[a. Quasi-Judicial Hearing - Review and approval of an application for a Final Plat Review submitted by applicant Regina Karner of Karner Surveying Inc., to subdivide 1 parcel into 4 platted lots at 1602 Surfside Drive, more specifically located at Parcel ID: 2412-501-0132-000-3.]

COMMISSIONER C JOHNSON . COMMISSIONER JEH JOHNSON. MAYOR HUDSON. NOW WE WILL MOVE ON TO PUBLIC HEARINGS. WE HAVE A QUASIJUDICIAL HEARING WITH THE REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A FINAL PLAT REVIEW SUBMITTED BY APPLICANT REGINA CARTER OF CARTER SURVEYING TO SUBDIVIDE ONE PARCEL INTO FOUR PLATTED LOTS AT 1602 SURFSIDE DRIVE .

>> THIS IS THE ONLY QUASIJUDICIAL HEARING TONIGHT.

PLEASE READ THE GUIDELINES FOR THIS HEARING.

>> THE CITY COMMISSION SERVES BOTH THE LEGISLATIVE AND QUASIJUDICIAL ROLE. WHEN ACTIN AS A BODY THE COMMISSION AND GAUGES AND LAWMAKING ACTIVITY B PASSING LAWS AND ESTABLISHING POLICIES. WHEN ACTING AS A QUASIJUDICIAL BODY THEY APPLY LAWS AND ARE HELD TO STRICTER STANDARDS. QUASIJUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS ARE LESS FORMAL THA THE NORMAL -- EXCUSE ME, QUASIJUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS ARE LESS FORMAL THAN PROCEEDINGS BEFORE CIRCUIT COURT BUT MORE FORMAL THAN THE NORMAL

COMMISSION MEETING. >> IT'S ALL RIGHT.

>> DECISIONS MUST BE MADE BASED ON SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

THEREFORE, COMMISSIONERS HAVE A DUTY TO CONDUCT THE PROCEEDINGS MORE LIKE JUDGES THAN LEGISLATORS. THAT IS WHY THE COMMISSION HAS ESTABLISHED THE UNIFORM PROCEDURES THAT WILL BE FOLLOWED THIS EVENING. NO ONE SHOULD APPROACH ANY MEMBER OF THE CITY COMMISSION OR CITY CLERK DURING THE HEARING. IF DOCUMENTS ARE TO BE GIVEN TO TH CITY CLERK THESE PROVIDE THEM TO THE SERGEANT AT ARMS WHO IS ONE OF THE POLICE OFFICERS IN

THE CHAMBER. >> THANK YOU. HAS THE ADVERTISING BEEN MET FOR THIS ITEM?

>> YES. >> WOULD YOU ASK COMMISSIONERS ABOUT EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS?

>> COMMISSIONER GAINES? COMMISSIONER C JOHNSON? COMMISSIONER JEH JOHNSON? MAYO HUDSON? WILL ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM PLEASE STAND AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND ? DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? THANK YOU.

>> PROCEED. >> COMMISSIONERS, THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR A FINAL PLAT FO SURFSIDE MULTIFAMILY. THE APPLICANT IS REGINA CARTER, PS OF CARTER SURVEYING INC. THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE SURFSIDE LAND LLC AND THE PARTS I.D. IS 2412 50101320003. IN SUMMARY, THIS IS A REQUEST FOR REVIEW OF AN APPLICATION FOR A FINAL PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE ONE PARCEL INTO FOUR PLATTED MULTIFAMILY PLOTS. THIS IS THE AERIAL MAP OF THE PARCEL THAT IS 0.54 GIVE OR TAKE ACRES. THE FUTURE LAND US IS HUDSON ISLAND RESIDENTIAL. THE ZONING IS MEDIUM DANCING AR FOR A PERIOD THIS IS THE PLAT IN QUESTION.. THIS IS A MORAL

[00:30:09]

DETAILED LOOK OF THE SAID PLAT STAFF RECOMMENDATION ONE CONDITION THAT THE APPLICANT WILL SUPPLY TO MYLARS FOR APPROPRIATE SIGNATURES AND THE PLAT IS RECORDED WITH CDC COUNT IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATUTE 177 111. CITY COMMISSION TO ACTION TODAY FOR THE FINAL PLAT ARE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED FINAL PLAT WITH ONE CONDITION WHICH IS STAFF RECOMMENDATION. YOU CAN RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE FINAL PLAT WITH ALTERNATIVE CONDITION OR YOU CAN RECOMMEND DISAPPROVA OF THE PROPOSED FINAL PLAT. THANK YOU.

>> QUESTIONS? >> IF MEMORY SERVES ME RIGHT, THIS PROPERTY CAME THROUGH THE PLANNING PROCESS A COUPLE YEARS BACK AND WAS SUBSEQUENTLY APPROVED FOR A FOUR UNIT TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT. IT MIGHT'VE BEEN GARDEN STYLE. I' NOT EXACTLY SURE. CAN YOU GIVE ME HOW ALL THAT CONNECTS HERE?

>> I'M NOT SURE OF ANY OF THE PROPOSALS FOR THIS LAND UNTIL THIS RECENT ONE THAT WAS PUT IN FOR DECEMBER.

>> WHAT HAPPENED PREVIOUSLY HAS ZERO EFFECT ON THIS? IT MEETS ALL THE LANDMASS REQUIREMENTS FOR A FOUR UNIT DEVELOPMENT?

>> YES. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE A QUESTION. I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO ANSWER , BUT I WANT TO MAKE COMMENT. AS WE GET MORE AND MORE CONCERNED ABOUT RESILIENCE AND BUILDING ALONG THE COASTAL LINES WE CHANGED THE PROCESS BEFORE. REFRESH MY MEMORY HOW WE DID THAT AND HOW WE ARE ASSURING WE ARE NOT CONTRIBUTIN TO MORE FLOODING ON THE COASTLINES? CAN YOU HELP ME WITH THAT?

>> I KNOW THE CITY BEFORE MY TIME HERE REMOVED THE CONDITIONAL USE TO BUILD WITHI THAT COASTAL PROTECTION LINE.

THAT'S BEEN DEALT WITH NOW MOR BY BUILDING. WHEN A BUILDING PERMIT COMES IN THEY HAVE TO MEET CERTAIN FEMA AND OTHER

FLOOD REQUIREMENTS. >> IT'S NOT THAT WE GAVE IT UP.

IT'S JUST A SHIFT TO SOMEBODY ELSE. IS THAT CORRECT? I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE NOT CONTRIBUTING MORE TO DANGERS FOR FLOODING. THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT WILL BE DEALING WITH THAT? ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. I'D LIKE TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING WITH TH APPLICANT. PLEASE COME FORWARD.

DAUGHTER. >> YOU WERE SWORN IN. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? THANK YOU. YOU WANTED TO SAY

ANYTHING TO US? >> REGINA KARNER COULDN'T MAK THE MEETING TONIGHT . I WAS ASKED TO STAND IN. I WAS THE ENGINEER ON THE PROJECT. IT WAS ACCRUED AS A QUAD PLEX. PART OF THE CONDITION FOR BUILDING ISSUANCE IS THAT THE PROPERTY GETS FORMALLY PLATTED INTO THE FOUR SEPARATE LOTS THAT ARE SHOWN ON THE PLAT TONIGHT. THIS IS A REQUIREMENT IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE BUILDING.

>> ANY QUESTIONS OF THIS APPLICANT?

>> THIS GOES BACK TO THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION THAT CAME UP A COUPLE YEARS BACK. IT'S AL CONNECTED? I THINK THE COMMISSION APPROVED THAT AS WELL. IT WAS APPROVED BY PLANNING AND THE COMMISSION. THIS IS JUST A UNDERLINE REQUIREMENT TO MOVE FORWARD WIT THAT PLAN?

>> RIGHT. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD? ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE PLEASE COME FORWARD . SEEING NO ONE. I CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARIN AND ENTERTAINING MOTION.

>> I MOVED TO APPROVE. >> COMMISSIONER BRODERICK.

COMMISSIONER GAINES. COMMISSIONER C JOHNSON.

COMMISSIONER J JOHNSON. MAYOR HUDSON.

>> SORRY. THE CONDITION. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOUR

GOOD. >> I NEVER HAD A CONDITION.

[b. Legislative Hearing - Ordinance 23-027 - Review and approval of an ordinance by the City Commission of the City of Fort Pierce, Florida; Rezoning the property generally located at or near 4483 south 25th street, from PD, Planned Development Zone to R-1, Single-Family Low Density Zone; Subject Property: Parcel ID: 2325-111-0001-000-2. SECOND READING]

>> I APPRECIATE THAT. >> THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ORDINANCE NUMBER 23-027 . AN ORDINANCE BY THE CITY COMMISSIO OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA. REZONING THE PROPERTY GENERALLY LOCATED AT OR NEAR 4483 SOUTH 25TH STREET, FROM PLANNED DEVELOPMENT ZONE TO OUR ONE SINGLE-FAMILY LOW DENSITY ZONE PROVIDING FOR A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE PROVIDING

[00:35:08]

FOR APPEAL OR ORDINANCE PARTS THEREOF IN CONFLICT HEREWITH AN PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE THIS IS THE SECOND READING.

>> ANYONE INTERESTED IN ADDRESSING THE COMMISSION ON THIS ISSUE PLEASE COME FORWARD. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARIN

AND ENTERTAIN A MOTION. >> MOVE FOR THE APPROVAL.

>> COMMISSIONER BRODERICK. COMMISSIONER GAINES.

[c. Legislative Hearing - Ordinance 23-028: Review and approval of an ordinance extending the territorial limits of the City of Fort Pierce, Florida, to include one (1) parcel at or near approximately 750 feet east of the Southeast Corner of South US Highway 1 and Dixieland Drive in Fort Pierce, Florida. The parcel ID is 2427-801-0085-000-5. SECOND READING]

COMMISSIONER C JOHNSON. COMMISSIONER J JOHNSON. MAYOR HUDSON. THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ORDINANCE 23-028 . A ORDINANCE EXTENDING THE TERRITORIAL LIMITS OF FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA TO INCLUDE ONE PARCEL AT OR NEAR APPROXIMATELY 750 FEET EAST OF THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF SOUTH U.S. HIGHWAY 1 AND THE LAND DRIVE IN FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA. IT IS SHOWN ON EXHIBIT A. DIRECTING THE ST. LUCIE COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER TO ASSESS SAID PROPERTY AND PLACE IT ON THE CITY'S TAX ROLL AS OF JANUARY 1ST, 2024 DIRECTING THE ST. LUCIE COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR TO COLLECT TAXES ON THE HEREIN DESCRIBED POVERT ESTABLISHING THE ZONING DECLINATION, ESTABLISHING THE LAND-USE DESIGNATION, DIRECTING FILING OF THE ORDINANCE WOULD THE CLERK OF THE COURT, THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR OFFICE OF ST. LUCIE COUNTY, DIRECTING REVISION OF THE ARTICLE TO BE FILED WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND SUBMITTED TO THE OFFICE OF ECONOMIC AND DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH, PROVIDING FOR A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE, RE-APPEALING ALL ORDINANCES OR PARTS THEREOF AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. THIS IS THE

SECOND READING. >> ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS TH COMMISSION ON THIS ISSUE PLEASE COME FORWARD. SEEING NO ONE. I CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND ENTERTAINING MOTION.

>> COMMISSIONER BRODERICK. COMMISSIONER GAINES.

COMMISSIONER C JOHNSON. COMMISSIONER J JOHNSON. MAYOR

[d. Legislative Hearing - Ordinance 23-029 Amending Chapter 103, Article V, Amending Section 103-203 Regulation of Stormwater Run-off. SECOND READING]

HUDSON. THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ORDINANCE 23-029 AND ORDINANCE BY THE CITY COMMISSIO OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA AMENDING CHAPTER 103, ARTICLE FIVE, AMENDING SECTION 103 TO 203 RELATION OF STORMWATER RUNOFF. REQUIRED SLOPE TO PROVIDE FOR ENGINEERED DRAINAGE PLAN REQUIREMENTS WRITING FOR A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE, FEELING ALL ORDINANCES ARE PART OF ORDINANCES IN HERE WITH AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. THIS IS THE SECOND READING.

>> ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE PLEASE COME FORWARD.

I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARIN AND ENTERTAIN DISCUSSION OR

EMOTION. >> LAST TIME WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM. I FEE THAT WE EITHER NEED TO GET MORE INFORMATION OR RESEARCH. I HAD CHANCE TO MEET WITH MR. THOMAS, OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL, ABOUT THIS ITEM. I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS MISSING FROM THE ORDINANCE SPECIFICALLY.

REGARDING WHO CAN CERTIFY A DRAINAGE PLAN ON A SINGLE-FAMILY PROPERTY. I ALSO BELIEVE THERE PARTS OF THE ORDINANCE THAT IS MISSING INFORMATION SUCH AS ACCESSORY STRUCTURES . IF YOU WERE TO POU A CONCRETE SLAB YOU HAVE TO GET AN ENGINEER TO CERTIFY IT AS A WAY IT READS. I BELIEVE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CLASSIFICATIONS WITHIN THE STATE OF FLORIDA LICENSING THE DB PR. WHATEVER IT MAY BE THAT CAN PERFORM CALCULATIONS THAT SHOW DRAINAGE PLANS. OTHER CERTIFIED PROFESSIONALS. IN ADDITION TO THAT IT DIDN'T INCLUDE SPECIFICALLY THE STRUCTURE WHIC MEANS YOU CAN HAVE A 2 X 2 PAD WHICH REQUIRES AN ENGINEER TO CERTIFY STORMWATER BUT YOU CAN HAVE A 50 BY 100 SHED BUILT ON THE BUILDING WITHOUT THE CERTIFICATION OF A DRAINAGE PLAN. MASSIVE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. EITHER WE NEE TO PROVIDE SOME MORE INFORMATIO OR WE NEED TO MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS. I'VE ALSO REACHED OUT TO THE BUILDERS ASSOCIATIO FOR SOME COMMENTS . I HAVEN'T HAD ANY FOLLOW-UP CONVERSATION. MAYBE STAFF HAS HAD THAT. I DON'T WANT TO MAKE A MISTAKE. I'M OKAY WITH AMPLIFYING OR AMENDING SUCH ORDINANCES BUT DON'T FEEL LIKE I CAN SUPPORT I THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN JUST LIKE DIDN'T SUPPORT IT LAST TIME.

THAT'S WHERE I AM. >> SO , YOU DO SUPPORT PROTECTING NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES FROM WATER RUNOFF?

KNOW YOU DO. >> ABSOLUTELY.

>> WE HAVE TOGETHER SOME HAIR.

>> AT SOME POINT -- THAT'S TH CHALLENGE. I DO REALIZE THAT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT RECEIVE A LOT OF PHONE CALLS. WHEN SOMETHING IS CHANGING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THERE A PHONE CALL BEING MADE. THERE ARE CHALLENGES WITH NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL THE WATER THAT COMES IN MY YARD NOW? YOU KNOW, WE HAD SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS ON THE LEGAL PERSPECTIVE. AT SOME POINT IT BECOMES CIVIL AND NOT

[00:40:02]

WHERE THE CITY HAS TO INTERJECT ITS AUTHORITY ROLE, LAW, WHATEVER, BECAUSE IF A NEIGHBO IS AFFECTING ANOTHER NEIGHBOR THAT IS WHAT IT IS. IT STANDS AS THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AS I SAID IN THE SENTENCE. I THINK THERE ARE CAUSES AND EFFECTS THAT THE CITY SHOULD LOOK INTO AND EVALUATE. THE OTHER CHALLENGE WITHIN THE ENTIRE PROCESS IS MY EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER JURISDICTIONS AND OTHER DEPARTMENTS WITHIN THE MUNICIPALITY OR COUNTY SERVICE DEPARTMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW MUCH AND WHAT KIND OF ROLE THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT WOULD PLAY IN DRAINAGE PLANS AND CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY. OBVIOUSLY THEY PLAY A MAJOR ROL IN THAT PART OF IT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LAND DEVELOPMENT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PARCELS OF VARIOUS SIZES. I UNDERSTAND WHERE IT'S COMING FROM BUT IT NEEDS A LOT OF WORK. YES, I'M

INTERESTED IN PROTECTING. >> I KNOW ONE PARTICULAR PROPERTY THAT IS AT CONSTANT THREAT . THIS PROPERTY AND THE HOUSE BUILT ON IT WAS BUILT IN THE 50S OR 60S AND THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES ARE ALL MUCH HIGHER. WHETHER THEY BELIEVE THAT THE EFFECTS OF TH HIGHER PROPERTIES ARE AFFECTIN FLOODING THEIR PROPERTY. I THINK WHAT I REMEMBER MR. THOMAS SAYING IS HE WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE ENGINEER RESPONSIBL FOR MAKING SURE THAT EACH PROPERTY TAKES CARE OF ITS OWN RUNOFF. MAYBE WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IS IF WE HAVE A BRAND-NEW HOUSE BUILT IT COULD BE AN ENGINEER BEING RESPONSIBL BUT OTHER THINGS COULD BE SPELLED OUT IN THE ORDINANCE?

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? >> A NEW CONSTRUCTION -- A NEW RESIDENCE BEING CONSTRUCTED IS DIFFERENT CONVERSATION THAN AN EXISTING RESIDENCE WITH EXPANSIONS OR ADDITIONS BUILT

ONTO IT. >> IN MANY CASES THERE WILL BE APPLICATIONS FOR BUILDING PERMITS. MR. THOMAS IS IN THE ROOM. THERE ARE MANY CASES WHERE A CERTIFIED PROFESSIONAL OF SOME SORT IS GOING TO GIVE A DETAILED PLAN. THEY WILL ENGINEER AND THERE WILL BE AN ARCHITECT INVOLVED. SURVEYORS ARE INVOLVED. IT'S VERY LIMITING THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN TODAY. I WILL GIVE THE EXAMPLE OF WHAT I WAS FEARFUL OF BEFORE IF WE HAVE A SMALL PAD PORT ALONG WITH THE SHED APPLICATION YOU NOW HAVE TO GET AN ENGINEER INVOLVED. THAT IS A MONUMENTAL TASK FOR A PROFESSIONAL IN THE INDUSTRY , WHICH IS MYSELF. I HAVE TO CALL AN ENGINEER. THAT' OKAY. WHEN I'M COMING AS A RESIDENT AND I HAVE TO CALL AN ENGINEER FOR A PLAN JUST SO I CAN PUT A SHED IN MY PROPERTY I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. ARE W GOING TO NOW GIVE A LIST OF RECOMMENDATIONS? ESTHER MALLER IS IN THE OFFICE. HE'S A PLANNING PROFESSIONAL. IS HE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC? HOW DO WE GET THAT TO THE PUBLIC WERE YOU HAVE TO CALL ANOTHER ENGINEER ON THE PHONE AND SAY WHAT IS YOUR PRICE AND HOW FAST CAN YOU DO THIS? I JUST NEED A SHED.

>> COMMISSIONERS? >> I WOULD FOLLOW-UP ON COMMISSIONER JOHNSON'S COMMENTARY. I AGREE WITH YOUR ANALYSIS IN ENTIRETY. I FULLY SUPPORT DEALING WITH STORMWATER RUNOFF. WE HAVE A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. I WANTED TO PUT POOL IN. NONE OF THIS WAS REQUIRED. HIS NEIGHBORS ALSO ROUNDING ON ALL THREE SIDES AR NOW THE BENEFICIARIES OF ALL OF HIS RUNOFF WHICH HAS CAUSED QUITE A FRICTION POINT ESPECIALLY OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS WITH ALL THE RAIN. TH POINT THAT COMMISSIONER JOHNSON IS MAKING AND I REINFORCED THI TO SAY LET'S SAY I'M GOING TO PUT IN A SHED. CROSS THAT PROJECT TO SAY IT'S 20 OR $25,000 TO ACCOMPLISH. YOU COUL BE SPENDING 10% OF THAT AMOUNT ON AN ENGINEER DRAWING. THAT'S HOW EXPENSIVE THE SERVICES ARE.

PLUS THE TIME DELAYS THAT ARE INVOLVED. I THINK WHAT COMMISSIONER JOHNSON IS GETTING AT IS THE SOLUTION IS CORRECT.

HOW WE GET TO THAT SOLUTION IS THE PROBLEM. CONTROLLING THE COST AND INEVITABLE TIME DELAY IS -- OR A CONCRETE PAD FOR YOUR BARBECUE GRILL IS GOING T BE COMPLICATED AND COSTLY. I

[00:45:03]

THINK THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET THERE AND I AGREE WITH THE STATEMENT OF DOING A DEEPE AND SEE WHAT OTHER POTENTIAL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES CAN PROVIDE THE TYPE OF RELIEF WE ARE GOING TO NEED HERE TO KEEP THE COST FACTOR DOWN KEEP THE TIMELINES TIGHTER , AND JUST MAKE THIS AN EASIER PROCESS.

THE THOUGHTS ON HIRING AN ENGINEER TO GET A WATER RUNOFF PLAN TO ME IS A BIT MUCH. I AGREE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FURTHER DETAIL AND FURTHER EXPANSION ON THIS THEME. I WOULD ULTIMATELY LIKE TO COME T THE END GOAL WHICH IS TO PREVEN THE TYPES OF PROBLEMS I NEIGHBORS ARE SUFFERING THROUGH AND I'M SURE MANY OTHERS. THAT'S WHY IT WAS BROUGHT FORWARD TO BEGIN WITH IS TO AVOID THAT WHOLE CAVALCADE OF ISSUES BECAUSE IT'S NOT BEING DEALT WITH CORRECTLY. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHERE WE CAN TAKE THIS TO SIMPLIFY IT. I'M NOT

SURE WHAT THE SOLUTIONS ARE. >> PERHAPS OTHER JURISDICTIONS

HAVE DEALT WITH IT? >> YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE O LAND COVERAGE IMPERVIOUS VERSU PERVIOUS. ALL THOSE FORMULATION COME INTO PLAY. IF YOU'RE UNDER CERTAIN THRESHOLDS OR MAYBE YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THIS IF YOUR ABOVE SHIRT AND THRESHOLDS ARE MAYBE YOU DO. I CONSIDER NEW CONSTRUCTION TO BE A WHOLE DIFFERENT SCENARIO. MOST OF TH AREAS IMPACTED BY THIS ARE POTENTIALLY OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT BUILT UP.

MY NEIGHBORHOOD IS SPECIFICALLY ONE OF THOSE. MANY OF THOSE WER BUILT IN THE 60S SO THEY ARE BASICALLY ON STORMWATER PROBLEMS CONTINUOUSLY. I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN NAVIGATE A BETTER COURSE TO MAKE THIS FROM THE CONSUMER SIDE A LITTLE BIT LESS THORNY . I THINK WE CAN GE THERE. IT'S ABOVE MY PAY GRADE TO FIGURE OUT HOW. WE HAVE THE EXPERT RIGHT HERE.

>> COMMISSIONER GAINS? >> I'VE HEARD MY TWO COMMISSIONERS. I'M TRYING TO G BACK TO OUR LAST MEETING ABOUT THIS . I THINK WE ARE CAUGHT UP ON CERTIFIED ENGINEER. IF CAN REMEMBER RIGHT FROM READING AND WHAT HE TESTIFIED TO LAST

TIME . >> WOULD WE LIKE MR. THOMAS TO

COME FORWARD? IS THAT OKAY? >> AS PAUL COMES UP AND WE TALK ABOUT THIS I HAD A VERY DETAILED CONVERSATION WITH COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. BEING AN ENGINEER MYSELF THERE IS A COST . THERE IS A COST TO ANYONE THAT HIRES A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER OR PROFESSIONAL SURVEYOR THAT CAN DEFINITELY BUMP UP THE COST FOR A MOM AND POP THAT JUST WANTS TO PUT A SHED ON THE PROPERTY. I BELIEVE MR. THOMAS HAS SOME POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVES BUT THE PRIMARY REASON WE ARE HERE TODAY IS TO PROTECT EXISTING HOMEOWNERS. A WE ARE DOING IT RIGHT NOW WE AR SEEING HOMES, IN AT A BASE FLOO ELEVATION THAT IS MUCH HIGHER AND IT IS THROWING STORM WATER ONTO THEIR PROPERTY. WE WANT T PROTECT OUR RESIDENTS READ NOW. WE WILL DETERMINE WHAT IT MEANS TO GET THERE. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW BUT IF WE NEED TO DEVISE THIS ORDINANCE AND COME BACK TO YOU THAT'S WHA WE WILL DO. WE CAN KICK SOME IDEAS AROUND TODAY.

>> IN ADDITION TO THE DISCUSSIO AT HAND THERE WERE A FEW QUESTIONS THAT YOU ALL PRESENTED. I JUST DID A THREE PAGE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION T GIVE THE ANSWER TO THOSE QUESTIONS. FROM 2021 UNTIL THE PRESENT WHEN THE ORDINANCE WAS FIRST MADE THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY 100 ENGINEER DRAINAGE PLANS THAT WERE PROCESSED BY THE CITY. THAT WOULD TYPICALLY BE FOR POOLS AND FOR SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES THA WEREN'T PART OF PLANNED DEVELOPMENTS. IF YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT THOSE NUMBERS WE AR TALKING ABOUT TWO PER MONTH I

WHAT IT AVERAGES OUT TO. >> THE DEVELOPMENT WOULD TAKE CARE OF THAT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

>> THIS WOULD BE ON A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME.

>> YOU SAID IT'S NOT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT. WHEN YOU HAVE A DEVELOPMENT DO THEY HAVE THE PLAN?

>> RIGHT. THEY PLAN IT OUT BEFORE THEY PUT THE HOUSES DOWN THIS WOULD JUST BE FOR AN INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNER WHO WAS GOING TO PUT IN ADDITION , POOL OR BUILD A BRAND-NEW

[00:50:01]

SINGLE-FAMILY HOME. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A TREMENDOUS NUMBER OF PROPERTIES IN THE CITY. IN THE SAME TIMEFRAME THERE WERE A TOTAL OF 472 SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES BUILT THROUGHOUT THE CITY IN THE SAME TWO-YEAR PERIOD . WE ARE SEEING 40 WERE POOLS FOR SURE. WE'RE LOOKING AT APPROXIMATELY MAYBE 60 THAT WERE HOMES THAT WERE BUILT IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WEREN'T PART OF PLAN DEVELOPMEN LIKE AVALON OR WHATEVER.

THAT'S THE FIRST THING . WE WAN TO GET SOME SCALING OR SCOPE THERE. AS FAR AS THE COST FOR ENGINEER DRAINAGE PLANS WE REACHED OUT TO FIVE DIFFERENT ENGINEERING FIRMS WHO HAD DONE THEM IN THE CITY. THE TYPICAL RANGE IS FROM $250 TO 2500. AT THAT TOP RANGE THAT ENCOMPASSES VERY COMPLEX SITUATIONS IN SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREAS. NEXT SLIDE -- ST. LUCIE COUNT HAS A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU PRESENT A STORMWATER DRAINAGE PLAN. IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT ENGINEERED OR IF YOU WANT TO D THAT INDIVIDUALLY THEY HAVE DESIGNED STANDARDS . THERE ARE SEVERAL PAGES OF DESIGN STANDARDS THAT ALMOST HAVE TO B AN ENGINEER OR SURVEYOR TO BE ABLE TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THEM. IT'S VERY COMPLICATED. THE ADVANTAGE OF HAVING SOME TYPE OF CERTIFIED OR ENGINEERED DRAINAGE PLAN IS THAT YOUR DEPARTMENT DOESN'T HAVE TO PRODUCE THE STANDARDS. THE PROFESSIONAL DOES IT HIMSELF AND HE GIVES YOU THE END PRODUC WITHOUT YOUR DEPARTMENT OR ANYONE ELSE TRYING TO SIT DOWN AND SAY CHECK THIS OR CHECK THAT. IT PUTS THE BURDEN ON THE OWNER. IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY BUT IT SIMPLIFIE THE PROCESS TO SOME DEGREE FOR THE CITY. PORT ST. LUCIE -- IN NINE OF THEIR COMMUNITIES NOT EVERY ONE OF THEM BUT NINE SPECIFIC COMMUNITIES REQUIRE DRAINAGE PLANS TO BE SIGNED AND SEALED. THE CONCEPT OF THEM BEING SIGNED AND SEALED IS NOT FOREIGN CONCEPT. PART ST. LUCIE DOES IT. ELEVATIONS ARE REQUIRED. THOSE ARE GOING TO B -- IF YOU HAVE A SURVEY OR WHATNOT HE IS GOING TO SIGN IT OR SEAL IT . NOT NECESSARILY AN ENGINEER HAS TO DO IT BUT SOMEONE WITH THE ABILITY TO SIG SOMETHING AND BE RESPONSIBLE I THAT WAY. INTERESTINGLY, A QUICK SEARCH REVEALED THAT AT LEAST SEVEN OTHER COMMUNITIES REQUIRED IN ENGINEERED DRAINAGE PLAN WHICH IS WHAT WE WERE SPECIFICALLY SAYING IT NEEDED T BE HANDLED BY AN ENGINEER.

THAT'S MALABAR, ORANGE COUNTY, PALM BEACH COUNTY, SARASOTA AN SEMINOLE COUNTY. ONE OF THE ENGINEERS WE SPOKE TO WAS SAYIN THAT MANY COMMUNITIES ARE REALL GOING MORE TOWARDS HAVING AN ENGINEERED VINTAGE PLAN WHERE THEY SIGN AND SEAL IT AND HE BECOMES A RESPONSIBLE PARTY. IT REALLY DOES RESOLVE THE ISSUES WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS A PROFESSIONAL THEY ACTUALLY DO THE CALCULATIONS COME WITH A CHECK THE CALCULATIONS AND THEY BECOME THE RESPONSIBLE PARTY. ULTIMATELY YOU REALLY AVOID TH CONFLICTS WITH THE NEIGHBORS AFTER THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED.

DRAINAGE PLANS ARE REVIEWED IN MOST JURISDICTIONS NOT IN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT BUT IN THE ENGINEERING OR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. THAT'S JUST A FACT WE FOUND OUT. THESE ARE SOME O THE ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS. IF WE ARE SAYING THIS IS A LITTLE BIT PRECARIOUS SOME OF THE ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS THAT MAY RESOLVE SOME ANXIETY THAT WE HAVE, NUMBER ONE, WOULD BE TO ALLOW DRAINAGE PLANS TO BE PREPARED BY A LICENSED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL. YES. THE FIRST ONE WILL BE ALLOWING THE DRAINAGE PLAN TO BE PREPARED BY A LICENSED DESIGNED PROFESSIONAL. IT WOULD BE A SURVEYOR , AN ENGINEER, AN ARCHITECT OR A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT. ALL OF THEM HAVE TH ABILITY TO SIGN AND SEAL. NOT EXCLUSIVELY JUST PIGEONHOLE TO AN ENGINEER PER SE THAT ANYONE WHO IS CONSIDERED A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL COULD PROVIDE IT BECAUSE THEY ALL WILL HAVE ACCESS. IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO AN ENGINEER OR IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO AN ARCHITECT THE WILL SUB THEIR WORKOUT AND HAVE ELEVATIONS BY A SURVEYOR ANYWAY SOME OF THE COST IS I'M GOING

[00:55:03]

TO GET A SURVEYOR HERE AND THEN I'M GOING TO DO WHATEVER. WHY NOT JUST HAVE A SURVEYOR BE ABLE TO PROVIDE IT BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO GIVE YOU YOUR ELEVATIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THE OTHER THING IS PROVIDE EXEMPTIONS. COMMISSIONER BRODERICK MENTIONED THAT. PROVIDE EXEMPTIONS FOR STRUCTURES THAT ARE UNDER A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON MENTIONED IF YOU PUT UP A SHED OR IF YOU HAVE A PAD AND IT IS A SMALL SHED OR WHATEVER IF IT IS UNDE 300 SQUARE FEET THEN IT'S EXEMPT. A 10 BY 30 SHED IS A SUBSTANTIAL BUILDING NOW . MAYB YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT. THE PROPOSITION THAT WAS MENTIONED BEFORE IS IF YOU HAVE A HALF ACRE LOT AND YOU HAVE SOMETHING SITUATED IN THE MIDDLE WHERE I YOUR DRAINAGE GOING TO GO? IT'L STAY ON YOUR LOT. MAYBE HAVE THAT LOOKED AT TO TRY TO FIGUR OUT HOW CLOSE IT IS TO THE SETBACKS OR TO THE SIDES. EVEN IF YOU HAVE A SMALL SHED AND IT'S CLOSE TO THE BOUNDARY THEN IT MAY CREATE A PROBLEM. THERE' SOME FACTORS THAT CAN BE REVIEWED. IF YOU'RE GOING TO SAY SQUARE FOOTAGE , DISTANCE AWAY FROM PROPERTY LINES THOSE CAN BE REVIEWED RIGHT UP FRONT TO BE ABLE TO SEE IF THEY WOULD CREATE A PROBLEM OR NOT. ESTABLISH CRITERIA FOR LOT COVERAGE. IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING HOME AND NOT NECESSARILY A BRAND-NEW HOME BU EXISTING AND YOU'RE GOING TO AD A POOL OR YOU ARE GOING TO ADD SUNROOM OR WHATEVER YOU ARE GOING TO EXPAND YOUR LOT. HAVE A THRESHOLD TO BE ABLE TO SAY IF IT'S GOING TO BE THIS LARGE OR IF YOUR LOT IS A ZERO LOT LINE PROPERTY THIS IS GOING TO CREATE TROUBLE AT THIS POINT.

THOSE BECOME THE FACTORS WE WOULD PUT IN PLACE TO SAY DURING THE REVIEW PROCESS THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT IT A LITTLE BI MORE CAREFULLY. IF YOU REQUIRE A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL TO PROVID A DOCUMENT OR THIS IS THE PLAN THEY'RE GOING TO PROVIDE -- AS I MENTIONED BEFORE , UNFORTUNATELY, IN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT ARE LICENSURE DOES NOT GIVE US THE ABILITY TO DO THE REVIEWS ON ENGINEERED DRAWINGS OF DRAINAGE. WE DO VERTICAL CONSTRUCTION. WE DON'T DO HORIZONTAL. ONE OF THE REASONS WHY -- NOT JUST THE SIZE OR THE FACT IT HAD A PROFESSIONAL TO BE ABLE TO BE RESPONSIBLE BUT IT'S BECAUSE WE CAN'T REVIEW THEM ANYWAY. WE WERE THINKING THIS COULD GO TO ENGINEERING THEN THAT MAYBE THEY CAN REVIEW AND SIT DOWN AN SAY COULD THESE CALCULATIONS WORK? YOU COULD CHANGE IT. YOU GET AN ACTUAL REVIEW. I'M SAYING IF YOU GIVE ME A DOCUMEN AND IT'S SIGNED AND SEALED YOU'RE ON THE HOOK FOR IT BECAUSE MY DEPARTMENT CAN'T MAKE YOU THE DOCUMENT. IF THAT PARTICULAR FACTOR IS GENERATIN THE NEED FOR AN ENGINEERED DRAWING THEN PERHAPS IF ENGINEERING WAS INVOLVED MAYBE THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO AFFECT THAT OR WHATNOT. THESE ARE SOME OF THE PRELIMINARY THINGS WE WOULD BE WILLING TO AMEND THIS ORDINANCE. AS IT IS, THE ORDINANCE IS IMPORTANT BUT I THINK AS COMMISSIONER JOHNSON MENTIONED IN THE FIRST DISCUSSION IT CAN BE REFINED. THERE'S SOME REFINEMENTS THAT W CAN MAKE TO IT. I THINK WE CAN DEFINITELY GET IT THERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR GETTING HERE. WE DEALT WITH 15 ITEMS THAT NIGHT. THIS WAS ONE OF 15 WE DEALT WITH AT THE LAST MEETING.

I DO RECALL YOU WERE TO COME BACK WITH EXACTLY WHAT WE ASKED TO COME BACK SO THANK YOU FOR GETTING TO THIS POINT. I SEE THE DESK OF CONCESSIONS. I LIK THE ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS. THE SPELLING OUT OF THOSE SPECIFIC ONES YOU CALL THE ARCHITECT, LAND SURVEY, ET CETERA ET CETER TO PROVIDE THIS ALTERNATIVE, WOULD THAT MEET THE THRESHOLD O PROFESSIONAL CERTIFICATION THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR THAT W ARE COMFORTABLE WITH IN YOUR

OPINION? >> YES. ANY OF THOSE ARE CONSIDERED DESIGN PROFESSIONALS THAT IS A PROFESSIONAL CERTIFICATION. THAT WOULD QUALIFY FOR US TO BE ABLE TO RECEIVE ANY BALLPARK IDEA OF COST WITH THOSE PROFESSIONALS.

FROM THE ENGINEERS IS THE SAME YOU JUST HAVE THAT RANGE . IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE PROJECT AND IT ALSO DEPEND ON THE COMPLEXITY OF THE PROJECT.

>> THANK YOU. >> MR. THOMAS, THANK YOU SO

[01:00:04]

MUCH FOR HAVING OUR DISCUSSION AND BRINGING THESE ALTERNATIVES WE ARE GETTING CLOSER. YOU'VE HEARD ME EXPRESS A NUMBER OF THINGS TO YOU AND WHAT I CONSIDER PROFESSIONALS , WHAT I CONSIDER CERTIFIED AND HOW YOU CAN CONSTRUCT THESE TYPES OF EXPANSIONS OR PROJECTS AND WHATNOT. ONE THING I DO WANT T SAY OUT LOUD , COMMISSIONERS, I WHAT I DON'T WANT TO DO IS I DON'T WANT TO CLOUD THE IDEA THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION IS JUST DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS WITHIN A PROPERTY THAT EXIST TODAY. IT'S VERY SPECIFIC IN THE WAY IT'S DRAFTED ABOUT A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME EXISTING WHETHER IT'S IN ADDITION, EXPANSION OR SOMETHIN ELSE ALONG THOSE LINES. IT'S EASY FOR US TO GET CLOUDED BY THE IDEA OF -- I'M GOING TO US MY HOUSE AS AN EXAMPLE. I WAS FIRST OR SECOND IN MY SQUARE AN EVERYONE BUILT UP AROUND ME. I' THE ONE THAT RECEIVES THE WATER THOSE HOUSES WERE BUILT AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE THEY'RE BILLED UP HIGHER AT THE ELEVATION.

SOMETIMES IT HAPPENS -- WE TRY NOT TO DO THIS. ALL MY LOVE TO HER CITY ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT SOMETIMES WE REBUILD ROADS AND CREATE SIMILAR SITUATIONS BECAUSE WE ARE CHANGING ELEVATIONS. THAT'S A FACT. EDWARDS ROAD IS ONE OF THEM.

LET'S TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE THAT'S REAL. I BRING THAT INTO PLAY BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO CLOUD THE CONVERSATION OF WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TODAY BUT THINK WE SHOULD ALSO REACH OUT YOU'VE ALREADY STARTED THAT PROCESS WITH OUR LOCAL PROFESSIONALS. MAYBE GARNER A LITTLE BIT OF CONVERSATION AGAI WITH YOUR TEAM AND THOSE LOCAL PROFESSIONALS. NOTHING IS FORMALIZED. COMMITTEE WAS BY TH COMMISSION. JUST STAFF GOING OUT AND TAKING THAT DIALOGUE AN TAKING THAT INFORMATION SPECIFICALLY OF THE ENGINEERS AND ARCHITECTS AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP THIS PROCESS INCLUDING THE LOCAL BUILDRS AND WHAT THEIR EXPLANATIONS ARE THEY ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES. THEY DO IT ALL THE TIME.

>> THEY COMPARE ALL THE TIME. >> THEY LOVE TO GIVE YOU A

REPORT ON THE COMPARES. >> WILL TELL YOU WHAT'S RIGHT

AND WRONG WITH ALL OF THEM. >> WE ARE GETTING THERE. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. I DO HAVE A PLACE IN MY HEART FOR AVOIDING ISSUES WITHIN NEIGHBORHOODS WITHOUT A DOUBT. I DON'T WANT YOU TO RECEIVE THOSE PHONE CALLS.

>> I DON'T LIKE TO RECEIVE THOS PHONE CALLS.

>> HE'S BROUGHT UP SOMETHING. WE HAD A GOOD DISCUSSION ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT TO REVIEW THIS ORBIS EVENT OR ADDRESS IT. HE IS LIMITED BY FLORIDA AND THE LAW OF WHAT HE'S CERTIFIED TO D IN ADDITION TO OUR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. HE SHARED WITH ME THAT OVER THE YEARS WE HAVE NEVER DONE IT WITH THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT HAS GOT INVOLVED IN THIS PART OF IT. WE WILL LEAVE THAT UP TO THE OPERATIONS AND ADMINISTRATION SECTION AND SEE WHAT WE CAN GET DONE. I THINK WE ARE CLOSE.

>> THIS IS ALL ABOUT RESILIENCE TO AND BEING MORE MINDFUL ABOUT

RESILIENCE. >> IT IS NOT OFTEN THAT I DO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. THAT RECOMMENDATION IS TO CONTINUE O WITH THE CERTIFICATION BY REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEE IN FLORIDA WITH EXEMPTIONS LISTED WITHIN THE ORDINANCE. WHETHER THAT BE SIZE, TYPE OF STRUCTURE OR DISTANCE FROM PROPERTY LINES. I THINK THAT WILL VERY MUCH SIMPLIFY THE SITUATION.

>> WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WE CA PASS THIS AS IS WRITTEN BUT GIVE DIRECTION? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

>> I THINK WE WANT YOU ALL TO FEEL A LITTLE BIT MORE COMFORTABLE. I WOULD RATHER WE COME BACK WITH A LIST OF EXEMPTIONS AND WE PRESENT THIS TO YOU AND YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHE VOTE . IF WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS THEN THAT'S WHAT WE WILL DO. I WANT YOU ALL TO FEEL COMFORTABLE ABOUT WHAT

WE'RE DOING. >> SAME HERE.

>> YES MA'AM. WHAT I'M TAKING FROM THIS AND HAVING LISTENED TO EVERYBODY IT SOUNDS LIKE TH YOU MIGHT WANT TO GO BUT YOU NEED SOME MORE SPECIFICS. THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS. HAVING SAID THAT I THINK IT'S CLEANER TO START THE PROCESS OVER WITH

[01:05:04]

ANOTHER VERSION OF THE ORDINANC AND ANOTHER FIRST AND SECOND READING. THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION.

>> THANK YOU. DO WE NOT APPROV THIS? IF WE GO THAT ROUTE?

>> IF IT IS YOUR DESIRE IT WOULD BE MOST LIKELY A MOTION T DENY OR A MOTION TO DISAPPROVE THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE AND THEN WE WOULD START OVER WITH A FRESH NEW ORDINANCE

>> REAL QUICK BEFORE WE MAKE ANY TYPE OF MOTION LET'S BE CONSIDERATE OF WHAT WE STARTED TO DO. PROTECTING HOMEOWNERS.

PAPER NOW SO LET'S THINK ABOUT TIME FRAMES HERE. I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE 60 DAYS 90 DAYS DOW THE ROAD AND WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF HURRICANE SEASON AND WE ARE DEALING WITH THIS. LET'S THINK ABOUT WHEN WE WANT TO BRING THIS BACK UP. NOT TRYING TO PUT MORE WORK ON STAFF BUT THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK WE NEED TO GET RIGHT AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE BECAUSEWE ARE TRYING TO PROTECT HOMEOWNERS WITH THI RUNOFF. IF ANYBODY SAW THE RAI FROM JUST THE LAST THREE DAYS DON'T WANT TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE GET HIT OR DON'T GET HIT AND HAVE ANOTHER STORM AND WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THIS T COME BACK. BEFORE WE MAKE A MOTION CAN WE COME TO SOME TYP OF AGREEMENT AMONGST OURSELVES SINCE WE ARE HERE OF A TIMEFRAM SO AT LEAST THE PUBLIC WILL KNOW WE ARE NOT JUST KICKING TH CAN DOWN THE ROAD? THIS IS WHA WE ARE DOING AND THIS IS WHEN W WILL DISCUSS IT AGAIN.

>> MR. THOMAS, WHAT KIND OF TIMEFRAME CAN YOU PUT TOGETHER? I THINK TALKING TO THE BUILDER ASSOCIATION IS A REALLY GOOD

IDEA. >> I SPOKE TO MADDIE THIS PAST -- SHE'S COMFORTABLE. THIS SUNDAY I'M GOING TO BE HEADING TO A CONFERENCE. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY WE CAN TRY TO HAVE SOMETHING EARLY AS THE NEXT COMMISSION MEETING.

>> YOU HAVE ADVERTISING REQUIREMENTS ? I THINK HE'S GOING TO DO IT ASAP IS WHAT I THINK.

>> I DON'T KNOW YOUR SCHEDULE. I DO KNOW I DON'T WANT TO BE WAITING ON IT AND THEN IN 60 DAYS -- I DON'T WANT THAT.

WE'VE GOTTEN TO A POINT WHERE THINK -- I KNOW. TO MY ENGINEER OVER HERE TO THE RIGHT SUBJECTS LIKE THIS I STAY OUT OF. I RELY ON THEIR EXPERTISE. I UNDERSTAND IN THE MIDDLE OF MY PROPERTY. I UNDERSTAND THE ONES THAT ARE CLOSE TO ZERO LOT LINES. A LOT OF THE STUFF I LEAVE UP TO YOU GUYS. IF YOU SA

THE NEXT MEETING -- >> AS SOON AS YOU LEGALLY CAN.

MR. MIMS. DO YOU WANT THIS TO COME BACK IN A CONFERENCE AGENDA? OR DO YOU WANT IT TO GO STRAIGHT TO FIRST READING?

>> I THINK THAT'S FOR THE ENGINEERS IN THE ROOM. DO WE

NEED TO FLESH THIS OUT? >> I BELIEVE THAT PAUL CAN COM BACK WITH SOME SPECIFIC EXEMPTIONS OR ALTERNATIVES FOR YOU TO DECIDE. I THINK WE CAN DO THAT THE FIRST MEETING OF JUNE. THAT WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM.

>> SECOND MEETING OF JUNE WOULD BE BETTER BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO BE HERE THE FIRST MEETING. YEAH.

>> WE DON'T HAVE MANY HURRICANE UNTIL AUGUST.

>> THIS IS AN IMPROVEMENT WITHIN OUR ORDINANCES. WE BROUGHT THIS IN OURSELVES. IT'S NOT THE COMMUNITY LOOKING FOR US. WE DO HAVE RULES AND REGULATIONS. IF THERE'S A PROBLEM I WANT THE PUBLIC TO KNOW. SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN. I CAN PROMISE YOU. SOMETHING CAN HAPPEN WITHIN THE

EXISTING ORDINANCES. >> WE ARE NOT UNPROTECTED.

YOU'RE RIGHT. >> SECOND MEETING IN JUNE?

>> I THINK IT'S CLEAR TO ME THA NEW CONSTRUCTION -- I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT SPELLED OUT SPECIFICALLY HERE. THAT'S REALL ONE OF THE CULPRITS THAT REALLY COME TO MY MIND UP FRONT

[01:10:01]

. PROTECT THOSE HOMEOWNERS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE WITH THE BIG NEW HOUSE IS COMING. I WANT TO SEE SPECIFIC DELINEATION WHEN I COMES TO THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR ORDINANCE. THAT, TO ME, IS A NO-BRAINER. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT NO CONSTRUCTION OVER CERTAIN SIZE SINGLE-FAMILY HOME I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS. BEYOND

THE SHED OF EVERYTHING ELSE. >> I BELIEVE WE ARE COVERED IN OUR EXISTING RULES , REGULATION AND STATE LAW.

>> THEY HAVE TO BE ENGINEERED?

>> HAS TO -- >> OKAY. I'M JUST MAKING SURE.

COVERED. >> I'M WORRIED ABOUT ANY PERSON WHO OWNS A LOT. NEW CONSTRUCTIO IS COVERED UNDER THE STATE

STATUTE. >> THE BUILDING CODE COVERS THAT. IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE THE BUILDING CODE COVERS SIDE SLOPE OF YARDS FROM A NEW HOUSE. THER IS A SPECIFIC DO NOT EXCEED ON

THE SLOPE . >> MR. THOMAS, THANK YOU FOR THE ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS. I THINK YOU ARE REALLY HEADING IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION HERE. WHEN YOU COME BACK WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE QUITE SPECIFIC IN COVERAGE RATIOS, PERCENTAGES, ET CETERA, SETBACKS, ZERO LOT LINES . ALL THAT STUFF. YOU'LL TAKE YOUR TEMPLATE HERE AND BULLET PORT I OR FINE-TUNE IT . WE WON'T SIT HERE AND START GETTING TECHNICA ABOUT PERCENTAGES OF COVERAGE AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M GETTING AT. THE SECOND COMMENT I HAD I THAT IT APPEARS THERE IS NO PROCESS IN PLACE NOW FOR THE REVIEW OF THIS. CANDIDLY I DON'T SEE PUBLIC WORKS DOING THIS REVIEW. YOU'RE INDICATING THAT YOUR DEPARTMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO IT DUE TO LICENSING ISSUES. WHERE DOE THIS GO?

>> LET ME JUMP IN HERE. I CAN DO THAT. HERE IS WHAT I WANT YOU ALL TO BE MINDFUL OF. IF W HAVE A REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER IN THE STATE OF FLORID CERTIFY A DRAWING THEN THAT PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER BEARS THE RESPONSIBILITY AND LIABILITY FO THAT DESIGN. THEY CAN PROVIDE THAT TO OUR BUILDING DIRECTOR AND WE SHALL MOVE FORWARD WITH HOWEVER , IF WE DO NOT HAVE THE CERTIFICATION THEN THERE I NO RESPONSIBLE PARTY FOR THAT IF THERE IS ANY ISSUES THAT ARISE FROM THE DESIGN. THAT'S WHY WE DESPERATELY WANT TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PROFESSIONAL LICENSED DESIGNER CERTIFY THES DRAWINGS.

>> WE ARE OUTSOURCING IT IT IS PRESENTED TO A BUILDING, THEY

PROCESS IT -- OTHERWISE -- >> WE WOULD HAVE TO ROUTE IT TO THE DEPARTMENT. IT WOULD LENGTHEN THE REVIEW AND THERE

WILL BE AN ADDITIONAL COST. >> THAT'S ROW IS GOING BUT THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION. WE ARE SHIFTING THE BURDEN TO THE OUTSIDE EXPERT . THEY BRING IT IN AND THE BUILDING IS ONLY THING THEY ARE DOING . MOVE IT FORWARD.

>> I'M GOOD WITH THAT. >> OKAY.

>> I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING I'VE HEARD EXCEPT I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU. I BELIEVE THERE ARE CIVIL MATTERS IN PARTS AND PIECES THAT CAN BE MOVED FORWAR IF YOU'RE CREATING AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON MY PROPERTY. I BELIEVE THAT. IT DOESN'T MATTE WHAT ENGINEER ARE WHAT ARCHITECT.

>> CIVIL AVENUES TO GET THAT RIGHT.

>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE ARE TRYING TO CREATE COMPLIANCE FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD AND THER ARE FOLKS THAT ARE GOING TO SAY THIS IS TOO BURDENSOME AND THEN THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WANT TO PULL A PERMIT. THERE IS THE NEXT CAUSE-AND-EFFECT. THAT'S WHAT I DON'T WANT TO CAUSE.

>> I WASN'T GOING TO MENTION THAT.

>> I JUST HAVEN'T MENTIONED IT.

>> PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO THAT. YEAH. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK ON THIS. I APPRECIATE YOUR RESEARCH AND YOUR

[01:15:07]

RESILIENCE. YOU KEEP PLAYING THAT ROLE. THANK YOU. WHO WOUL

LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? >> I MOVE THAT WE DENY

ORDINANCE 23-029. >> COMMISSIONER BRODERICK.

COMMISSIONER GAINES. COMMISSIO C JOHNSON. COMMISSIONER J

[e. Legislative Hearing - Ordinance 23-030 An application of a parcel of land approximately 6.79 acres, located west of US Highway 1 on the South side of Weatherbee Road. Parcel ID: 3403-502-0015-000-5. FIRST READING]

JOHNSON. MAYOR HUDSON. THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ORDINANCE 23-030. AN ORDINANCE EXTENDING THE TERRITORIAL LIMIT OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA TO INCLUDE ONE PARCEL A OR NEAR WEST OF U.S. HIGHWAY 1 ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF WEATHERBY ROAD AND IS SHOWN ON EXHIBIT A. DIRECTING THE ST. LUCIE COUNTY AND PLACE IT ON THE CITY TEXTILE AS OF JANUARY 1ST, 2024 DIRECTING THE ST. LUCIE COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR TO COLLECT TAXES ON THE HEREIN DESCRIBED PROPERT ESTABLISHING THE ZONING DESIGNATION, ESTABLISHING THE LAND DESIGNATION, DIRECT FILING OF THE ORDINANCE OF THE CLERK O THE COURT AND CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR OFFICER OF ST. LUCIE COUNTY, DIRECTING REVISIO OF THE CHARTER BOUNDARY ARTICLE TO BE FILED WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND SUBMITTED TO THE OFFICE OF ECONOMIC AND DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY CALLS REPEALIN ALL ORDINANCE OR PARTS THEREOF IN CONFLICT HERE WITH AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE THIS IS THE FIRST READING.

>> THANK YOU. >> COMMISSIONERS, TODAY BEFORE YOU IS AN APPLICATION FOR AN ANNEXATION ON WEATHERBY ROAD.

PARCEL I.D. 34.0 3.50200150005. APPLICANT IS RED TAIL DESIGN GROUP WITH THE REPRESENTATIVE BEING TAUGHT MARI. THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE HOFFMAN FAMILY LIMITED PARTNERSHIP AND THE PARCEL I.D. IS THERE BELOW. IN SUMMARY, THIS IS A REQUEST FOR REVIEW OF AN APPLICATION FOR AN ANNEXATION OF ONE PARCEL INTO THE CITY WITH THE CITY FUTURE LAND USE OF OUR END MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND THE CIT ZONING OF OUR FOUR WHICH IS A MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. THIS IS THE SITE LOCATION OF THE PARCEL THAT IS 6.94 GIVE OR TAKE ACRES. THE CURRENT FUTURE LAND USE IS RESIDENTIAL HIGH 1 UNITS PER ACRE IN ST. LUCIE COUNTY. PROPOSED AS A FUTURE LAND USE OF MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL FOR THE CITY OF FOR PIERCE. THE EXISTING AND PROPOSED ZONING IS RM-11 WHICH IS MULTIFAMILY 11 UNITS PER ACR IN ST. LUCIE COUNTY PROPOSED IS OUR FOUR MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL CITY OF FORT PIERCE THE PLANNING BOARD AT THEIR MARCH 13TH, 2023 MEETING VOTED UNANIMOUSLY TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE ANNEXATION. STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CITY COMMISSION TO VOTE APPROVA OF THE PROPOSED ANNEXATION.

TONIGHT AN ALTERNATIVE RECOMMENDATION CAN BE GIVEN ON OF A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS OR TO A

RECOMMENDATION OF DISAPPROVAL. >> QUESTIONS OF STAFF?

>> THERE WERE NO CONDITIONS, CORRECT?

>> YEAH. I WAS GOING TO ASK THAT TOO. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE PLEASE COME FORWARD. SEEING NO ONE I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND

ENTERTAIN A MOTION. >> MOVED TO APPROVE.

>> COMMISSIONER BRODERICK. COMMISSIONER GAINES. COMMISSIO

[14. COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC Any person who wishes to comment on any subject may be heard at this time. Please limit your comments to three (3) minutes or less, as directed by the Mayor, as this section of the Agenda is limited to thirty minutes. The City Commission will not be able to take any official actions under Comments from the Public. Speakers will address the Mayor, Commissioners, and the Public with respect. Inappropriate language will not be tolerated.]

C JOHNSON. COMMISSIONER J JOHNSON. MAYOR HUDSON. THE NEX ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.

>> THIS IS A TIME FOR ANY MEMBE OF THE COMMUNITY TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION . PLEASE COME FORWAR . YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. PLEAS STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS . THEY WILL GIVE YOU A THREE

SECOND WARNING . >> MY NAME IS DALE BARNES.

>> COULD YOU GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS?

>> 2215 MATANZAS AVENUE . >> THANK YOU.

>> I CAME HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH WILD ANIMALS.

SPECIFICALLY CHICKENS. THEY BECOME A NUISANCE . RESIDENCE A 2310 HAVE BUILT A CHICKEN COOP IN THE BACK OF THEIR HOUSE. THE CHICKENS GOT OUT AND THEY DON' WANT TO RETRIEVE THEM OR CATCH THEM. THEY ARE IN MY YARD COME IN MY DRIVEWAY, IN MY CAR FORT.

THEY'RE ALL AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I'VE CALLED ANIMAL CONTROL A COUPLE TIMES AND THEY DIDN'T SHOW UP. THAT' WHY I'M HERE. I HAVE A PICTURE IF YOU WANT TO SEE THEM WALKING

[01:20:09]

AROUND. >> I THINK YOU GAVE YOUR ADDRESS AT THE BEGINNING SO WE WILL LOOK INTO IT. THANK YOU, SIR. ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION PLEASE COME FORWARD. SEEING NO ONE I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

[15. COMMENTS FROM THE CITY MANAGER]

I WILL MOVE ON. >> COMMENTS FROM THE CITY