.

THAT QUESTIONS ARE COMING UP NOW THAT SOME OF THE THINGS WE DID BACK THEN MAY NOT LEGALLY BE CORRECT, WE HAVE A DUTIY -- WE HAVE A DUTY TO LOOK AT THAT AND MAKE SURE THAT NO RESIDENT IN FORT PIERCE IS TREATED DIFFERENT.

I GET COMPLAINTS FROM MY DISTRICT FROM A LOT OF ESTABLISHMENTS OVER -- AWAY FROM EDGARTOWN.

AND MAYBE THAT CAN BE SOMETHING TO NOTICE BECAUSE AS COMMISSIONER JOHNSON SAID, I KNEW THAT SONG VERY WELL.

BECAUSE WHEN IT PASSES HIS HOUSE, I CAN PROBABLY HEAR IT AROUND THE CORNER FROM MY HOUSE. BUT -- I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT TREA TREATING DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CITY DIFFERENTLY. I UNDERSTAND EDGARTOWN.

TRUST ME I READ EVERYTHING I CAN GET MY HANDS ON WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WE ESTABLISHED EDGARTOWN. BUT THIS IS THE -- I AM GOING TO KEEP SAYING THIS -- THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING? BECAUSE ONCE WE PUT SHOVELS IN THE DIRT WITH KINGS LANDING. IF I REMEMBER IT RIGHT, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT A ROOFTOP BAR.

NOT ONLY ARE WE GOING TO THINK ABOUT THIS, BUT NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE ADDITIONAL NOISE WITH CITIZENS, BUT WE WILL HAVE MORE TRA TRAFFIC.

AND I CAN ALMOST HATE TO SAY THIS GUARANTEE THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A BUNCH OF COMPANIES OR -- OR, UM, ORGANIZATIONS WANTING TO HAVE A PARTY OR SOME TYPE OF FUNCTION AT THAT HOTEL.

BASED ON WHAT -- YOU TOOK ME BACK TO COLLEGE.

THAT MAY -- SOME OF THAT STUFF I AM LIKE -- I AM GLAD I STAYED AWAY FROM THAT. BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REFLECTION AND BUILDING AND THIS.

SO -- I DON'T SEE -- I SEE THIS PROBLEM BECOMING BIGGER ONCE THAT BUILDING. AND THEN AND IF WE FAST FORWARD BECAUSE JUST A LITTLE WAYS DOWN. AND WE GET TO FISHERMAN'S WHAT MUCH AND THE OPEN SPACE AND DOWNTOWN FORT PIERCE.

WHAT WAS IT CALLED? >>MAYOR: DOWNTOWN MASTER PLAN.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: DOWNTOWN MASTER PLAN AND TALKING OPEN SPACE FOR CONCERTS AND BRINGING EVERYBODY IN, ALL WE HAVE BEEN PLANNING IS CREATING NOISE. SO WHEN DOES IT STOP.

MY QUESTION IS WHEN DOES IT STOP.

I WANT TO PROJECT IT THE PEOPLE WHO INVESTED IN EDGARTOWN.

I UNDERSTAND THAT. I UNDERSTAND THAT FIGHT.

I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING BUSINESSES TO BUILD FORT PIERCE AND THIS IS PART OF THE GROWTH THAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO AND HAVE A BUSINESS THAT WAS WILLING TO STOP IT NOW AND FOLLOWING DO EVERYTHING WE WANTED TO DO.

AND I HEARD THE NOISE. DOESN'T THE TRAIN GO THROUGH THE TRAIN GO THROUGH EDGARTOWN. I AM PRETTY SURE THAT THE RESIDENTS OF EDGARTOWN HEAR THE SAME MUSIC THAT ME AND COMMISSIONER JOHNSON HEAR TRYING TO GET THROUGH DRIVING THROUGH DOWNTOWN. I AM VERY CONCERNED HERE.

ONE -- I WILL SUM IT UP. I AM VERY CONCERNED OF TREATING THE DIFFERENT RESIDENTS OF FORT PIERCE DIFFERENT BECAUSE, YES, IT IS A HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT BUT WE HAVE HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENTS IN DISTRICT ONE ALSO AND GET COMPLAINTS ALL THE TIME OF THE LOUD MUSIC DISTURBING THOSE ELDERLY

[02:35:03]

COME BE A PART OF US AND NOW YOU COME TO BE A PART OF US.

YOU GET US HERE AND YOU SET UP. OH, BY THE WAY, YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE IN ORDINANCE OREGON WHATEVER.

I AM TORN. I AM REALLY TORN BECAUSE I SEE IF WE ARE ALL RIGHT. ALL FIVE OF US.

SIX OF US UP HERE, RIGHT. AND ALL THESE PRESENTATIONS THAT HOTEL GO UP. THAT FORT PIERCE MASTER PLAN GETS DONE. FISHERMAN WHARF, EVERYTHING, THE WAVE. WHAT IS IT, THE WAVE POOL OVER THERE. MIDWAY.

THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO STAY OVER THERE.

THEY ARE GOING TO TRY TO GET THEM TO COME DOWNTOWN.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT WHAT IS THAT LITTLE -- FREEBIE.

WE ARE TOO IG TO BRING MORE PEOPLE.

MORE PEOPLE TO THE DOWNTOWN AREA AND THIS NOISE ISSUE IS NOT GOING AAWAY IS NOT GOING AWAY. I GUESS WES AS MY GRANDFATHER SAYS BIG GIRL PANTS AND SOMEBODY IS GOING TO BE MAD.

SOMEBODY IS GOING TO BE MAD. I LIKE YOUR IDEA WHEN YOU SAY HALF OF HALFWAY. OKAY, YOU DO THIS AND I DO THAT.

THEN TO ME, THAT IS KICKING THE BUCKET FROM BACK ON THEM.

NOT WHAT I WAS ELECTED FOR. SO COMMISSIONER, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK WE NEED TO GO BACK AND MAKE SURE FROM A LEGAL DIDN'T THAT WHAT WE CREATED IS CONSTITUTIONAL I KNOW I HAVE CASE LAW AND ATTORNEYS CAN READ IT AND PUT THEIR SPIN ON IT.

COME UP WITH THEIR OWN RATIONALE AND WE ALL LOOK AT EACH OTHER LIKE HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT AND THAT IS WHAT WE DO WHAT WE TO PERSONALLY SOMEBODY WILL GET BAD AND A CIRCUIT JUDGE OR SOME JUDGE WILL HAVE A FINAL SAY SO.

A LOT OF RIGHTS THAT WE ARE TRYING TO PROTECT.

AND I THINK IF WE GOING TO DO SOMETHING, MAKE IT UNIFORM THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND HELPS EVERYTHING BE ENFORCE D.

I TONIGHT HAVE POLICE OFFICERS SAYING WHAT TIME IS IT.

I JUST THINK THAT WE NEED TO REALLY MAKE THE DECISION WHATEVER WE ARE GOING TO DO. STAND ON IT AND GO FOR IT.

MY CONCERN IS WE WILL BE BACK HERE TWO OR THREE YEARS BECAUSE GOING TO BE MORE NOISE DOWNTOWN AND OTHER COMPLAINTS COMING FROM THESE SAME RESIDENTS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IN OUR MASTER PLANS WHEN WE HAD EDGARTOWN AND ASKING FOR HOTELS AND EVERYTHING TO COME UP BUT THAT NOISE IS GOING TO FILTER IN TO EDGARTOWN.

WE MIGHT AS WELL GET READY FOR THAT NOW.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THE UNIFORM DECIBEL LEVEL AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE TIME OF OUTDOOR MUSIC. I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE ARE

TALKING ABOUT. >>MS. EARLEY: YES, MA'AM.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: ONE OTHER.

IN THE EDGARTOWN ORDINANCE TALKS OF THE TYPE OF ENTERTAINMENT.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: TYPE OF MUSIC.

>>MS. EARLEY: OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT, MADAM MAYOR.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: TIME AND OUTDOORS.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: NONAMP POLICEFIED IS WHAT IS IN THE

EDGARTOWN NOW. >>MS. EARLEY: MADAM MAYOR, IF I MAY, RIGHT NOW, COMMISSIONER BRODERICK, OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT. SIMPLY PLUGGING IN A AMPLIFIER WILL VIOLATE THAT ORDINANCE EVEN IF IT IS A WHISPER LEVEL OF

[02:40:03]

THE REST OF THE CITY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT WITH THE REST OF THE CITY.

IS THE 9 P.M. GOING TO BE UNIFORM OR JUST PROPOSED FOR

EDGARTOWN. >>MS. EARLEY: RIGHT NOW UNLESS WE FURTHER AMEND OUR NOISE ORDINANCE OR DRAFT SOME OTHER ORDINANCE OR AMEND THE EDGARTOWN ZONING ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW IF WE DO NOTHING ELSE, THAT 9 P.M. WILL ONLY APPLY TO EDGARTOWN FURTHER THOUGHTS? BROTD BROD I THINK I WOULD TAKE ONE STEP BACK HERE TO SUGGEST THAT WHILE I -- WHILE I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER GAINES UNIFORMITY APPROACH.

I THINK THAT WAS MY FIRST COMMENT, THE EDGARTOWN ORDINANCE HAS BEEN IN PLACE EIGHT YEARS, TEN YEARS.

>>MS. EARLEY: APPROXIMATELY 2012 AND 2013.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE.

THE 9:00 IS A CONTROLLING ISSUE THAT IS NOT A HUGE PART OF THE DISCUSSION. ALMOST LIKE AN AFTERTHOUGHT IS THE TIME LIMITATION. I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER GAINES. THE ONE PIECE THAT WE WILL NOT WANT TO TOUCH AND NOBODY IS MAKING THAT AN ISSUE.

AMPLIFIED VERSUS NONAMP POLICEFIED AND THE DECIBEL

LEVELS. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THAT IS WHY I THINK I HEARD THAT.

9 P.M. IS A AGREEABLE MEET IN THE MIDDLE FROM BOTH THE RESIDENTS AND THE BUSINESS OWNERS.

THEY KIND OF AGREE BUT PRESIDENT WHOLE AMPLIFICATION PART AND YOU DEMONSTRATEDED TO GIVE 60 DECIBEL LEVELS.

AMPLIFICATION VERSUS ACOUSTIC AND THE ACOUSTIC MODEL THERE, WE PROBABLY HAD AMPLIFIED MUSIC AND CONCERTS GOING ON THERE.

AND WE AT THIS POINT. I AM SURIOUS INTELLECTUAL.

WE HAD THE LAW ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT CALLED MEASURED AT THAT POINT IN TIME AMPLIFIED MUSIC FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OR TESTIMONY POLICE IF I OCCASION. THE BACKGROUND AND GET THAT FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT IF THAT WAS MEASURED.

IF NOT, THAT IS FINE. AND THE READINGS FROM EQUIPMENT WHEN WE WERE OUT THERE. AND WE HAD AMPLIFIED MUSIC WOULD

HELP ME. >> I CAN GENERATE THAT REPORT AND HAVE IT DISTRIBUTED TO YOU AND ALL OF THE CITY COMMISSION.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: ALL OF THOSE TIMES WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND AMPLIFIED AND NOT ACOUSTIC.

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: UNDERSTOOD. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: LEVEL

60. >>MAYOR HUDSON: COMMISSIONER J.

JOHNSON. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN ARTICULATE IT OR MAKE HEADWAY.

I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, I AM GOING TO ASK MYSELF AND I AM GOING TO ASK THE CITY RESIDENTS THAT HAVE TALKED TO ME ABOUT THIS AND BUSINESS OWNERS. WHAT THE POINT OF THE EDGARTOWN DISTRICT AT THE END OF THE DAY. WHY DID WE CHANGE IT? WHAT WERE WE LOOKING FOR? MISS EARLEY, DOES THE ORDINANCE DESCRIBE ENTERTAINMENT OR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT?

>>MS. EARLEY: IT DOES NOT AND THAT FROM PHRASE IS IN OUR USE TABLE THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS DEFINED ELSEWHERE IN OUR CODE OF ORDINANCES.

[02:45:01]

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: LIVE ENTERTAINMENT IS USED?

>>MS. EARLEY: THE WORDS "INDOOR ENTERTAINMENT" AND "OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT" APPLIES TO ALL OTHER USE TABLE IN THE CITY.

HE HAD HE HAD HAS ITS OWN USE TABLE AND NOT DEFINED ANYWHERE.

SO BECAUSE THE GOAL -- AS IT PERTAINS TO NOISE IN THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE IS TO PROTECT WHAT IS POTENTIALLY A LEGAL ISSUE. WE DIDN'T GO INTO -- I DIDN'T WANT TO. I WANT ODD TO BE AS SURGICAL AS POSSIBLE AND ALLOW THE COMMISSION TO WEIGH IN OTHER THAN SORT OF PULLING HAVE STRINGS ON OUR OTHER CODE OF ORDINANCES. I WANTED TO GET DIRECTION FROM THE COMMISSION AS FAR AS THIS IS CONCERNED A, DO WE WANT TO CHANGE THINGS. B -- NOT "WE" BUT THE COMMISSION, IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING, WILL IT BE

CONSISTENT OR DIFFERENT. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MAKES SENSE. A LOT OF THINGS COME TO MIND WHEN ANSWERING THAT. AND WITHOUT BEING PIECE BY PIECE AND SECTION BY SECTION WHICH THE PARKS BEING CHALLENGED.

AND NONCONSISTENTLY. WE ARE LOOKING AT THE LIVE ENTERTAINMENT THAT CAUSED THE MOST RIFT AMONGST THE COMMUNITY.

IT IS THE TIME FACTOR. THE WORD ACOUSTIC.

ACOUSTIC ONLY. I DON'T THINK IT IS DEFINED EITHER. I DON'T THINK THAT ONE IS, LIVE ENTERTAINMENT IS DEFINED. IS "ACOUSTIC" DESIGNED.

>>MS. EARLEY: DEFINED IN THE ORDINANCE THE WAY IT IS NOW.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

>>MS. EARLEY: I THINK IT MIGHT BE THE REVERSE.

MIGHT BE THE AGENCIES AMPLIFIED" IS DEFINED.

MISS HEDGES WILL SCROLL UP. I THINK IT WAS ACOUSTIC THAT WAS NOT DEFINED BECAUSE I THINK I GOT A QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: ACOUSTIC OR AMPLIFIED IF I.

>>MS. EARLEY: THE WORD "ACOUSTIC" IN THESE THREE SPOTS AND THE WORD "AMPLIFIED" NOT SPECIFICALLY REFERENCED.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THAT IS WHAT I AM LOOKING AT AND WHERE IT STARTED AT LEAST IN MY CONVERSATIONS THE PART OF IT.

NO SPECIFIC DEFINITION IN THIS CODE.

GUILT BACK AND IF WE ARE GOING TO MAKE CHANGES.

WITH INPUT FROM THE RESIDENTS HERE AND PART OF THIS FOR A LONG TIME, THOSE WHO ESTABLISHED A BUSINESS UNIT THERE OR BEEN A PART OF IT. PLANNING STAFF THAT ARE OBVIOUSLY INTEGRAL IN THIS CONVERSATION ARE GOING TO HAVE INPUT FROM THIS. THE WAY I READ THE LIVE ENTERTAINMENT SESSION EVERY TIME I READ IT WHILE THE WORDS ALSO COME UP, MEANS ACOUSTIC AND DID NOT PLUG ANYTHING AND HAVE A ELECTRIC DEVICE. LATER IN THE PARAGRAM, SEMI COLON, NO MUSIC OF ANY KIND WILL BE AUDIBLE OUTSIDE.

WE HAVE TO DEFINE IT BY THE LAW. BY THE LAW.

SOMEWHERE WE ARE GOING TO DEFINE IT IN OUR CODE SO WE CAN ARTICULATE THESE WORDS PROPERLY. OBVIOUSLY WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MUSIC. 90% CERTAIN THAT THE DRAFTERS OF THIS ORDINANCE, INCLUDING THOSE WHO MADE THE VOTE TO APPROVE IT WAS TALKING ABOUT MUSIC. SAYS IT IN THE PARAGRAPHS OF WHICH IT IS REFERENCES, SEMICOLON, NO MUSIC OF ANY KIND, DOT, DOT, DOT, LET'S GET THROUGH THAT PART AND PIECE.

WHY DO WE HAVE THE EDGARTOWN OVERLAY.

WHAT CONDITIONS OF EDGARTOWN OVERLAY ARE WE KEEPING -- DOES IT MAKES SENSE WITHIN OUR CODE TO KEEP IT? DOES IT MAKE SENSE? AT THE END OF THE DAY, DOES IT MAKE SENSE? MAKE CHANGES TO MAKE IT STANDARDIZED TO THE CITY CODE AND ORDINANCES.

DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE A OVERLAY DISTRICT? MISS EARLEY AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES.

[02:50:04]

I AM SURE SOME PROPERTY OWNERS CHANGED -- MAYBE THEY CHANGED THEIR ZONING. I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE.

BUT WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS. I AM GOING BACK TO THE CONVERSATIONS. THE OTHER PART OF IT IS -- WHERE WAS I GOING WITH THIS. IT HAS TO WITH THE NOISE ORDINANCE OR THE CHANGES -- THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

THE CHANGES THAT THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE.

PERMITTED VERSUS CONDITIONAL USES.

IF WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THE MIXED USE OPPORTUNITY IN EDGARTOWN. WE KEEP IT AND MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS OR -- IS LIVE ENTERTAINMENT WHENEVER WE GET TO DEFINING THAT. MISS EARLEY, THAT DEFINED AS PERMITTED USES OR CONDITIONAL AND WE BROUGHT UP A GOOD EXAMPLE WHERE WE WORKED WITH APPLICANTS OR INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE SOME VENUE AT THEIR PIECE OF PROPERTY.

AND TO ME, THAT NEEDS TO BE A CONDITIONAL USE BECAUSE WE NEED TO SEE VERY SPECIFIC DATA AND DESIGN CRITERIA FOR WHAT THE

IMPACT OF NOISE IS GOING TO BE. >>MS. EARLEY: I AM GOING TO TAKE YOUR QUESTION IS SEVERAL LAYERS. FIRST OF ALL, I APOLOGIZE.

I MAY HAVE MISREMEMBERED THAT "AMPLIFY" WAS DEFINED.

I WILL SAY THAT MUCH. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON:

THAT'S OKAY. >>MS. EARLEY: LIVE ENTERTAINMENT, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE.

YOU DON'T HAVE A STATUTORY, YOU GO BY THE ORDINARY USE OF THE WORD WHICH IS PROBABLY -- I WOULD DEFINE AS PROBABLY A PERSON THAT IS PRODUCING SOUND. OR A PERSON MANIPULATING DEEJAY EQUIPMENT OR WHATEVER. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT THE USE TABLE, THE WAY IT IS CURRENTLY DRAFTED WOULD STATE THAT SUCH LIVE ENTERTAINMENT MUST BE ABUSE PARTICULAR ONLY.

IF YOU HAVE LIVE ENTERTAINMENT. IF YOU HAVE A BAND THAT IS PLAYING, ACCORDING TO THIS ORDINANCE, THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN NOW YOU ARE LOOKING AT SUBSECTION I, USE STANDARDS.

IF YOU WERE LOOKING AT A BREW P PUB. YOU LOOK AT -- IT IS ON PAGE 12.

THE ORIGINAL CHART. SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENT FIRST CERTAIN TYPES OF ESTABLISHMENTS ARE PERMITTED IN THE EDGARTOWN ZONING DISTRICT.

CERTAIN TYPES OF ESTABLISHMENTS ARE CONDITIONAL USES MEANING YOU CAN'T EVEN OPERATE THAT BUSINESS WITHOUT A CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE CERTAIN ESTABLISHMENTS THAT ARE PERMITTED AS A MATTER OF RIGHT. THEY ARE BREW PUBS, WINE BARS AND NEIGHBORHOOD BISTROS. ALL THREE OF THOSE ARE PERMITTED. AND THIS FIRST CHART THAT WE SEE ON THE SCREEN HERE IS FOR BREW PU PUBS. IF YOU LOOK AT LIVE ENTERTAINMENT SAYS OUTSIDE ACOUSTIC ONLY NO LATER THAN 9:30 P.M. I INTERPRET THAT, THE MINUTE YOU PLUG IN, YOU AMPLIFIER, YOU VIOLATED THE ORDINANCE.

THE TABLE SLIGHTLY TREATS WINE BARS AND NEIGHBORHOOD BISTROS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN BREW PUBS AND IT IS REALLY -- IT DOESN'T -- THERE IS REALLY NO EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THE TABLE IS DIFFERENT AS TO THOSE TWO OTHER BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENTS.

SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THE WAY THAT THE TABLE OF USES ARE DRAFTED RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE NOT LOOKING AT THE PARTICULAR TYPE OF USE AS ENTERTAINMENT AND BAKING OR ARTISAN WORK OR WHATEVER, YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE TYPE OF BUSINESS.

AND THE ONLY OTHER TYPE OF BUSINESS THAT IS ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY HAVE LIVE ENTERTAINMENT PURSUANT TO OUR USE TABLE ARE BREW PUBS, NEIGHBORHOOD BEES ASTROS AND W BISTROS AND WINE BARS. ARE YOU ASKING LIMIT WITH THOSE TYPES OF ESTABLISHMENTS MAKING THEM IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM RETROACTIVEARE TYPES OF ESTABLISHMENTS MAKING THEM IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM RETROACTIVE AND

[02:55:03]

RIGHT NOW ONLY ALLOWED FROM THE THREE TYPES OF ESTABLISHMENTS.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: SO I GUESS, I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT DEEP INTO IT. HOWEVER, THANK YOU FOR THE ANSWER AND YOU SPUR ADDITIONAL THOUGHT, SO I GUESS MY -- MY DESIRE IN THE CONVERSATION OF THE EVALUATIONS OF REWRITING AND MAKING CHANGES TO THIS OVERLAY WOULD BE TO PROPOSE THAT THAT LIVE ENTERTAINMENT BECOMES CONDITIONAL.

NO MATTER WHERE -- WHAT KIND OF ESTABLISHMENT BECAUSE IT ALLOWS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE IN-DEPTH REVIEW ANALIZATION OF THE SOUND PARAMETER THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED TODAY.

WE ARE WORKING WITH THOSE THAT HAVE THAT APPLICATION AND THEY ARE COMING THROUGH AND SAY THIS IS WHAT I PRO PROPOSED AND THIS IS THE KIND OFPROPOSED AND THIS IS THE KIND OFROPOSED AND THIS THE KIND OF BUSINESS I HAVE GOT AND HAVE THIS.

>>MS. EARLEY: CAN I CLARIFY. I AM SORRY, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, FOR CUTTING YOU OFF. MY BRAIN WORKS FASTER THAN MY MOUTH. OR MAYBE THE OPPOSITE.

BASICALLY, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

IF YOU DO IT THAT WAY IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING -- IF YOU LIKE INDOOR OR OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT. I WILL USE THAT PHRASE BECAUSE CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE CITY, RIGHT.

YOU WANT TO MAKE INDOOR AND OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT A CONDITIONAL USE WITHIN THE EDGARTOWN ZONING SETTLEMENT DISTRICT. IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT, THE WAY YOU ARE DESCRIBING IT AND HEARING IT, THAT WILL APPLY NO MATTER WHAT TYPE OF BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT YOU HAVE AND YOU ARE OPENING IT UP TO OTHER TYPES OF BUSINESSES THAN WE ALLOW RIGHT NOW WHICH IS THOSE THREE TYPES IN THE CHART I DISCUSSED.

THE THREE RESTAURANT BAR TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENTS.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: I CAN SEE THAT POSSIBLY HAPPEN.

AN ART VENUE MAYBE THEY WOULD WANT TO HAVE.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN LIST THAT SPECIFICALLY BUT GIVING AN EXAMPLE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL BE -- WOULD HAVE TO FULLY EVALUATE -- IF YOU HAVE THESE ESTABLISHMENTS, THEN YOU CAN APPLY OREGON DO WE SAY YOU CAN

APPLY FOR A CONDITIONAL USE? >>MS. EARLEY: EITHER WAY, IT CAN'T WORK RETROACTIVELY. THAT IS THE ONE THING I CAN SAY

FOR SURE. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MAKES SENSE. WE ARE DOING AN EVALUATION AND LOOKING AT THE ORDINANCE, AT A REWRITE.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: MADAM MAYOR.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YES, SIR. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I AM OVER HERE THINKING AND READING EVERYTHING AGAIN AND WE ARE TALKING OF ACOUSTIC MUSIC AND AMPLIFIED MUSIC.

MADAM ATTORNEY'S DEFINITION IS ONCE YOU PLUG IN A MIC, WE ARE IN PREACH OF THE STATUTE -- OF THE ORDINANCE, RIGHT.

THIS IS MY QUESTION. AND THIS IS TO DEPUTY CHIEF AND MR. MIMMS. WHO -- WHAT -- WHAT SITUATION MY ESTEEMED COLLEAGUE BRING THE DRUM LINE FROM FLORIDA A&M TO PARTICIPATE OUTSIDE EDGARTOWN. I GUARANTEE THEY DON'T NEED A MICROPHONE AND EVERYBODY FROM THAT AREA WILL PROBABLY HEAR THAT BAND. ACOUSTIC ONLY.

AT THAT THE POINT, WHERE DOES THE NOISE ORDINANCE KICK IN.

IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO COMPLAIN AT THAT POINT, WHAT CHART DO WE

GO TO? >>MS. EARLEY: AT THAT THE PART, THE NOISE ORDINANCE KICKS IN BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT HAVING THE ACOUSTIC DISTINCTION, AND THE NOISE ORDINANCE DOES NOT SAY WE DON'T APPLY TO EDGARTOWN. IT SAYS CITYWIDE.

SO IF YOU ARE HAVING ACOUSTIC SOUND, THAT IS WHERE THE NOISE ORDINANCE WILL KICK IN RIGHT NOW TODAY.

AND YOU WOULD BE LIMITED TO THAT 60 DBA OR 60 DBC.

AS YOU HEARD FROM THE SOUND SAMPLES, 60 DBC SOUNDS -- CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG -- HUMAN EAR SOUNDS A LOT LOWER THAN THE 60 DBA.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: RIGHT. THAT IS THE POINT I AM GOING.

IF WE HAVE AN ACOUSTIC BAND OVER THE 60 DBA, THE NOISE ORDINANCE KICKS IN. BUT A BUSINESS WHO AMPLIFIES A

[03:00:04]

: PUT THE MIC ON AND DOESN'T REACH THE 60 DOESN'T HIT THE 60 AND SOMEONE HEARS THE MICROPHONE AND

THEY ARE IN VIOLATION? >>MS. EARLEY: SOMEONE DOESN'T HAVE TO HEAR IT THE WAY IT IS WRI

WRITTEN. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THAT IS

WHAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. >>MS. EARLEY: 24 HOURS DURING

THE -- >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THAT IS

THE CONCERN I HAVE. >>NICHOLAS MIMMS: YOU ASKED ME AND DEPUTY CHIEF A QUESTION. JUST TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, SIR, I BELIEVE WE HAVE NOISE ORDINANCE VIOLATIONS DAILY, ROUTINELY, OKAY. BASED ON WHAT I HEARD TODAY -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH FROM THE EXPERT.

AT LONGWOOD STADIUM, EVERY TIME THEY HAVE A FOOTBALL GAME, I HEAR IT IN MY HOUSE. I COULD CALL THE POLICE AND PUT IN A COMPLAINT, BUT THE VIOLATION OF THE NOISE ORDINANCE IS BASED ON INDIVIDUAL PERCEPTION AND DRIVEN BY COMPLAINTS. SOME NOISES ARE EXPECTED AND SOME HAVE NOT. UP TO THE ACTUAL COME PLAY ANT OF WHAT TYPE OF PAIN THEY ARE EXPERIENCING.

SO JUST TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, SIR, WE HAVE NOISARD ORDINANCE

VIOLATION EVERY DAY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: DEPENDS ON -- IF YOU CALL THE POLICE IT HAS TO BE MEASURED RIGHT THEN.

NOT WHEN YOU CALLED. SO IT IS A VERY -- IT IS A STRUGGLE. IT IS A STRUGGLE.

YOUR LIFE IS NOT EASY. MAYBE IT IS.

MAYBE IT IS. [LAUGHTER] SO NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, WE ARE GOING TO BE -- WE ARE GOING TO BE TRYING TO APPROXIMATE A FAIR QUALITY F OF LIFE SO -- I AM THINKING BACK. HE HAD GARTOWN I WAS HERE.

CELEBRATED TEN YEARS. WAS IT -- I KNOW, YOU GAVE ME A CERTI CERTIFICATE.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: BEFORE YOU GOT ELECTED.

AND WASN'TED THE HOUSES TO STAY AND LIVE IN THEM AND OPERATE BUSINESSES IN THEM TO HAVE AND THERE WERE ALL TYPES OF BUSINESSES ENVISIONED AND ALL TYPES OF CREATIVE WAYS OF PARKING AND TALKING ABOUT THE ALLEYS AND TALKING ABOUT THE LOT

SIZES AND. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHN

JOHNSON: PEDICABS. >>MAYOR HUDSON: RIGHT, SO THAT -- THAT BY WAY OF SAYING WE -- AND IT -- IT REALLY DID -- HAVE FROM THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND FROM MY OBSERVATION, IT DID CHANGE WHAT WE DID WITH EDGARTOWN CHANGED THE QUART OF LIFE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IT PROVED THAT BECAUSE THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WAS DETERIORATING AND FULL OF IFFY HE ACTIVITIES AND THIS OVERTIME CLEANED UP THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AND PEOPLE REHABBED THEIR HOMES. BUSINESSES WENT INTO THEIR HOMES. PEOPLE SELL REAL ESTATE THERE.

THEY HAVE ART STUDIOS THERE. THERE IS A -- NOT A YOGA STUDIO BUT A STUDIO WHERE YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF SALT ESSENCE.

I FORGOT WHAT YOU CALL -- SPA TYPE THING.

A BACK AREA THAT IS OPEN THAT SOMETIMES WILL HAVE MUSIC OUT THERE. I DON'T KNOW.

SO IT WAS KIND OF TO BE A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD REIMAGINED AS A FUNKY NEIGHBORHOOD IN FFOR PIERCE.

DOES THAT HELP YOU AT ALL? NO, IT DOESN'T.

STILL -- WE STILL HAVE THE PROBLEM.

[LAUGHTER] SO NOW WE HAVE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THE PROBLEM WE HAVE BEEN FACED WITH AND ISSUES THAT ARE -- MISS EARLEY OUR ATTORNEY HAS BROUGHT TO US THAT WE PROBABLY NEED TO BE ADDRESS, THE UNIFORMITY OF THE NOISE LEVEL IS COMPELLING, BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN CONSTITUTIONALLY ARGUED AND AS A FREE SPEECH ISSUE, RIGHT. A SPEECH ISSUE EVEN THOUGH TO US IT IS NOISE AND SPEECH. SO I THINK WE HAVE TO DO THE

[03:05:03]

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: MADAM MAYOR, IF I AM READING THE TEA LEAVES HERE, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE 9:00 TIME FRAME IS ALMOST LIKE A SETTLED ISSUE. THAT IS NOT A REALLY COMPELLING MATTER. THAT THE NOISE LEVEL AT THE 60 DECIBEL OR DEFINED IN MULTIPLE DIFFERENCE WAYS BUT 60 IS THE CONTROLLING NUMBER. SO IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THE ONLY QUESTION HERE IS AMPLIFIED VERSUS NONAMPLIFIED AND THAT THE

AMPLIFICATION ISN'T LEGAL. >>MAYOR HUDSON: RIGHT BECAUSE

YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE DECIBEL. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: INSTEAD OF TAKE TO THE SHREDDER AND ONE ISSUE DICTATED BY THE COURT. IS THAT A FAIR ANALYSIS?

>>MS. EARLEY: I WANT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT CHARACTERIZING HOW A COURT WOULD VIEW PROSPECTIVE LY. I LOOKED AT THE CASE LAW THAT ADDRESSED CERTAIN KINDS OF ORDINANCES AND I THINK IT IS CONCERNING FROM AT ANALYSIS OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT CLAIM THE

LEVEL LEVEL OF SCRUTINY. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: APPEARS THAT WE LEAVE IT EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS NOW OR ELIMINATE THE AMPLIFICATION I SHALL FROM ENTIRETY AND LET THE LITIGATION FLY POLAR OPPOSITES AND ENGAGED BY ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

NO DOUBT DO WE SUPPORT OR LET A JUDGE DECIDE.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: TO AMPLIFY OR NOT.

THAT IS WHAT I HEAR. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: CUT IT DOWN TO THAT. IS THE CITY COMMISSION WANT TO MAKE THAT DECISION OR -- I GUESS IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DO SO. IT WILL BE COURT TESTED AT SOME PO POINT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I THINK WE ADDRESS EDGARTOWN TODAY AND DEAL WITH THE NOISE ORDINANCE AND THE CLEANUP THAT YOU ARE TALKING AB ABOUT YOU SAY 06 A RESTRICT?

>> VARIOUS RESTRICTED ACCORDING TO THE OTHER NOISE ORDINANCES.

60 IS TIGHT. 60 DBC.

DBA NOT SO MUCH. BUT GO -- THE 60 LET'S YOU TO REGULATE THE LOW FREQUENCY RATHER THAN JUST THE DBA.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: BUT NOT THE COMPLAINT ISSUE AGAIN, WHY TOUCH IT. LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS AT COMMERCIALLY LIABLE LEVEL AND TIMES THE CHANGE, JUST LEAVE IT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: LEAVE IT FOR NOW.

WE MIGHT WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.

WE ARE TALKING OF EDGARTOWN TODAY.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, I GUESS THAT IS WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION EARLIER TRY TO GET THE UNDERSTANDING TO COMMISSIONER JOHNSON'S DIDN'T TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE 6060 DB SOUND FEEL'S LIKE THAT AREA AND VENTURE OF DIRECTIONAL SPEAKER, WHATEVER DIRECTION IT IS GOING. 60 FACING ONE WAY IS DIFFERENT THAN ANOTHER DAY. TIME OF YEAR AND ALL OF THAT AND ACURD TO PUT WHAT THE CONSULTANT SPOKEN THE BUSINESS AND THE RESIDENT TO SEE CAN HELP ALSO. WE WILL DO OUR PART AND THE ABOUT IS AND THE RESIDENT. HOW DO WE PLAY NICELY TO WORK TOGETHER FOR MUTUAL BENEFIT. PEOPLE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD ENJOY THE ABILITY TO WALK ACROSS THE STREET AND DOWN THE BLOCK AND ENJOY BEVERAGES AND REFRESHMENTS AND WALK BACK SAFELY AND ENJOY SOME ENTERTAINMENT OF SOME SORT.

THAT IS WHERE MY CURIOSITY WAS GOING WITH THE COMMISSION SO I

CAN GET A BETTER SENSE. >> I FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD LEAVE

[03:10:02]

THE 60 ALONE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: LEAVE IT ALONE.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: UNIQUELY POSITIONED AND I CAN'T SAY -- SPEAKER'S POINT AND PART OF MY RESEARCH TOO AND I JUST KNOW THAT COMMISSIONER GAINES BROUGHT IN A DIFFERENT POINT.

BRINGING SOUND FROM ANOTHER AREA ELEVATED AND A TOP STRUCTURE.

MOVING OUTS OF THERE MOVING SOME PLACE EAST OR WEST OR WHATEVER.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SOUND IS ACCEPTABLE LIKE MR. MIMMS SAYS.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: EXACTLY.

I THINK WE HAD SOME GREAT DISCUSSION AND I THINK -- I THINK YOU COINED IT. IT COMES DOWN TO LOOKING AT THAT

PART OF AMPLIFICATION OR NOT. >>NICHOLAS MIMMS: REAL QUICK, TO FOLLOW-UP. AS COMMISSIONER JOHNSON SAID TO AMPLIFY. THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO AS A CITY -- AS A CITY COMMISSION TO SAY THAT AMPLIFICATION CAN OCCUR IF WE GO THAT WAY OR NOT.

I AM SAYING ONLY OCCUR FOR CERTAIN HOUSE OF THE DAY.

SAY 7 OR 9 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS UNDERS BE MUSIC THAT WILL NOT GO OVER 60 AND FRIDAY THROUGH SATURDAY. FRIDAY THROUGH SUNDAY.

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN TRY A COMPROMISE TO GET EVERYBODY SO THEY KNOW THEY HAVE OPPORTUNITIES -- THE BUSINESSES HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE MONEY DURING THESE HOURS.

EVEN IF THE SPA WANTS TO HAVE PANDORA OR WHATEVER AND PLAY MUSIC. IT IS OUTSIDE BECAUSE IT IS OUTSIDE FROM 7 TO 9. AND EVERYBODY KNOWS AND CAN ADJUST THEIR SCHEDULE WHERE, OKAY, YOU MIGHT HIT NOSE FROM 7 TO 9 P.M. BUT IT STILL CAN'T GO OVER 60.

WE ALL AGREE WITH THAT. ADJUST OUR LIVES TO DEAL WITH A CERTAIN TIME FRAME. 7 TO 9 AND EVERYTHING DOES THEIR THING AND EVERYBODY WILL BE COMFORTABLE AND QUIET AND I KNOW WHAT IS COMING ONCE WE PUT THOSE ELEMENTS ON AND I KNOW WHAT IS COMING. THE GOAL COMMISSIONER GAINES IS THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE ON THE SCREEN IS TO REMOVE THAT DISTINCTION AND SET A SPECIFIC NO MATTER THE SOUND.

A RADIO PLAYING OR BAND PLAYING. WHETHER THE BAND IS PLAYING WITH AMPLIFICATION OR WITHOUT AMPLIFICATION.

SO THAT -- >>MAYOR HUDSON: IS WHAT WE ARE

TRYING TO ACHIEVE. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: IF WE CAN -- IF LEGALLY WE CAN. IF LEGALLY WE CAN.

SET SOME SHOWERS AND SEE HOW IT WORKS.

BECAUSE I AS COMMISSIONER BRODERICK SAID AND I WILL GO ON RECORD HOWEVER WAY WE VOTE PER ENTRENCHED.

IF THEY DON'T LIKE THE WAY WE VOTE.

I WOULD RATHER US VOTE ON SOMETHING AND ACT LIKE WE ARE DOING WHAT WE ARE ELECTED TO DO THAN TO SIT UP HERE AND WORRY ABOUT WHAT IS COMING DOWN FROM A COURT.

BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT WE ARE ELECTED TO DO.

I AM SITTING HERE LISTENING TO THE EXPERT AND HE SAYS WE CAN DO IT, THIS HE CAN DO IT OR WE CAN HALFWAY.

IF WE CAN COME UP WITH SOME HOURS OF OPERATION FOR THIS AMPLIFIED MUSIC BECAUSE MOST BANDS DON'T PLAY THREE HOURS, FOUR HOURS ANYMORE. THOSE DAYS ARE OVER WITH.

YOU GO AT 7:00 AND THEY HAVE GOT TO BE OUT THERE AT 9:00.

STILL GETTING THE BUSINESS IN. SOME OF THOSE BUSINESSES THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MADAM MAYOR AND LISTEN TO THE SPA MUSIC WHILE THE HUSBAND IS DOING WHATEVER AND ALL THREE SIDES.

[03:15:06]

COME TO A RATIONALE. ONE THING I LEARNED IN LAW, WHEN YOU LEAVE THE MEDIATION, NO ONE SHOULD BE THRILLED OR HAPPY OR HIGH-FIVING. SO YOU GET SOMETHING TO GIVE UP SOMETHING -- YOU HAVE PEACE OF MIND 24 HOURS A DAY INSTEAD OF TWO HOURS AND GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR BUSINESSES OVER THERE TO CAPITALIZE ON THOSE TWO HOURS AND WE GO FROM THERE DALE AND THE REST OF THE PEOPLE COME WITH THE HIGH-RISES WHAT THEY ARE COMING INTO. ROOFTOP PARTIES AT 9:00, TAKE IT INSIDE OR WHATEVER. THAT IS ALL.

MAYBE TWO HOURS IS TOO LONG OR TOO SHORT.

LET'S COME UP WITH SOMETHING. THE RATIONALE, MADAM ATTORNEY, TRYING TO A REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD OUT OF THE 24 HOURS OF THE DAY, I KNOW THESE TWO HOURS. THEY CAN PLAY MUSIC AND THE CITY HAS AN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS EVEN IF THEY AMPLIFY THAT MUSIC CAN'T GET OVER 60. IF IT DOES GO OVER 60, A COMPLAINT AND WE SHUT IT DOWN AND OVER 60.

THEY STILL HAVE THE POWER TO SAY JUST BECAUSE WE ARE AMPLIFYING WE DO 80, 90. SOME SIMPLE WAY.

SOMEBODY WILL BE MAD. SOMEBODY WILL BE HAPPY.

BUT FOR THE 20 -- WHAT IS IT 24 HOURS -- 22 HOURS, RESIDENTS ARE

HAPPY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: NOBODY WILL KNOW

THE RULES. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THAT'S

WHAT I AM SAYING. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE BEAT THIS TOPIC TO DEATH UNLESS COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, YOU WANT

TO HAVE ANY LAST DAY. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: WE ARE GOING TO VOTE ON IT AND COME UP WITH MORE DISCUSSION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: IT WILL EVOLVE. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THE OTHER QUESTION FOR MISS EARLEY AND TO CLARIFY IN THE PUBLIC'S RECORD, THE ENTERTAINMENT OUTDOOR IN THIS PROPOSAL, SECTION -- OR CHAPTER 26 COVERS, LIKE, ON A SUNDAY.

I THINK A SUNDAY IN CHAPTER 26 AND YOU REFERENCED IT EARLIER AND CLEAN IT UP. BUT NO NOISE -- SPECIFIC NO NOISE FROM 7 A.M. TO 11 -- 1 P.M. IF I REMEMBER THIS CORRECTLY. SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>>MS. EARLEY: THERE I GO AGAIN. CUTTING YOU OFF.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THAT'S OKAY.

>>MS. EARLEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE NOISE ORDINANCE ITSELF, AN INTENT IN 2014 TO BUILD IN QUIET HOURS FOR SUNDAY MORNING.

YOU SEE SUNDAY 7 A.M. TO 1 P.M. YOU ARE LOOKING -- YOU ARE MOVING OUT OF THAT DECIBEL LIMIT TO PRO HIBT EXHIBITING UNREASONABLY LOUD UNUSUAL NOISE SUCH NOISE PRODUCED OR THE VIBRATION MADE WILL BE OBVIOUS OR CAUSE DISCOMFORT AND ANNOYANCE TO A REASONABLY PRUDENT PERSON AT A DISTANCE GREATER THAN 50 FEET. THAT APPLIES SUNDAY MORNING CITYWIDE AND MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THE 60 DBA OR 60 DBC.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: NOISE LEVEL, NO NOISE.

>>MS. EARLEY: WITH THAT NOISE SECTION.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: EDGARTOWN OVERLAY IN THE DRAFT, THAT IS ALSO APPLIES THE WAY YOU HAVE IT WRITTEN.

>>MS. EARLEY: YES, SIR. THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN SAYS SECTION 26.40 THAT IS ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: ON THE SHIRT TAILS OF COMMISSIONER GAINES BECAUSE HE WAS TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HOURS.

IF WE CREATE AN ADDITIONAL LAYER IN OUR NEXT DISCUSSION, THEN WE CREATE IT. I THINK MAKING SURE THAT THE -- THAT THE ELEMENTS ARE DEFINED. THERE WAS -- THE SECTIONS REFERENCE EACH OTHER GOING TO BE MORE DISCUSSION I AM SURE AND UNHAPPY FOLKS LIKE YOU SAID. SO HERE WE ARE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I THINK WE SHOULD MOVE ON.

WHAT DO YOU THINK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

YOU HAVE ANYTHING SHORT LAST THING TO SAY?

[03:20:05]

>> NOT THAT WOULDN'T OPEN UP A WHOLE LOT MORE DISCUSSION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY. ACCEPTED ME AN E-MAIL.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: HIT ME WITH 60 DECIBEL ON THE

WAY OUT THE DOOR. >>MS. EARLEY: 60 DBC.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: OR A.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I WANT TO -- JUST ONE LAST TIME

GOING OUT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE NEED TO HAVE A RECESS AFTER THIS TO TAKE THE EQUI

EQUIPMENT. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON:

WE HAVE GONE BY A. >> C IS YOUR CONTROLLING ONE.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: C THEN.

♪ ♪ ♪ EXPECT HELP YOURSELF] ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ >>> YOU WANT C.

I WILL KEEP ON GOING. 63.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: OKAY, THANK YOU.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ALL RIGHTY. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON:

SOUNDS GOOD. >>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING AND GIVING US A LESSON IN -- WHAT IS IT, PHYSICS -- IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID.

MOST PHYSICS I HAD EVER, I THINK.

>> IN 63 YEARS. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE APPRECIATE IT. TAKE A QUICK BREAK TO BREAK DOWN THIS. THANK YOU ALL FOR OTHER ITEMS. I APOLOGIZE THIS IS GOING SO LATE BUT WE NEEDED TO DO IT.

SO --

[c. Discussion and presentation with the South Florida Water Management District regarding a proposed year-round irrigation ordinance. The District is requesting local governments to review their existing irrigation ordinance and codes for consistence with the District's Year-Round Landscaping Irrigation Conservation Measures Rule, Chapter 40E-24, Florida Administrative Code.]

>> TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY AND HERE IS WHAT WE ARE DOING.

>> GOOD MORNING, I AM THE WATER CONSERVATION FOR THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT.

AND WE ARE HERE TO TALK OF THE ONGOING INITIATIVE TO HAVE ALL LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WITHIN OUR DISTRICT TO ADOPT AN ORDINANCE THAT COMPORTS TO CHAPTER 44 WHICH IS ALSO KNOWN AS THE YEAR-ROUND RULE. THE YEAR-ROUND RULE WAS IMPLEMENTED TO SAFEGUARD OUR REGIONAL WATER RESOURCES AND TARGETS THE LARGEST AREA OF URBAN WATER USE WHICH IS IRRIGATION. MORE THAN HALF OF ALL WATER SUPPLIES IS USED FOR IRRIGATION IN SOUTH FLORIDA AND THE RULE ALLOWS FOR IRRIGATION THAT WILL SUSTAIN HEALTHY LAWNS UNDER NORMAL RAINFALL YEARS. THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT IS NOT THE ONLY DISTRICT IN FLORIDA THAT HAVE THIS KIND OF RULE IN PLACE. ST. JOHN'S, RIVERS AND WATER MANAGE MENT DISTRICT ALSO HAVE SIMILAR RULES IN PLACE.

WE WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY OF THE YEAR ROUND RULE AND THE RULE WAS ADOPTED BY THE SOUTH FLORIDA MANAGEMENT DISTRICT IN 2010. AND FOLLOWING THE ADOPTION OF PERMANENT WATERING RESTRICTIONS IN LEE, COLLIER AND CHARLOTTE COUNTY. AND THE CURRENT VERSION WAS ADOPTED IN 2014 TO REFLECT A REFERENCE TO THE AMENDED DISTRICT PERMITTING RULES BUT NO CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE ORIGINAL RULE FROM 2010. A NUTSHELL, THE RULE RESTRICTS IRRIGATION TO TWO DAYS PER WEEK BASED ON ADDRESS AND LOCATION AND DOESN'T ALLOW IRRIGATION BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 10 A.M. TO 4 P.M. IT ALSO MAKES FRIDAY A DRY DAY.

SO NO ONE IRGATES ON FRIDAY. IT'S WEDNESDAY OR SATURDAY OR THURSDAY AND SUNDAY. SOME LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN THE SPORT OF THE DISTRICT HAS A THREE DAY.

HAVE ADOPTED THE THREE-DAY OPTION.

OTHERS HAVE GONE WITH THE TWO-DAY OPTION EVEN IF THEY HAVE THE THREE-DAY OPTION. THE LISTS OF CONTRACTS AND LIST OF EXCEPTIONS FOR LOW VOLUME IRRIGATION.

WATERING CHEMICALS AND IRRIGATION SYSTEM MAINTENANCE.

THE USE OF RECLAIMED WATER IS EXEMPT FROM THE RULE.

THAT MEANS IF YOU USE RECLAIMED WATER TO IRRIGATE YOUR LAWN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SCHEDULE THAT IS PRESENTED IN

[03:25:01]

AND BY 2020, FEW LOCAL ORDINANCES HAVE BEEN ADOPTED.

SO THE DISTRICT'S GOVERNS BOARD DIRECTS STAFF TO ENGAGE WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO PROMOTE THE ADOPTION OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT OPTION. AND THAT IS BECAUSE THE AFFECTED IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS IRRIGATION CONSERVATION WILL BE DONE BY THE STAFF ALONE. WE COVER 16 COUNTIES AND WE DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO ENFORCE THE RULE ALL ACROSS THE DISTRICT. SO WE REALLY -- WE APPRECIATE THE HELP FROM LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND COUNTIES GETTING THE WORD OUT TO THE RESIDENTS. TO HELP LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, DISTRICT STAFF CREATED A MODEL ORDINANCE THAT MIRRORS CHAPTER 24. AND A PROPERLY CONSTRUCTED YEAR-ROUND ORDINANCE HAVE THREE ELEMENTS: THE DAYS AND TIMES THEIRGATION IS ALLOWED OR NOT ALLOWED BASED ON ADDRESS, EXCEPTIONS AND EXEMPTIONS. AND A PROVISION ASSESSMENT THAT INCLUDES THE ACTUAL PENALTIES. WE USUALLY RECOMMEND THAT PENALTIES ARE IN THE FORM OF WRITTEN WARNINGS FOR THE FIRST AND SECOND SINCE MORE OF AN EDUCATION EFFORT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE DISCRETION HOW TO TO ADMINISTER THOSE PENALTIES AND SOME HAVE JUST WRITTEN WARNINGS.

IT CONTAIN AS VARIANCE PROCEDURE FOR USERS THAT CANNOT MEET THE PRESCRIBABLE DAYS OR ALLOWABLE TIMES.

AS PEGGY MENTIONED, FORT PIERCE HAVE DRAFTED AN TO ORDINANCE THAT CONTAINS ALL OF THESE THREE ELEMENTS AND WE APPROVED IT.

NOW WHY SHOULD LOCAL GOVERNMENTS JOIN THIS INITIATIVE BY THE DISTRICT? OF COURSE, BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, MORE THAN HALF OF THE PUBLIC WATER SUPPLY IS USED FOR LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION. ALTHOUGH FLORIDA RECEIVES AN AVERAGE OF 52 INCHES OF RAIN PER YEAR, ABOUT 70% OF THAT IS LOSS DUE TO RUNOFF AND LIMITED STORAGE.

AS YOU KNOW, OUR STATE IS VERY FLAT AND NOT A LOT OF STORAGE.

SO A LOT OF THIS WATER THAT WE RECEIVE AS RAIN IS JUST LOST.

AND NO WAY TO RECOVER THAT. AND SOUTH FLORIDA'S POPULATION IS EXPECTED TO KEEP INCREASING AND SO ARE THE WATER DEMANDS.

YOU CAN SEE A GRAPH HERE THAT SHOWS THE PROJECTED POPULATION THROUGH 2040. AND THE DEMANDS.

AS THAT POPULATION GROWS. MORE PEOPLE IRRIGATING.

MORE WATER USED AND WATER SOURCES WILL BE UNDER A LOT OF STRESS. WE SHOULD ALSO MENTION THAT WE THINK AND WE FEEL THAT HAVING AN ORDINANCE IN YOUR BOOKS PROMOTES CONSERVATION ETHICS WITHIN THE CITY.

AND AS PART OF THE INITIATIVE, THE GOVERNING BOARD HAS ALSO MADE HAVING A LOCAL ORDINANCE A REQUIREMENT FOR GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE APPLYING FOR FUNDING. WITH THE DISTRICT.

SO IN 2021, THERE WAS BONUS POINTS FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE WHEN THE REVIEW PROCESS FOR FUNDING WAS IN PLACE AND NOW IT IS A REQUIREMENT.

SO IF A LOCAL GOVERNMENT APPLIES FOR FUNDING AND THEY HAVE NOT -- THEY DON'T HAVE AN ORDINANCE IN PLACE, THEIR APPLICATION WON'T BE CONSIDERED LEGIBLE FOR THE PROCESS OF REVIEWING.

IT -- THAT IS IMPORTANT FOR SOME GOVERNMENTS AND NOT SO IMPORTANT FOR OTHERS THAT DON'T APPLY FOR -- BUT THIS IS ALSO PART OF THE GOVERNING BOARD'S -- YOU KNOW INITIATIVE AND TRYING TO GET EVERYONE TO HAVE A LOCAL ORDINANCE IN PLACE THAT BASICALLY COVERS MOST OF THE ORDINANCE.

I'M HERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

I'M HERE WITH KATHY, OUR REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE MARTIN AND ST. LUCIE COUNTIES IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU, WE KNOW MISS MARTINA WELL.

I HAVE A QUESTION -- MAYBE THIS IS FOR YOU, PEGGER.

DO OUR PROPOSED ORDINANCE COINCIDE OR CORRELATE WITH ST.

LUCIE'S COUNTY? >> I AM ACTUALLY LOOKING AT MISS SARAH, BECAUSE WE DID COPY AND PASTE MOST OF THE ORDINANCE; HOWEVER, WE STUCK WITH THE TWO DAYS RECOMMENDED BY THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT.

>MAYOR HUDSON: ST. LOUIS COUNTY WENT TO THREE.

>> THEY WENT TO THREE AND WE ARE STUCK WITH THE TWO RECOMMENDED FROM THE SOUTH FLORIDA. SHE ALSO AMENDED SOME OTHER

[03:30:03]

I AM LOOKING TO MISS SARAH. IS THAT ACCURATE?

>> YES, MA'AM. THERE WERE A FEW THINGS THAT WE CHANGED WHEN WE LOOKED AT THEIR RULES TO MORE IN LINE WITH THEIR RULES BUT ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS ST. LUCIE COUNTY.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SO THIS -- THIS WILL BE A HUGE EDUCATION EFFORT IF WE TO THIS. HUGE.

>> YES, MA'AM. >>MAYOR HUDSON: BECAUSE THIS WILL BE SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT FOR MOST PEOPLE.

>> THE LAST TIME WE HAD A WATER RESTRICTION I THINK WAS WAY BACK IN 2006 OR '07 DURING THE DROUGHT THE LAST TIME WE IMPLEMENTED ANY TYPE OF WATER RESTRICTIONS.

SO, YES, IT WOULD NEED TO BE AN EDUCATION USING OUR SOCIAL MEDIA

AND FLYERS IN THE UAS. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WHEN WE DID THE FERTILIZER ORDINANCE, THE EDUCATION FROM THE COUNTY OR IFUS. SOME STATION TO MOSTLY TO LANDSCAPING BUSINESSES, ETC., ETC.

BUT THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE MUCH MORE INTENSE BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE TO BE -- YOU KNOW, PROPERTY OWNERS OR RESIDENTS.

>> CORRECT, CORRECT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY.

MISS LA MARTINA, WELCOME. >> KATHY LA MARTINA.

I HAVE ANOTHER IDEA. I WAS TALKING TO THE COUNTIES ABOUT THIS. WHAT I THINK WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA FOR IFUS, THE WATER MANAGE DISTRICT, THE COUNTIES, THE TWO CITIES GET TOGETHER AND DO A WORKSHOP THAT WE CAN INVITE THE HOAS, THE HOA MANAGEMENT COMPANIES, THE IRRIGATION COMPANIES, AND SHOW THEM, YOU KNOW THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO.

THIS IS THE NEW ORDINANCE. ALSO THE FERTILIZER ORDINANCE AND ALL THAT. AND KEEPING WITH THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. THEY DON'T KNOW YOU KNOW THE NUSHGZHOAS. THE MANAGEMENT COMPANIES THAT NEED TO KNOW. W WE CAN INCORPORATE INTO STORM PRESS AND WE HAVE THOSE ISSUES WHERE PEOPLE DON'T CLEAN THEIR SYSTEM. WE CAN HAVE THIS BIG WATER RESOURCE DAY OR SOMETHING. I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT AND AT NO COST TO THE CITY, JUST POSSIBLY HAVING ONE OF YOUR

STAFFERS THERE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: AND VENUE.

QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER GAINES.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR THE ORDINANCE. IN MY DISTRICT, SOME OF THE ELDERLY RESIDENTS, WHEN THEY BUILT THEIR HOMES, THEY BUILT WELLS FOR THEIR IRRIGATION SYSTEM.

SOME OF THEM ARE STUCK IN THEIR WAYS.

IT IS THEIR WELLS. THEY CAN RUN THEIR IRRIGATION SYSTEM. I AM TELLING WHAT YOU I HEARD.

HOW WILL I GET TO THEM TO TELL THEM THAT, HEY, GUYS, YOU ARE ALSO PART OF THIS MANAGEMENT PLAN BECAUSE IN THEIRS MINDS IT IS -- IT IS THEIR WATER BECAUSE THEY BUILT THE WELL.

SO HOW CAN WE GET THAT MESSAGE ACROSS.

AND SO YOU -- PEGGY, SO YOU WOULDN'T BE GETTING.

IF WE GO OUT AND PUT TAGS. YOU CAN PUT TAGS IN MY DISTRICT.

YOU WILL GET THEM CALLS AND THEM E-MAILS WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT.

I JUST ASK THE QUESTION. >> WELL, ALTHOUGH THEY FEEL IT IS THEIR WATER BECAUSE THEY DUG THE WELL, ALL WATER IS.PERTAINS TO THE STATE. SO IT IS MANAGED BY THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. IF IT IS NOT AA LINED WELL AND CONNECTS WITH THE HYDROLOGICAL SYSTEM, IT IS --

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU JUST GIVE THEM THEIR NUMBER.

THE SOUTHWEST MANAGEMENT. >> IF YOU HAVE A RETENTION POND AND IT IS WITHIN YOUR COMMUNITY, BUT CONNECTED TO THE HYDROLOGICAL SYSTEM, IT IS STILL MANAGED BY THE DISTRICT.

ALTHOUGH THEY DON'T HAVE THE WATER USE PERMIT, THEY FALL AND YOU A CATEGORY GENERAL PERMIT BY RULE.

IN A WAY HAVE AN ISSUE BY DISTRICT AND THEY DON'T HAVE IT ON PAPER. BUT STILL.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: HIS POINT IS THAT HE WILL EN COUNTSER THAT.

HAVE THEM CALL KATHY LA MARTINA. ABOVE OUR PAY GRADE.

>> NOT YOUR INFORMATION TO GIVE BECAUSE MAYBE YOU WILL TELL YOU THAT AND THEY WILL BE LIKE NO, IN THIS MY WELL.

[03:35:03]

AND ALSO WE CAN OFFER EDUCATIONAL MATERIALS THAT WE HAVE THAT EXPLAIN HOW THINGS WORK.

AND WHY -- BECAUSE WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO IS NOT TO COMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BUT BECAUSE OUR WATER RESOURCES ARE ACTUALLY UNDER STRESS AND HELPING TO DIMINISH THE OCCURRENCES OF WATER SHORTAGES, YOU KNOW DIMINISHING THE WATER RUNOFF WITH EXCESSIVE IRRIGATION. AND AS WE KNOW, PEOPLE OVERIRRIGATE IN SOUTH FLORIDA BY A LOT.

SOMETIMES YOU HAVE PEOPLE IRRIGATING EVERY DAY WHEN WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS ACTUALLY HURTING YOUR LAWN AND MAKING IT SICK. SO IT IS PART OF THE EDUCATION THAT WE WANT TO PROVIDE. WE DO OFFER EDUCATION, YOU KNOW, MATERIALS THAT WE CAN PREPARE AND GIVE OUT TO COMMUNITIES AND EXPLAIN TO THEM WHY IT IS IMPORTANT AND NOT THAT WE ARE RESTRICTING IRRIGATION. BUT ALLOWING ENOUGH IRRIGATION.

THE IRRIGATION THAT YOU ACTUALLY NEED.

NOT THAT WE ARE CUTTING OFF THE AMOUNT THAT YOU NEED.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION?

ANY QUESTIONS? >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. SOMETHING WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME AND I AM GLAD THE DISTRICT IS DOING IT AND TO BE A PART OF IT. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT IS IMPORTANT. AT THE END OF THE DAY WE CAN FROM FPUA HERE AND PRODUCE WATER.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WE KNOW WHAT SHE WANTS.

SHE WANTS TO CONSERVE WATER. THAT IS WHAT SHE WANTS.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: CONSERVE WATER AND WATER

CONSERVATION. >>MAYOR HUDSON: SO MANY PEOPLE MOVING TO FLORIDA. 1,000 PEOPLE A DAY ARE MOVING TO FLORIDA. WE ALL SHOULD BE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THERE IS A TRAIN ON OUR WATER RESOURCES.

AND THE MORE PEOPLE THAT COME, THE BIGGER THE STRAIN.

>> IF THE CITY PASS THIS ORDINANCE, THAN HOAS.

BECAUSE HOAS ARE CONSIDERED NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES THEY CAN APPLY TO THE DISTRICT FOR WATER CONSERVATION MONIES TO PUT IN IRRIGATION SYSTEMS THAT THEY ARE ASKING US TO DO.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU ARE TALKING THE HOA?

>> THAT IS SOMETHING YOU CAN OFFER TO THEM TOO.

BECAUSE GREAT TO HAVE A NEW IRRIGATION SYSTEM THAT YOU DON'T

HAVE TO TURN ON OR TURN OFF. >>MAYOR HUDSON: HAS ST. LUCIE COUNTY ENACTED THEIR ORDINANCE ALREADY?

>> YES. >>MAYOR HUDSON: HOW ARE THEY

ENFORCING IT? >> WE ASK FOR IT.

BUT NOT -- WE WANT TO EDUCATE AND WE --

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU WANT COMPLIANCE LIKE OTHER PARTS OF CODE ENFORCEMENT. YOU DON'T --

>> WE WANT IT TO BE SECOND NATURE.

PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND FIRST. >> THAT IS WHY WE RECOMMEND THE FIRST VIOLATION. IT IS JUST A -- A WRITTEN WARNING. AND NOT EVEN A WARNING.

JUST TELL THEM -- >>MAYOR HUDSON: ALMOST AN

EDUCATIONAL VISIT. >> IT SHOULD BE POSTED EVERYWHERE. AND, OF COURSE, IF YOU RECEIVE A CALL OR WHATEVER, YOU WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW UP.

SOMETIMES WE RECEIVE THE CALLS, NOT EVEN THE COUNTIES.

BECAUSE THEY CALL US. >>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YES, SIR. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: RACHEL IS LISTENING. MAY BE GOOD TO HAVE YOU TO SEND THE COMMISSION THE WELLFIELD MAP SO WE CAN GET EDUCATED OURSELVES. THE WELLS THAT SUPPLY OUR WATER PLANT. GOOD INFORMATION TO HAVE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: A GOOD IDEA. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: SO WE CAN HAVE IT AND SHARE THE INFORMATION.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: PUT ON THE RECORD, COMMISSIONER.

I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION THOUGH. WITH THIS NEW RESTRICTION IRRIGATION ORDINANCE THAT WE ARE CONSIDERING, WE HAVE APPROVED A LOT OF NEW CONSTRUCTION AND WE VOTED ON SOME NEW DEVELOPMENTS COMING IN AND SOME NEW CONSTRUCTION COMING IN.

ARE WE TELLING THESE POTENTIAL PARTNERS OF OURS IN FORT PIERCE

THAT THIS RESTRICTION -- >> I CAN ANSWER THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GET A WATER USE PERMIT FROM US.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I AM JUST --

>> THAT COMES IN THE PERMIT. ALTHOUGH IT IS A NEW PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CITY, THE RULE COVERS EVERYONE THAT THEY SHOULD BE FOLLOWING IT EVEN IF THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE IT ON THEIR BOOKS BECAUSE DISTRICT-WIDE. IRRIGATING LIKE A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY AND A WATER USE PERMIT AND ONE OF THE CONDITIONS IN THE PER PERMIT.

>>.APPROACHED BY AN INDIVIDUAL OUTSIDE AND THEY SAID ASK IF

[03:40:03]

>> SEVERAL EXEMPTIONS TOO. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: WE GET OUR PACKAGES AND SAYS APPROVAL FROM SOUTH FLORIDA -- THAT IS ALL -- THAT COME UP TO THEM AND THEY KNOW ABOUT IRRIGATION WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IN FORT PIERCE AND THE COUNTY.

WHAT I DON'T WANT ARE THE APPROVALS THAT WE HAVE MADE -- YOU KNOW STORAGE FACILITIES. THOSE NEW -- THOSE NEW DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE MADE. WE GET THEM -- BOOTS ON THE GROUND AND HITTING WITH AN IRRIGATION ORDER.

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: THE ACTUAL DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION AND NOT

THE WATER IN THAT DEVELOPMENT. >> YOU ARE ALLOWED ONE WELL PER HOUSEHOLD -- OR HOME OR DUPLEX TO IRRIGATE.

YOU FALL UNDER A WATER PERMIT BY RULE.

ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT, YOU NEED A WATER USE PERMIT AND COME WITH THE CONDITIONS OF WATER CONSERVATION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANY -- ARE WE GOOD TO GO WITH A PROPOSED ORDINANCE.

>> THE ORDINANCE DRAFTED AND REVIEWED BY LEGAL AND BY THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, AND WE ARE

READY TO HAVE IT ON THE AGENDA. >>MAYOR HUDSON: COMPLICATED THING THAT THESE PEOPLE GET TO DO IT ON TUESDAY OR THESE PEOPLE GOT TO DO IT ON WEDNESDAY, THAT KIND OF STUFF?

>> IT IS WRITTEN ON THE ORDINANCE THAT YOU DRAFTED BECAUSE IT IS PART OF IT AND IF YOU HAVE AN EVEN ADDRESS ON A EVEN NUMBER YOU GET TWO DAYS AND THEN A DIFFERENT TWO DAYS.

>> I UNDERSTAND STAND THAT, BUT STILL AN EDUCATION.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, MY QUESTION IS -- MISS MARTINEZ, I THINK THAT IS HER NAME, THIS JOINT MEETING.

WILL THAT COME BEFORE THIS LEGISLATION COMES BEFORE US OR

AFTER? >> GETTING BOTH CITIES AND THE COUNTIES TO DO ALL OF THIS STUFF.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: YOU MENTIONED IT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU WOULDN'T DO ONE JUST FOR FORT PIERCE?

>>MAYOR: I COULD. >>MAYOR HUDSON: IF ST. LUCIE COUNTY IS DIFFERENT. HAS PORT ST. LUCIE.

>> MADE THE MEETING? >>MAYOR: FOR THREE DAYS.

WE WILL BE THE ODD MAN OUT. >> CORRECT, WE WENT WITH THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. WE DIDN'T EXPAND BEYOND THAT.

IF THAT IS WHAT THE COMMISSION WANTS US TO DO.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THE FERTILIZER ORDINANCE, WE TRIED TO MAKE IT UNIFORM ACROSS THE COUNTY, AND THAT WAS THEN AND THIS IS NOW.

>> SOME DIRECTION YOU WILL WANT TO PUT IT BEFORE ME FOR A

NIGHTTIME HEARING. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THAT'S WHAT I AM ASKING. HAVE THAT PRIOR TO GIVE THE CITIZENS A CHANCE. WE HAD EXPERIENCES THAT PEOPLE SAY AT LEAST THEY CLAIM THEY DIDN'T HEAR CERTAIN THINGS AND GOT HERE AND PROLONGED. AT LEAST WE GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO DO THAT AND LEGISLATIVE HEARING AND THEY CAN COME IN.

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: MADAM MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF THE CITY OF COMMISSION. MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE, VERY NICE TO HAVE A MEETING HERE IN CITY HALL, BUT AN EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION STRATEGY YOU HAVE GOT TO GO TO THE PEOPLE. YOU CAN SAY YOU ARE HAVING A WATER CONSERVATION MEETING AND 17 PEOPLE WILL SHOW UP.

BUT IF YOU GO TO THE PEOPLE, THE NEIGHBORHOODS, MORE EFFECTIVE.

THAT IS THE EDUCATION STRATEGY, IT WILL TAKE MUCH LONGER TO

IMPLEMENT. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, I AM OKAY WITH US BEING DIFFERENT BECAUSE I HAVE A FEELING THAT THE JURISDICTIONS WILL CHANGE FROM THREE TO TWO IN NUMBER FIVE YEARS AND WE WILL BE IN THE SAME BOAT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: WE WANT TO AT LEAST ENGAGE THEM AND TAKING IT TO DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES TO HEAR AND HAVE

THIS CONVERSATION. >>MAYOR HUDSON: BEFORE WE ENACT

IT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: I WILL SAY WE ENACT IT AND THEN DO THAT BECAUSE -- BUT EVERYBODY ELSE

CAN WEIGH IN. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I GUESS PART OF THIS IS THERE IS SOME CONFUSION.

I AM STILL REACTING WHAT HAPPENED LAST MONTH WHEN PEOPLE COME HERE HAVING AN OPINION OF SOMETHING THAT WAS MISINFORMED.

WE HAVE COMMUNITIES THAT TRADITIONALLY HAVE A BELIEF BECAUSE THEY HAVE WELL SYSTEMS THAT -- WE ARE UNDOING A CULTURE THAT IS INGRAINED HERE AND NOW DOING SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT. NEW GROWTH COMING IN AND EASY FOR THE NEWER COMMUNITIES. AND WE HAVE A HEAVY TRADITIONAL

[03:45:04]

WE MAY HAVE BUT HAVEN'T PRACTICED THEM AND GOTTEN PEOPLE TO BUY INTO IT. INSTEAD OF -- IF I HEAR YOU RIGHT WE ARE MOVING THAT FORWARD BUT LET'S BRING THE PEOPLE ALONG WITH US. AND SEEM THAT WE WILL HAVE SOME TYPE OF ENGAGEMENT PRIOR TO LEGISLATION IN OUR CHAMBER THAT WILL FILL IT UP WITH PEOPLE BEING MISINFORMED AND WE ARE HERE HAVING THESE VERY IRATE AND UPSET CITIZENS ABOUT INFORMATION THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE. THAT IS ALL I AM TRYING TO REACT

TO. >>MAYOR HUDSON: I DON'T HAVE STRONG FEELINGS. KATHY.

>> WHAT YOU CAN DO, THOUGH, IS YOU CAN APPROVE IT AND HAVE IT GO INTO EFFECT SIX MONTHS, NINE MONTHS LATER AND THAT PERIOD OF TIME, THAT IS WHEN WE WILL GO OUT AND PROVIDE THE EDUCATION.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: OKAY.

WHATEVER SHE WANTS TO DO. >> AND DELRAY BEACH DID TOO.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SO WE APPROVE IT AND HAVE A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE

WE ARE BRINGING PEOPLE ALONG. >> YES, LIKE A TRANSITION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: LIKE A TRANSITION.

SO YOU ARE NOT HANDING OUT RED STICKERS ORO OR -- YOU ARE EDUCATING PEOPLE BUT NOT PUNISHING PEOPLE FOR A PERIOD OF

TIME. >> PART OF THE EDUCATION HERE IS THE EFFECTIVE DATE. JULY 1 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SO -- DOES THAT HELP -- DO YOU THINK THAT HELPS?

NO? >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WOULD CHANGE THOUGH.

I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WOULD CHANGE.

WE ARE TALKING TO OUR STATE AGENCIES AND OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT GOVERN WATER RESOURCES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA WHICH IS LIMITED NOW AND WE HAVE OUR OWN UTILITY THAT PERMITTED FOR SO MANY MAIN GALLONS A DAY AND THAT'S IT.

THE DROUGHT COMES AND WE HAVE TO BE READY FOR IT.

THAT'S WHERE I AM COMING FROM. WHERE IS THE DRY SEASON FOR OUR

AREA SPECIFICALLY. >> OCTOBER TO MAY.

OCTOBER THROUGH MAY. LATE OCTOBER INTO ENDS OF APRIL.

>> OCTOBER 15 TO MAY 15. >> SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

WE HAVE BEEN UNDER RESTRICTIONS BEFORE, BUT IT HAS BEEN A WHOO WHILE. IT IS TOUGH, ON SOME UTILITIES.

>> LAST YEAR AT SPRINGTIME, THIS CLOSE TO HAVE WATER RESTRICTION

IT IS TOUGH, ON SOME UTILITIES. >> LAST YEAR AT SPRINGTIME, THIS CLOSE TO HAVE WATER RESTRICTION. IT IS TOUGH, ON SOME UTILITIES.

>> LAST YEAR AT SPRINGTIME, THIS CLOSE TO HAVE WATER REST

RESTRICTIONS. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THAT IS ANOTHER PART. EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: A HUGE CHANGE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: IT IS.

YOU GOT TO CHANGE YOUR TIME CLOCK.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: COMMISSIONER GAINES.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: MADAM MAYOR, I AM ALL FOR PROTECTING THE WATER FOR THE FUTURE GENERATION SO AS -- IF A DROUGHT COMES, WE WILL BE READY, BUT I AM SURPRISED I DIDN'T GET THIS QUESTION FROM MY COLLEAGUES TO THE LEFT OF ME -- COLLEAGUES TO THE LEFT OF ME, WHO IS GOING TO ENFORCE? WHO IS GOING TO ENFORCE THIS ORDINANCE AND IS THIS A COST TO

ENFORCE THE ORDINANCE. >> THE ENFORCEMENT PER THE CODE, IS CODE ENFORCEMENT AS WELL AS LAW ENFORCEMENT AND EVERYBODY ELSE DESIGNATED BY THE CITY MANAGER.

AND THE CITY MANAGER CAN APPOINT ANYBODY AND FALL TO CODE ENFORCEMENT. NO WATERING BETWEEN 10 AND 4 P.M. THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT.

IF SOMEBODY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DA DAY IS WATERING.

THEY WILL HAVE TO PUT IN NEW PLANTS, FLOWERS AND JUST PUT THE FERTILIZER. HIGH SUMMER, YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT BETWEEN 10 AND 4 BECAUSE CAN BURN YOUR LAWN UP.

IF SOMEONE IS WATERING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, WE CAN ADDRESS THAT. THE NIGHTTIME ORDERING WHERE IT IS GOING TO BE UP TO PROBABLY MY NEIGHBOR TO SEE A CHRONIC VIOLATOR AND WORK WITH THE PD. WE ARE NOT OUT IN THE EARLY MORNING AND NIGHTTIMES. AGAIN THAT DAYTIME, THAT 10 A.M.

TO 4 P.M., THAT WILL BE THE MAJORITY OF THE ISSUES THAT WE EASILY WILL BE ABLE TO ADDRESS AND WE WILL STOP AND FIND OUT

WHY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: MR. MIMMS.

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: IT WILL BE CODE ENFORCEMENT.

NOT HAVE OUR POLICE OFFICERS TO INSPECT LAWNS AND IRRIGATION.

THEY WILL DO IT WHEN THEY CAN. I AM BEING HONEST WITH YOU, NOT

EVEN A MEDIUM PRIORITY. >> WE ARE FINE WITH THAT.

[03:50:11]

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WE ARE TRYING TO ESTABLISH A CULTURE OF EVERYBODY THINKING OF CONSERVATION AND REALLY WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO. AND WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE A SUGGESTION ORDINANCE, RIGHT.

WE HAVE TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE OR NOT AN ORDINANCE.

CAN'T JUST SUGGEST. I DO KNOW THAT I HEARD YOU WHEN YOU SAID IN ORDER TO GET CERTAIN GRANTS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS ORDINANCE. YOU GUYS REQUIRE THIS -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO GRANT ANYBODY ANYTHING, YOU GUYS REQUIRE THIS.

I THINK THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE A BLENDED THING OF ENACTING IT AND THEN A TIME PERIOD OF SO EDUCATION AND REAL -- REAL -- YOU KNOW, A REAL EFFORT OF TRYING TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM BEING TOO UPSET ABOUT IT. KIND OF SLOWLY CHANGE THE

QUALITY OF THEIR THINKING. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I AGREE WITH YOU, MADAM MAYOR, THE POINT TO EMPHASIZE.

I FEEL THAT THE STICK IS COMING BEFORE THE CARROT AND WHOOP HIM ACROSS THE HEAD, AND IT GETS BLOWN UP HERE.

AND I AM OKAY WITH A BLEND. EVEN THIS TODAY STARTS A CONVERSATION. AND QUITE FRANKLY IF WE KNOW THIS ORDINANCE IS COMING IN FEBRUARY, I THINK WE START TALK ABOUT THAT NOW. WE START THEIR CAMPAIGN NOW TALKING ABOUT CONCERN OF CONSERVATION OF ORDER AND MAYBE HOLD SOME PUBLIC FORUMS BETWEEN THE OFFERED NANCE COME.

AND ALLOW FOR THE ORDINANCE AND CONTINUE THAT CAMPAIGN THAT WILL ALLOW FOR THEM TO PHASE IN AND UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE DOING.

THE LAST TWO MONTHS HAVE BEEN VERY TROUBLING TO ME OF HOW THIS COMMUNITY HAS GOTTEN THINGS MISCONSTRUED AND WRONG.

AND TRANSPARENT AND THEN WE ARE ACCUSED OF NOT BEING TRANSPARENT AND THAT IS WHAT I AM REACT TOO. WHEN YOU MENTIONED PREMEETING OR SOUNDS LIKE PORT ST. LUCIE IS DOWN THE TRACK.

FOR US, I LIKE TO SEE THIS. WE START THE PUBLIC CAMPAIGN NOW. HEY, WE HAVE WATER CONCERNS.

LET'S GET TO THE PRESS. LET'S HAVE PRESS RELEASES HERE.

THE CITY IS CONSIDERING DOING THIS.

THAT HELPS WITH THAT PROCESS IN MY MIND AS A MARKETER.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU ARE RIGHT. EVERYTHING ELSE?

ARE YOU CLEAR? >> SURE I WILL GO WITH MR. MIMMS

FOR A PLAN. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE UNDERSTAND THE NEED AND WANT TO DO IT. BUT WE DOCTOR WE WANT OUR CITIZENS TO BE BROUGHT ALONG WITH US.

BECAUSE QUITE HONESTLY, WE KNOW WHERE WE ARE ON THIS ISSUE.

AND IF WE WANTED THIS FOR THE PANDEMIC, IF THE PANDEMIC HADN'T INTERFERED WITH IT, WE WOULD BE MUCH FURTHER ALONG.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COM

[d. Discussion of creating a dog friendly beach in Fort Pierce]

COMING. >> THE NEXT ITEM WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA IS THE DISCUSSION OF CREATING A DOG-FRIENDLY BEACH IN

FORT PIERCE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: MR. MIMMS.

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: MAYOR HUDSON, THIS WAS BROUGHT TO US BY A MEMBER OF THE CITY COMMISSION. LET OUR DIRECTOR COME DOWN AND HELP NAVIGATE SOME OF THE AUDIO AND VISUAL IF WE WANT TO DISCUSS WHERE THIS WILL BE IMPLEMENTED AND HOW IMPLEMENTATION WILL TAKE PLACE. WE DON'T HAVE A PRESENTATION.

MADAM MAYOR, IF YOU WANT TO KICK THIS OFF AND DISCUSS, WE ARE ALL EARS AND HELP WITH THIS DISCUSSION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I THINK HE WAS BEING VERY, VERY POLITIC BECAUSE I THINK THIS CAME FROM ME AND SO HE -- LATELY HAVE RECEIVED SOME VERY PASSIONATE PLEAS FOR BEING ABLE TO HAVE YOUR DOG IN OUR PARKS AND ACCUSING US OF ALL KIND OF HATING ANIMALS, ETC., ETC., AND I ALSO HAVE HAD DOG OWNERS TALK TO ME INDIVIDUALLY AND SAY WE NEED A CLOSER DOG PARK ON THE BEACH CLOSER TO WALTON ROCKS. SO I REVIEWED WHAT WAS THE PRESENTATION THAT WAS, I BELIEVE, PACK IN 2018.

A AND.

I ALSO HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO SOME PEOPLE ABOUT IT BECAUSE I KNOW ONCE YOU START TALKING ABOUT DOGS, YOU BRING OUT TWO GREAT BIG GROUPS OF PEOPLE THOSE WHO WERE PASSIONATE AND ONE WHO

[03:55:04]

I HAVE DEALT WITH THAT BEFORE IN ANOTHER VENUE, SO -- SO AT ANY RATE, I WANTED TO -- FOR THE COMMISSION TO THINK ABOUT THIS.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK WAS DIFFICULT THAT I LEARNED FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE IS -- IF YOU HAVE -- IF YOU HAVE DOGS ON THE -- IF YOU HAVE A DOG BEACH THAT IS CLOSE WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE AROUND, YOU WILL HAVE FENCING ON THE BEACH AND FENCING ON THE BEACH IS NOT PRACTICAL.

WHERE THAT DOG PARK RIGHT NOW WALTON ROCKS.

NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND AND WASN'T A REQUIREMENT FOR THE KIND OF WALLING OFF OF THE BEACH ALTHOUGH EVENTUALLY THERE IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE IN THERE.

SO I DON'T KNOW -- YOU WANT TO WALK US THROUG THE PRESENTATION OR TALK ABOUT THE HIGH POINTS ABOUT IT.

I READ THEIR PRESENTATION. I HAD FORGOTTEN ALL THE DETAILS ABOUT THAT. AND I THINK I DISH PERSONALLY THINK SINCE I BROUGHT THIS UP THAT IF WE ARE GOING TO DO -- HAVE A DOG -- A DOG FRIENDLY BEACH IN FORT PIERCE, IT IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT. AND IT IS GOING -- IT IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED ALL DOGS TO BE LEASHED AND MANY DOG OWNERS DON'T WANT TO LEASH THEIR DOGS. SO -- I WANTED TO BRING IT TO THIS COMMISSION. AND DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY IN TERMS OF WHAT THE COMMITTEE DID BEFORE?

>> MADAM MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, I AM MERE LEELY HERE TO WALK YOU THROUGH THE PRESENTATION THAT THEY DID DO.

THE PARKS ADVISORY COMMITTEE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THIS PROJECT. ALMOST FIVE YEARS.

BRINGING IT UP FOR DISCUSSION NOW IS A GOOD THING TO DO, BUT WE CAN GO SLIDE BY SLIDE OR IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS, OR WHATEVER. I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY

QUESTIONS. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED -- THE COMPLAINTS I WAS GETTING IS THAT THE POLICE WERE GIVING PEOPLE TICKETS OR WHATEVER THEY DO, ENFORCEMENT.

AND THIS IS ONEROUS FOR THE DOG OWNERS TO BE TICKETED BY A POLICEMAN. AND I CAN'T IMAGINE A POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS HAPPY ABOUT DOING THIS BECAUSE A DOG OWNER DOESN'T WANT ITS DOG NOT TO BE WELCOMED ANYWHERE.

I KNOW THAT. AND I THINK -- BUT I THINK OUR ENFORCEMENT IS PROBABLY -- I MEAN THAT -- THAT IS KIND OF LIKE ENFORCING THE IRRIGATION TIMES IN A WAY.

WE WANT OUR POLICE OFFICERS TO DO SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN THAT SO I BRING IT TO YOU GUYS IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS.

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: ALSO MADAM MAYOR, IF YOU GET TO THE RECOMMENDATION AND THE CONCLUSION OF THE PARKS ADVISORY COMMITTEE. AND MADAM MAYOR, YOU LOOKED AT THE PROSPECTIVE WOULD BE PORPOISE BEACH ACCESS.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I DID BUT NOT THINKING -- DOG PARK HAVING TO BE KIND OF CORDONED OFF AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS PRACTICAL.

>> PORPOISE PARK BEACH SINCE YOU NOTICED IT IS OPEN.

IT IS HEAVILY USED AND FILLED CONSISTENTLY AND I WAS CONCERNED OF THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION. I -- I GUESS POLITICALLY CORRECT, I WON'T GET INTO DO YOU LOVE DOGS ON THE PEACH OR DON'T LIKE DOGS ON THE BEACH LIKE PULLING A PIN OUT OF THE GRENADE. THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION COULD BE SOMEWHAT PROBLEMATIC AND REALLY HEAVILY USED AND IT WAS BEING USED CONSTANTLY SO YEAH, I WILL STAY OUT OF THE SUBJECTIVE PORTION OF THE DISCUSSION. AND WHAT THE CONCERNS WERE ALL THINGS THAT I WAS NOT REALLY TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: IS IT POSSIBLE TO SECURE AN AREA OF THE BEACH FOR THIS TYPE OF USE OR A TRACT OF LAND THIS BIG AND THE DOG PARK -- YOU CAN'T LET THE DOG -- THE DOGS RUN LOOSE ON

THE BEACH NOW, ALL THE TIME. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: HOW YOU MANAGE IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A PHYSICALITY OF IT.

I DON'T KNOW. MIKE, MAYBE YOU HAVE GREAT IDEAS

ON THAT, BUT I AM NOT -- NOT -- >> I DON'T.

WHEN THE PARKS ADVISORY CMMITTEE REVIEWED THIS, THEY PUT A LOT OF TIME IN IT. AND THE CONSENSUS AT THAT TIME

[04:00:08]

PLENTY OF PARKING. REST ROOM FACILITIES, WATER, ALL THAT. WE PUT A LOT OF TIME IN TRYING TO MAKE IT WORK AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEIR RECOMMENDATION WAS WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD FIT WITHIN --

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THEY IDENTIFIED THAT PROBLEM RIGHT UP

FRONT. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, THE BEACHES THAT ARE PROVIDED LIFEGUARDS CERTAIN TIMES OF YEAR BY THE COUNTY AND TRYING TO RELATE THAT WITH POPULATION. SO BLUE HER COMES TO MIND AND

NEXT TO OCEAN OCEAN VILLAGE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THEY ARE VERY CLEAR OF DOGS ON A THEIR BEACH. RIGHT.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THAT IS THE CHALLENGE.

A SOCIAL MEDIA CRAZE AND SHARING IT WITH STAFF LAST WEEK, TWO WEEKS, THREE WEEKS AGO I SAW THIS WHOLE THING WITH WALTON ROCKS WHERE THE TRASH REC RECEPTACLES WERE REMOVED BECAUSE OF THE HURRICANE. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY FULLY GOT THEM REPLACED OR NOT AND I MAY BE MESSING UP THE LOCATION BUT THE POINT OF THE STORY THE COMPLAINTS AND THE SOCIAL MEDIA CRAZE THAT WAS WATCHING WAS, OH, THEY DIDN'T REPLACE THE RECEPTACLES AND TRASH EVERYWHERE AND DOG BAGS EVERYWHERE.

MY GOSH, WE GO TO THE BEACH AND BRING A DOG AND STILL DON'T REMOVE THE TRASH. HAS TO BE A TRASH RECEPTACLE BEFORE I AM RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO REMOVE MY OWN TRASH IF I AM THE PERSON WITH THE DOG. MY POINT IS THAT IT IS MORE BURDEN ON PUBLIC WORKS AND THINK OF ADDITIONAL RECEPTACLES AT LOCATION AND EMPTY IN A MORE FREQUENT MANNER AND ADDS TO INFORMATION NOT ON THE SCREEN MORE SERVICE WHICH WILL BE CHALLENGING. I AM NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T DO IT.

>> MAINTENANCE AND ENFORCEMENT. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THE CRAZE I WAS WATCHING IS UNIQUE. THE TIMING IS HAPPENING KNOWING

THAT THIS WAS COMING FORWARD. >>MAYOR HUDSON: I THINK IN INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, AND THE TOWN OF RICKET AND INDIAN RIVER SHORES. DO WE HAVE DOGS ON THE BEACH

WITH LEASHES OR UNLEASHED. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THE ENTIRE PROBLEM. PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT DOG FANS

DATABASE -- THAT IS A PROBLEM. >>MAYOR HUDSON: ALL RIGHT.

I BROUGHT IT TO YOU. WE TALKED ABOUT IT.

ANYBODY CAN COME UP WITH ANYTHING CREATIVE?

IF NOT -- >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I WANT TO BE CLEAR, INFORMATION IS FOR WALTON ROCKS? MARY THARZ THAT IS WHAT IT WAS. THIS IS AN OLD PRESENTATION.

WHEN I READ IT. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE UNHAPPY THEY HAVE TO DRIVE TO WALTON ROCKS. WE WOULD RATHER GO TO JAYCEE AND SOUTH CAUSEWAY WITH THEIR DOG. SOME OF THEM DO.

>>NICHOLAS MIMMS: WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DOG PARK AT MIRABELLA PARK SEPARATED INTO LARGER DOGS AND LITTLE DOGS.

IT IS UTILIZED AND GORGEOUS AND THOSE STAPLE FOLKS CAN GO

TO MIRABELLA PARK. >>MAYOR HUDSON: PROMOTION OF BOTH OF NOSE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE CAN MOVE ON.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I GOT MYSELF IN ENOUGH TROUBLE ON THAT

ONE. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: COMMISSIONER BRODERICK, WHEN I READ MY PACKAGE -- I READ MY PACKAGE, WHAT? I DON'T THINK I HAVE EVER BEEN TO A BEACH AND HAVEN'T SEEN A DOG.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: BELIEVE ME, YOU ARE RIGHT.

[5. COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC Any person who wishes to comment on any subject may be heard at this time. Please limit your comments to three (3) minutes or less, as directed by the Mayor, as this section of the Agenda is limited to thirty minutes. The City Commission will not be able to take any official actions under Comments from the Public. Speakers will address the Mayor, Commissioners, and the Public with respect. Inappropriate language will not be tolerated.]

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WE JUST LEAVE IT ALONE.

>> NEXT -- THE NEXT SECTION IS THE COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ANY MEMBER FROM THE PUBLIC LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION? PLEASE COME FORWARD.

YOU HAVE BEEN PATIENTLY WAITING, AND I APPRECIATE IT.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: ALL DAY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WELCOME.

>> JOHN MALLY, SEA WAY DRIVE. I AM SURE MANY OF YOU KNOW ME.

BASICALLY THE ONE QUESTION I DID ASK -- I KNOW IT IS A LITTLE LATE NOW, BUT A MATTER IF -- IF SOUND IS DIFFERENT THROUGH --

[04:05:02]

SO IF WE EVER HAVE AN EXPERT HERE AGAIN MIGHT BE A GOOD

QUESTION, BECAUSE THE RELEVANCE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: MAYBE WE CAN

E-MAIL HIM. >> ACTUALLY WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LIKE COMMISSIONER JOHNSON SAID, IT'S -- YOU KNOW, TO AMPLIFY OR NOT TO AMPLIFY. ALL THE REST OF IT -- AND YOU NARROW IT DOWN MR. BRODERICK, DOWN TO -- A MATTER IF WE CAN HAVE A PERSON ENTERTAINING PEOPLE IN PERSON PLUGGED INTO ANY AMPLIFICATION. THAT IS ALL WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT. TIMES, WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. SOUND LEVEL, WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. AND THE OTHER THING, THOUGH TOO IS -- AGAIN, I WANT TO KIND OF STAY AWAY FROM THE DECIBEL PART, BUT YOU NKNOW THEY PLAYED AT 60 BUT ANY AMBIENT.

IF PEOPLE WERE BACK HERE TALKING AND THEY PLAY THAT, YOU WOULD HEAR IT A LOT LESS. THIS PLAY INTO THE EXPERIENCE OF LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AND WHY WE NEED IT AMPLIFIED BECAUSE IT DOES NEED TO REACH MORE -- WHEN I LOOKED UP AT THE SCREEN, AND THEY WERE TELLING YOU WHAT EACH DECIBEL READING WAS.

IT WAS THREE FOOT -- A CONVERSATION OF THREE FOOT IS WHAT IT WAS SAID UP THERE. A BIG DIFFERENCE THAN THE CONVERSATION AT 50 FEET. SO, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO BE A BUSINESS, WE ARE NOT CATERING TO THE ONE PERSON WE ARE TALKING TO THE MUSICIANS THAT WE ARE TALKING WITH OR CODE IMMEDIATE YEN AND WHATEVER OTHER IT MAY BE.

WE WOULD WANT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER RECEPTION THAN THE THREE FOOT FOR PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ABLE TO HEAR.

THAT'S ABOUT IT. AND, AGAIN, SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SPECIFIC LOCATION, WE ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO INVITE EVERYBODY TO COME OVER. CHECK IT OUT.

WE CAN PLUG SOMETHING IN. WE CAN NOT.

BECAUSE THAT -- I MEAN, IT IS ACTUAL REALITY.

MIGHT WANT TO GO TO THE PEOPLE AND SEE -- GO SEE WHAT IT IS.

411 NORTH 2ND STREET. WHAT ARE WE, SIX BLOCKS DOWN.

PRETTY EASY. I KNOW A LOT OF YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN HERE. REAL EASY TO GET A HOLD OF.

APPRECIATE THE TIME. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE THANK YOU FOR THE WHOLE MORNING YOU SPENT HERE.

>> THANKS A LOT. I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ANYONE ELSE? ANYONE ELSE?

>> HELLO. RUSSELL TAYLOR.

HAPPY MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. DAY.

I BELIEVE WE HAVE DIFFERENT SKIN BUT WE ARE BROTHER AND SISTER.

WE ARE BLOOD, BROTHERS AND SISTERS BY THE SPIRIT.

I THINK AMERICA NEEDS TO DEFUND THE POLICE BECAUSE AMERICA IS GIVING POLICE TOO MUCH WORK. WE ARE EXHAUSTED.

THEY ARE GIVING TASKS. THEY ARE NOT EVEN TRAINED TO HANDLE SUCH AS HELPING DOMESTIC ABUSE AND MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

ON TOP OF THAT, COPS DON'T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH ASSISTANCE FOR THEIR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES SO NOW THEN THINGS GO DOWN BETWEEN POLICE AND CITIZENS AND THEY ARE ANGRY AND THEY HAVE FEAR AND EXHAUSTION. CITIZENS ARE ANGRY BECAUSE THEY RUN INTO TOO MANY ANGRY, EXHAUSTED POLICE, AND AT THE WRONG TIME, NOW WHEN WE RUN INTO EACH OTHER, WE ARE BOTH ANGRY AND BOTH PARANOID AND TRAUMATIZED AND PEOPLE GET ANGRY WHEN THERE IS FEAR. DEFENDING THE POLICE MEANS DEFUNDING THE POLICE. AND THAT IS NOT TAKING ALL THEIR MONEY AWAY. I FEEL LIKE IT IS SPENDING SOME OF THE MONEY -- AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT TO MENTAL HEALTH WORKERS. I BELIEVE THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO SUCH AS BRINGING SOCIAL WORKERS TO BAKER ACT PEOPLE. I FEEL LIKE IT IS UNNECESSARY TO BRING COPS AT SOMETIMES TO BAKER ACT PEOPLE.

I THINK ALL IT DOES IS CAUSE CONFLICT.

AND, YEAH, SOME -- IT GIVES A LOT OF NEGATIVE ATTENTION TO CERTAIN AREAS AND GIVES PEOPLE AN UNNECESSARY AMOUNT OF WORK TO A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE. LET ME SEE.

I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE HOMELESS PEOPLE WOHIO ARE -- AR NOT -- AND HOMELESS AND DIS-I BELIEVED PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT --

[04:10:02]

OKAY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION? PLEASE COME FORWARD.

SEEING NO ONE. WE WILL MOVE ON.

[6. City Commission Boards and Committees Updates]

>> THE NEXT SECTION IS THE CITY COMMISSION BOARDS AND COMMITTEES

UPDATES. >>MAYOR HUDSON: IS THERE A

VOLUNTEER TO GO FIRST? >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, I WILL GO FIRST. NONE OF MY BOARDS HAVE MET AND IT IS THE NEW YEAR AND WE ARE STARTING TO GET INTO THAT DAY

DENSE. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: MY COMMENT WAS GOING TO BE THE SAME.

I WILL SAY WHAT COMMISSIONER JOHNSON JUST SAID.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: COMMISSIONER GAINES.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: SAME, MADAM MAYOR BUT THE DIRECTOR WANTED ME TO UPDATE THE ACTIVITIES BY THE LINCOLN PARK MAIN STREET. GREAT BLACKS IN MUSEUM.

AND LYNN CAN PARK SURVEY THEY DID FROM MARCH OF MAY OF 2022.

THE HIGHWAY PRE-- RECEPTION THAT WAS HELD IN -- IN JULY.

PRESIDENT DIGITAL HISTORICAL RECORDINGS AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER.

THE MEMORIAL CELEBRATION WATT OCTOBER 27.

THE FLAMING NIGHTS TOY DRIVE WAS DECEMBER 3, AND THE 7TH ANNUAL CHRISTMAS ON MORRIS CREEK WAS HELD ON DECEMBER 10.

ONLY OTHER BOARD THAT I WAS ON, THE TREASURE COAST LEAGUE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. LIKE I SAID I DID VOLUNTEER TO BE ON THE NOMINATING COMMITTEE. SO WE MET LAST FRIDAY AND WE NOMINATED PEOPLE TO GET INTO THE POSITIONS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE AWARE, MADAM MAYOR, THE LUNCHEON -- THE LUNCHEON WAS RESCHEDULED. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GOT THE NOTICE. IT WAS RESCHEDULED FOR A FURTHER TIME. THE ONLY THING I WANT TO BRING TO ATTENTION TO THIS BOARD IS THAT THAT ISSUE THAT WE DISCUSSED NOVEMBER, DECEMBER, BETWEEN INCUBATE AND LINCOLN PARK MAIN STREET HAS CAUSED TREMENDOUS ANGER, CONFUSION IN -- IN THAT AREA. SO I JUST WANTED EVERYBODY TO BE AWARE ON THIS BOARD. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON IS SHAKING HIS HEAD. IT'S -- IT'S OUT THERE.

AND I DON'T WANT ANYONE OF US SITTING UP HERE TO BE BLINDSIDED BY ANYTHING THAT YOU HEAR AND SOMEBODY COMMENT HERE.

I HEAR IT EVERY DAY. I DON'T THINK THAT ANYTHING WAS DONE WRONG. BUT THE PERCEPTION.

THE PERCEPTION IN THAT COMMUNITY IS THAT WE HELP ONE AND TURN OUR BACK ON ANOTHER. I KNOW THAT IS NOT TRUE, BUT I WANTED YOU GUYS TO BE AWARE -- AWARE OF THAT BECAUSE IT IS IN MY COMMUNITY AND IN IT. IF IT IS IN MY COMMUNITY, IT IS GOING TO SPREAD OVER TO DISTRICT TWO SOONER OR LATER GUYS.

AND WE WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

I WANTED TO BRING THAT UP. BUT COMMISSIONER BRODERICK, I THINK OUR FIRST RETIREMENT BOARD MEETING -- YOUR FIRST RETIREMENT BOARD MEETING IS THIS WEEK OR NEXT WEEK.

COMING UP. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: NEXT

WEEK. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: NEXT WEEK. SO BE PREPARED TO -- JUST LIKE YOU WERE IN CLASS TODAY. WE ARE IN CLASS TODAY IN CLASS TODAY. GIVING YOU A HEADS UP.

THE FIRST -- LIKE TODAY, LIKE WHAT IS GOING ON.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: A FLASHBACK TO 40 YEARS AGO.

I FAILED THAT CLASS. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: JUST GET READY. AND I THINK THAT'S -- MADAM MAYOR, I THINK THAT IS ALL RECORDING THAT BOARD.

I WANT TO SAY MAYBE NEXT WEEK -- AS SOON AS I LEAVE THAT RETIREMENT BOARD MEETING, HEADI AUGUSTINE OR SOMEWHERE FOR --

>>MAYOR HUDSON: FOR EMO, YOU BEAU BOTH --

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: FOLLOWING WEEK.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: RETIREMENT SCHOOL.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I AM TRYING TO REMEMBER WHAT I SIGNED UP. I AM GOING TO RETIREMENT SCHOOL

[04:15:03]

THAT IS MY REPORT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU,

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: NOT MUCH TO REPORT BUT TWO COMMITTEES, THE TPO -- IF YOU HAVE SEEN SOME ADVERTISEMENT, THE CITY HAS POST IT ALL IN CONJUNCTION WITH D.O.T. WILL HAVE A MEETING, PUBLIC INPUT WORKSHOP MEETING WITH THE RESURFACING OF ORANGE AVENUE.

I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT DATE. IT IS IN OUR CALENDARS AND COMING UP SOON AND I WANTED TO REFERENCE THAT.

I WILL LEAVE THAT ALONE. MAIN STREET FORT PIERCE, A SUCCESSFUL YEAR. WE ARE GOING TO POSTPONE AND BUMP THE REVERSE RAFFLE THE BIGGEST EVENT THAT MAIN STREET.

AND AT THE 500 EVENT CENTER AT THE OLD POST OFFICE.

EXCITING AND A GOOD EVENT. I HAD A CHANCE TO MEET WITH MISS WERTHERS AND ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS -- LOSING A LAST NAME. SHELBY.

MISS SHELBY. THAT'S OKAY.

IT IS GOOD. A GOOD CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

I DID GIVE ADVICE ON THE TWO MAIN STREETS COMING TOGETHER AND WORKING NOT TO A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT IN SOME WAY SINCE I WAS A SITTING MEMBER -- A SITTING MEMBER OF MAIN STREET FORT PIERCE AND MEETING WITH LINCOLN PARK MAIN STREET FOLKS TO DISCUSS WHAT IFS. HAS A LOT OF HISTORY WITH OPPORTUNITIES WITHIN RENTAL OR MOVES AROUND AND TRYING TO FIND YOU KNOW A PLACE TO LIVE. NO GOOD ANSWER OR SUCCESSFUL ANSWER TO $. I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE ONE. I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE WHERE, WHEN AND HOW ABOUT YOU YOU WILL COME UP WITH SOMETHING AT SOME POINT, BUT I DO WANT TO HELP IN MANY WAYS.

I CAN -- BETWEEN TWO AGENCIES AND THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE, WE GIVE $50,000 TO EACH ONE OF THEM THROUGH THE GRANT PROGRAM AND SUCCESSFULLY WITH COMMUNITY EFFORTS AND I AM HAPPY TO DO IT AND VERY SUCCESSFUL ON BOTH PARTS.

BUT FINDING THEM A PLACE TO LIVE.

I SHARED WITH -- WITH BOTH OF THEM SOME VISION THAT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, AT LEAST ON MY BEHALF AT 7TH STREET AND AVENUE D, THAT CORNER WITH COMMUNITY SERVICES WS LOCATED WITHIN THAT OLD FIREHOUSE.

THEY HAVE SINCE MOVED OVER TO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT ON BURNS COURT. I DON'T KNOW THE PURPOSE.

IT IS OWNED BY ST. LUCIE COUNTY. THE ORIGINAL INTENT JUST LIKE A FEW YEARS AGO LIKE OLD FORT PIERCE JAIL WAS TORN DOWN.

TO REVAMP AND REVITALIZE THAT INTERSECTION.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE GONE ANYWHERE WITH OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH ST. LUCIE COUNTY AS FAR AS STAFF LEVEL MR. MIMMS, MR. TIPTON AND MAYBE HELPING THEM WITH RFP AND RFQ PROCESSES TO REVITALIZE THAT CORNER. THAT WAS ASKED ABOUT FOR MAIN STREET FORT PIERCE OR LINCOLN PARK MAIN STREET.

A GOOD IDEA BUT THE CHALLENGE IS DOING IT WHEN IT IS AN OLDER BUILDING AND TRYING REVITALIZE AND MOVING IN, MOVING OUT.

AND NOT EVEN OWNED BY THE CITY. AND IT IS A CHALLENGE.

YOU GOT TO FIND THEM A PLACE TO LIVE, RIGHT.

AND THIS IS WHERE THEY ARE GOING WITH IT.

YOU ARE THE BOARD MEMBER. NO, IT'S OKAY.

IT IS PART OF OUR DISCUSSIONS UP HERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, NOT-FOR-PROFIT. THE RFP I EXPLAINED IN DETAIL.

MY PERSPECTIVE OF THE CITY'S PROCESS AND I THINK SOME -- I HOPE MY MESSAGE CONVEYED INFORMATION ON HOW THE CITY AND THE PROCUREMENT POLICIES OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA AND THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE OPERATE AND LEASES WERE GIVEN AND APPROVE A LEASE ONE YEAR LESS THAN AND APPEAR 30 YEAR LEASE.

I HOPE I SHARED SOME GOOD RELEVANT INFORMATION FROM MY SEAT, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. AT THE SAME TIME, THERE ARE THEY ARE A NONPROFIT AND WE CAN'T TREAT THEM ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN ANY OTHER NONPROFIT IN FORT PIERCE.

AND THAT IS THE HARDEST PART OF IT.

PARTNER AGENCIES. THEY ARE A PARTNER AGENCY BUT THEY ARE A NONPROFIT. SO THAT IS THE DIFFICULTY.

BUT, HEY, ALWAYS LOOKING -- I WANT TO YOU KNOW THAT I AM

[04:20:01]

AND I WILL CHATTER IT AND SHARE IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS.

THERE IS GOOD TO COME. SOMETHING GOOD TO COME.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE PART OF WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, APPROVING THE RFP OR RFQ CAUSED SOME RIFT. I ASKED THE QUESTION A BOARD MEMBER THAT OVERLAPS, AND SOME OVERLAP ON BOTH BOARD.

DO YOU KNOW OF ONE? >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I DON'T KNOW OF ONE, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, BUT THE ONLY TIME I RECUSED MYSELF FROM THE VOTE, BECAUSE I DON'T SIT ON THE OTHER BOARD, BUT I WORK VERY, VERY CLOSELY.

AND STEP BACK. BUT TALKING TO MADAM ATTORNEY AND I UNDERSTAND THE LAW AND MOVING FORWARD, I CAN GO FO

FORWARD. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. BUT ANYWAY, THERE IS OPPORTUNITY THERE. WE WILL FIND SOMETHING AND I WILL HAVE HOPE AND I AM ENCOURAGED THAT THERE IS SOMETHING OUT THERE. SO OUTSIDE OF THAT, NO MORE THAT I NEED TO REPORT ON BECAUSE MEETINGS ARE COMING.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: JUST TO FOLLOW UP WITH COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, 30 SECONDS OR LESS. I DID MEET WITH FOUR OF THE FIVE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AND WE HAD GREAT DISCUSSIONS AND MEANT TO TELL YOU MR. MANAGER, CITY MANAGER, MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME TO REACH OUT BECAUSE OF THE FOUR I SPOKE TO, THEY ARE READY AND WILLING TO NOW TO HEAR US AND TALK TO US AND SIT DOWN WITH US AND THE FEEDBACK I GOT.

THEY WERE KIND OF SHOCKED THAT. I AM JUST SAYING IT.

THEY THOUGHT WE WERE MAD AT THEM.

I AM TELLING WHAT YOU I HEARD. SOMEWHERE -- SOMEWHERE THERE HAS BEEN A DISCONNECT AND WE NEED SAY LET'S COME TO MEET.

AND THEY -- FROM THE FOUR I SPOKE TO, THEY WANTED -- THIS IS HOW I WANT TO WORK WITH THE CITY COMMISSION FOR FORT PIERCE.

THAT IS WHAT I WAS TOLD. IT MIGHT BE A PERFECT TIME FOR THAT LITTLE AREA YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT TO SIT DOWN AND CONTACT THEM TO SEE -- BECAUSE I ALSO THINK THAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THAT AREA. THEY ARE ALREADY LOOKING AT THAT AREA 7TH STREET AND THROUGH THOSE BUILDINGS.

NOW WILL BE THE PERFECT TIME TO REACH OUT THE OLIVE BRANCH TO SAY YOU KNOW, WE ARE FOLLOWING WORK WITH YOU GUYS.

AND THE LAST THING, MADAM MAYOR AND I WENT TO MR. MURPHY ON ORANGE AVENUE CORRIDOR. MURPHY.

THAT WE TOOK A VISIT AND HAD ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN BUSINESSES ON ORANGE AVENUE CORRIDOR AND STOPPED IN TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO, AND A LOT OF BUSINESSES GOT THE E-MAILS BUT DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE E-MAILS WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO AND I GUESS THEY DIDN'T COME TO THE MEETINGS BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE TROUBLE. I AM JUST BEING HONEST WITH YOU.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I AM TRYING TO SAY THAT WE WANT TO BENEFIT EVERYBODY AND IF YOU ARE NOT AT THE MEETINGS -- WE NEED YOUR INPUT. WE TALKED TO SIX OR SEVEN BUSINESS OWNERS AND THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA.

WHAT I AM GOING TO DO IS TRY TO -- I DID NOT KNOW -- MAYBE THIS IS MY FAULT, BUT JUST DRIVING DOWN ORANGE AVENUE, I DID NOT KNOW HOW MANY DIFFERENT CHURCHES WITH JUST ORANGE AVENUE.

IF YOU DON'T REALLY STOP. I AM GOING TO BE IN DISTRICT ONE AND LET THEM KNOW THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON AND THIS IS WHAT WITHER TRYING TO DO AND GO FROM THERE.

I DID DO THAT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT. THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT. I AM GOING TO BE QUICK BECAUSE WE HAVE ANOTHER MEETING STARTING HERE.

I, TOO, HAVE NO REPORTS ON MY COMMITTEES.

BUT WE HAVE A PARADE COMING UP, IS THAT RIGHT? MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. PARDON RAID ON MONDAY 16.

IS THAT RIGHT? >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: ONE

WEEK. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE HAVE GOTTEN OUR INSTRUCTIONS WHERE WE WILL MEET AND IF WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THOSE INSTRUCTIONS. SO WE ARE GOING TO HAVE MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. CELEBRATIONS SO HAPPY BEFORE WE MEET -- NEXT MEET. AND THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER ACTIVITIES AS USUAL LEADING UP TO IT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: CANDLELIGHT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SOMETHING OVER THE WEEKEND THAT YOU WERE AT.

[04:25:01]

>> THE YOUTH SYMPOSIUM. >>MAYOR HUDSON: I GOT THE INFORMATION A LITTLE LATE. I WILL BE AT THE WREATH LAYING

CEREMONY. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: RIGHT, SATURDAY. WREATH LAYING ON SATURDAY.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WHAT IS TODAY? OKAY, SATURDAY.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: WORSHIP AT FRIENDSHIP.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: BUT THERE IS ALSO A HISTORY FESTIVAL THIS COMING SATURDAY DOWNTOWN FORT PIERCE.

THEY ARE CLOSING OFF THE -- THE STREET IN FRONT OF THE SUNRISE THEATRE. FREE PRESENTATIONS AT THE SUNRISE THEATRE AND GOING TO BE A GREAT HISTORY FESTIVAL EVENT.

A LOT OF VENDORS AND PEOPLE INTERESTED IN HISTORY.

IT IS FREE AND ANYBODY CAN COME. IF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE PRESENTATIONS IN THE SUNRISE, THEY ARE FREE, BUT YOU HAVE TO SIGN UP. SIGN UP AHEAD OF TIME.

WITH THAT -- YES, SIR. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: DBA.

A CAR ENTHUSIAST. CLASSIC CARS, MODERN CARS.

SEE IT MR. SPOT COMES. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WHEN IS THAT.

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: THURSDAY NIGHT.

THE NEW THING COMING. >>MAYOR HUDSON: NOTHING ELSE FOR THE GOOD OF THE

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.