[a. Discussion of the federal proposal that aims to reduce carbon emissions from power plants led by Jacob Williams, Chairman of the Florida Reliability Coordinating Council Board.]

>> FIRST ITEM OFTEN THE AGENDA IS THE DISCUSSION OF THE FEDERAL PROPOSAL THAT TIMES REDUCE CARBON EMISSIONS FROM POWER PLANTS LED BY JACOB WILLIAMS, CHAIRMAN OF THE RELIABILITY

COORDINATING COUNCIL BOARD. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE JACOB WILLIAMS WITH US AND ALSO JAVIER CISNEROS WITH THE FORT PIERCE UTILITY AUTHORITY. PL

PLEASE. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: GOOD MORNING, MADAM MARE, COMMISSION, MISS C CCOX AND STANDING IN FOR M MR. MIMS. AISLE ACOPED WHICH JACOB WILLIAMS, GENERAL MANAGER FOR THE RELIABILITY COORDINATING COUNCIL BOARD. SUSAN IN HIM PART OF THE TEAM AND WITH HIM HIS BEAUTIFUL WIFE, DR. SERIES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE UTILITY INDUSTRY HAS TO DEAL WITH IS CHANGE. CONSTANTLY CHANGING REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS IS AN AREA WE HAVE TO STAY ON TOP OF.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE LEARNED AT OUR ANNUAL CONFERENCE THIS YEAR IS A RULE THAT REALLY DOES IMPACT THE ELECTRIC INDUSTRY, SPECIFICALLY UTILITIES THAT HAVE NATURAL GAS POWER PLANTS LIKE FPUA AND FMPA. I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE JACOB WILLIAMS WHO WILL TALK OF THE NEW EPA PROPOSAL THAT CAUSE OF ACTION OF CO2 EMISSIONS AND HOW THAT IKTS PACTS US AS AN INDUSTRY AND IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMISSION TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING, WHAT IT MEANS FOR US AND HOW JACOB AND HIS TEAM HAS BEEN WORKING TO ADDRESS THAT AND GIVE FEEDBACK AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS TO MAKE SMART DECISIONS. I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MR.

WILLIAMS. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU FOR

BEING WITH US. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: THANK YOU MADAM MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS. I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU THIS MORNING ABOUT A PROPOSED RULE BY THE US-EP THAT MOST OF US DON'T THINK OF THE US-EPA DAY TO DAY, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THIS ONE CUTS ACROSS WHAT WE ARE ALL ABOUT. SO I WANTED TO BRING YOU UPDATED ON IT OF. THE EPA IS PROPOSING A RULE TO LIMIT CO2 EMISSIONS FROM THE POWER PLANT INDUSTRY AND.

FOR FLORIDA, THIS IS THE MOST PROBLEM, BECAUSE FLORIDA IS THE MOST GAS DEPEND PENNED ENT ON THE STATE WITH HOW MUCH GENERATION WE HAVE HAND THIS WILL FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THE POWER GRID IN EIGHT SHORT YEARS. YOU THINK OF THE POWER INDUSTRY.

BIG ENERGY INDUSTRY. TAKES 40 TO 60 YEARS TO BUILD UP THE INFRASTRUCTURE. EIGHT YEARS TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE IT. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

UNFORTUNATELY, FLORIDA IS THE MOST IMPACTED AND WILL IMPACT THE RELIABILITY OF POWER AND THE AFFORDABILITY OF POWER IN THE STATE AND NOT GET INTO IT. HIGH LEVEL WHAT THE EPA PROPOSED CLOSING ALL THE COAL PLANTS IN THE UNITED STATES FROM 2023.

20% OF OUR ELECTRIC SUPPLY. MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR FLORIDA, IT WILL MEANINGLY IMPACT THE NATURAL GAS PLANTS IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ARE ANOTHER 40% OF OUR INJURY, BUT IN FLORIDA, 75% OF OUR ELECTRICITY COME FROM NATURAL GAS PLANTS.

THE EPA BASED THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS ON TWO TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE NOT AVAILABLE, COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE FOR FINANCIALLY VIABLE AT THIS POINT, CARBON CAPTURE AND STORAGE WHICH I WON'T GET INTO AND GREEN HYDROGEN.

HYDROGEN WOULD REPLACE NATURAL GAS IN THESE GAS PLANTS.

WHICH IS NOT PRACTICAL TO DO AT THIS PERIOD OF TIME.

IT WOULD TAKE MANY YEARS TO PERMIT, CONSTRUCT AND ACTUALLY PUT IN PLACE HYDROGEN PRODUCTION FACILITIES.

FOR EXAMPLE, OUT HERE AT TREASURE COAST.

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THE TREASURE COAST FACILITY. YOU WOULD NEED TO PUT A HYDROGEN GAS FACILITY AND A STORAGE TANK AT THE FACILITY TO GET THAT PERMITTED AND APPROVED. PUTTING A HYDROGEN STORAGE TANK -- PUTTING A MAJOR HYDROGEN STORAGE LINK THAT NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT AND ALL KIND OF ISSUES AND EXPLOSIVE NATURE OF HYDROGEN AS A FUEL. YOU HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA THE PROBLEMS THERE. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, ALTERNATIVELY TO DOING THAT, THE RULE WOULD SAY, TAKE OUR LOW-COST, CLEAN PLANTS LIKE TREASURE COAST AND BACK THEM DOWN AND RUN HIGH-COST, MUCH HIGHER EMITTING PLANTS LIKE DOWN IN SOCK ISLAND THAT USES DIESEL FUELS WHICH MEANS RAISING RATES AND MAKING THE AIR -- AIR DIRTIER AND ALL THAT.

FINALLY JUST TO GIVE YOU CONTEXT.

I WILL LET YOU IN THAT THE U.S. ALREADY LEADS THE WORLD IN CO2 REDUCTIONS. SO THIS PROPOSAL BY THE EPA GOES WAY ABOVE WHAT IS REQUIRED TO THAT.

THIS MAP HERE GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF THE PRETTY STARK DIFFERENCE.

THIS IS THE AMOUNT OF GENERATION -- NATURAL GAS GENERATION THAT SUPPLIES THE POWER GRID IN EACH OF THE REGIONS OF THE COUNTRY.

IF YOU NOTICE, THE DARK BLUE, FLORIDA, WE ARE 75% NATURAL GAS GENERATION TO MEET OUR POWER NEEDS IN THE STATE.

THERE IS NO OTHER REGION IN THE COUNTRY THAT IS 50%.

AND SO THE RULE THAT REQUIRES US TO EITHER PUT IN HYDROGEN PRODUCTION FACILITIES AND OR BACK THE ROLLDOWN HURTS FLORIDA THE MOST. BY FAR.

TO THE POINT THAT IN MY OTHER ROLE, I AM BOTH THE GENERAL MANAGER AND CEO OF FLORIDA OF MUNICIPAL POWER AGENCY BUT I AM ALSO THE CHAIR OF THE RELIABILITY COORDINATING COUNCIL BOARD. WHICH IS ALL THE UTILITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA WHO LOOK AT THE RELIABILITY FOR ELECTRICITY SUPPLY IN THE STATE. AND AFTER THE ROLE WAS PUT OUT, THE FLORIDA UTILITIES AS WHOLE CAME TOGETHER AND UNANIMOUSLY AGREED ON THE STATEMENT THAT ESSENTIALLY THERE WOULD BE 8% OF OUR AGENCY WOULD NOT GET SERVED IN 2032 IF THIS RULE GOES INTO PLACE. 8% ENERGY MEANS WE HAVE ROLLING BLACKOUTS IN THE STATE. 8% ENERGY UNSERVED MEANS IF YOU WANT TO BREAK IT DOWN HOW IT LOOKS, THAT ESSENTIALLY TWO MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR, ALL RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS WOULDN'T HAVE POWER IN A ROLLING SITUATION.

SIMPLY BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE TO BACK DOWN OUR GAS UNITS TO LEVELS WAY BELOW WHERE THEY RUN TODAY AND WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH GENERATION IN THE STATE TO MEET OUR NEEDS.

THIS IS A VERY UNUSUAL THING FOR THE FLORIDA RELIABILITY COUNCIL TO DO THAT. A AND THE OTHER PART OF IT -- THE FARC DOES NOT DEAL WITH BUT THE FMUC DOES. THE COUNCIL TALKS OF THE RELIABILITY OF ELECTRICITY. FMPA, AND DID A STUDY AND INCREASE THE COST OF ELECTRICITY IN FLORIDA BY 200%.

LET'S GO BACK A YEAR AGO, YOU WERE VOTING ON 30%, 40% RATE INCREASES. IT WAS QUITE DIFFICULT.

FORTUNATELY PRICES HAVE COME DOWN NOW.

VOTING ON 00% PRICE INCREASE IS NOT VIABLE IN THE STATE OF FORIDA SIMPLY BECAUSE THE DEMOGRAPHICS AND HOW THAT WORKS.

AND WE USE SO MUCH ELECTRICITY. YOU CAN SEE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE PERCENT INCREASE AROUND THE UNITED STATES WITH OUR ANALYSIS.

THE STATES WITH THE SOUTHEAST ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE EAST CENTRAL AREA, WE WILL ALL BE IN THE 200ISH PERCENT INCREASE OF PRICES FOR ELECTRICITY WHICH IS UNSUSTAINABLE AND WOULD HARM THE QUALITY OF LIFE AROUND THE U.S. SOME SAY WHY.AREN'T WE DOING MORE SOLAR. THE ANSWER IS, WE ARE.

WE ARE DOING MORE SOLAR. BUT THE EPA IN THEIR ANALYSIS SAYS NOT ONLY ARE WE GOING TO ASSUME THAT FLORIDA IS GOING TO TRIPLE THE AMOUNT OF SOLAR THAT IS CURRENTLY IN THE GROUND, THAT IS WHAT THE UTILITIES ARE PLANNING BUT THEY CAN, AGAIN, DOUBLE THAT NUMBER TWO YEARS LATER.

THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT IN FLORIDA, AS MUCH AS -- AS MUCH AS WE MIGHT THINK, THERE IS A LOT LESS LAND AVAILABLE TO PUT SOLAR PANELS UP THAN PEOPLE THINK.

IF YOU LOOK AT THAT MAP, THE WILDLIFE AREAS WITH FEDERAL WILDFIRE JUST STARTING. THE OTHER THING TO REMEMBER THAT FLORIDA HAS ABOUT 0% OF ITS LANDS ARE WETLANDS.

SOME OF THOSE AREAS ARE OFF-LIMIT AS WELL.

AND THE NASA MAP WITH THE AREA SHOWING WHERE ALL THE CONCENTRATION OF PEOPLE ARE. AND PRETTY SOON, YOU START REDUCING AND YOU REALIZE WE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH LAND AVAILABLE TO PUT IN SOLAR PANELS.

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IF WE WANT TO DO THAT AND HAVE AN INDUSTRIAL MOONSCAPE OF SOLAR PANEL ARE THAT IS NOT FLORIDA ANYMORE.

THOSE WHO SAY WE SHOULD ADD JUST SOLAR, NOT PRACTICAL FOR THE LAND STANDPOINT LET ALONE THE COST INCREASES OF 00% OR MORE.

JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA HAND THIS WAS SOMEWHAT -- THIS WAS DONE FOR OUR KISSIMMEE FACILITY, CANE ISLAND.

THE LITTLE YELLOW DOT THERE IS THE CANE ISLAND FACILITY.

IF YOU WERE TO TAKE AND SAY I WANT ALL THE POWER THAT THAT LITTLE FACILITY DOES, WOULD YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO IN THAT GREEN SQUARE AREA CARPET THAT AREA WITH SOLAR PANELS.

EQUIVALENT WITH CARPETING HALF OF DISNEY WORLD, NOT JUST THE THEME PARK, THE EN DIRE DISNEY COMPLEX.

AND YOU GO, BUT A LITTLE 30-ACRE SITE PRODUCES AS MUCH AS ALL OF THAT AREA. SAME THING AT TREASURE COAST.

SAME ANALYSIS WILL BE DONE THERE.

AGAIN, IN THAT LITTLE BITTY PLOT OF LAND COMES AN AWFUL LOT OF POWER AND TAKES THREE OR FOUR SQUARE MILES TO DO THE SAME THING AS CANE ISLAND -- OR THE TREASURE COAST FACILITY.

ALL RIGHT, THE OTHER THING I WANT TO GO BACK TO IS THIS CHALLENGES NOT JUST A FLORIDA CHALLENGE.

IT IS ACTUALLY A NATIONAL CHALLENGE.

THIS SHOWS YOU THE PERCENT OF GENERATION THAT IS EITHER COAL OR NATURAL GAS. FLORIDA IS GAS-DEPENDENT.

YOU TAKE COAL AND NATURAL GAS TOGETHER, SOME IN THE SOUTHEAST AND AROUND TEXAS AND WHATNOT THAT ARE SIMILARLY IMPACTED.

THE EPA PROPOSAL THAT CAME OUT AT THE END OF MAY GAVE 60-DAY PERIOD TO CHANGE THE INDUSTRY IN EIGHT SHORT YEARS.

NO WAY THE INDUSTRY CAN DO ALL OF THE ANALYSIS OF THAT.

BUT WITH THAT SAID, WHAT SOME OF THE REGION DID -- FOUR REGIONS TOGETHER. PGM, ERCOT.

THEY ARE THE COLORED AREAS IN THE REGION.

THEY SERVE 154 MILLION AMERICANS CAME OUT WITH A SUMMARY STATEMENT AND SAID THAT THE EPA PROPOSAL IN SUMMARY, HOPE IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE STRATEGY. YOU ARE BASING YOUR PROPOSAL ON HOPE FOR TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT AVAILABLE AND COMMERCIALLY VIABLE AND WE WILL HAVE RELIABILITY PROBLEMS. AND THEY POINT BACK TO THE FACT THAT, JUST LOOK, OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS AT WHAT HAPPENED. BACK IN TEXAS IN FEBRUARY OF 2021, THERE WERE THE ROLLING BLACKOUT THERE IS BECAUSE OF WINTER STORM YURI. 60 TO 65% OF THE GENERATION SERVING THAT LOAD WAS GAS AND COAL.

IF IT IS TAKEN DOWN MEANINGLY, HOW DO YOU SERVE THE LOAD? VERY FUNDAMENTALLY. FOR THOSE WHO DON'T REMEMBER -- AND IT WAS SOMEWHAT QUIET BACK THIS PAST CHRISTMAS.

CHRISTMAS EVE, CHRISTMAS DAY, WE WERE COLD HERE.

BUT JUST TO OUR NORTH IN THE CAROLINAS AND TENNESSEE, THEY WERE HAVING ROLLING BLACKOUTS. NOBODY KNEW ABOUT IT BECAUSE EVERYBODY WAS CHRISTMAS AND THE MEDIA WENT AWAY.

BUT THE FACT WAS, THAT COLD WEATHER, WE COULDN'T SUPPLY THE POWER IN THE CAROLINAS OR TENNESSEE.

OUR CFO WAS IN NASHVILLE WITH CHRISTMAS FOR THEIR FAMILY.

THEY HAD NO POWER ON CHRISTMAS DAY TO MAKE CHRISTMAS DINNER.

THIS IS THE AMERICA THAT IS BEING PROPOSED BY THE US-EPA AND THEY ARE STARTING TO RAISE THEIR VOICE ABOUT THAT.

STEP BACK ONE MOMENT AND I WILL FINISH UP REAL QUICK.

THIS IS ALL AROUND CO2 EMISSIONS AND THE EPA WANTS US TO REDUCE CO 2 EMISSIONS. IF YOU LOOK WHAT HAPPENED AROUND THE WORLD SINCE 2020, THE UNITED STATES HAS REDUCED OUR CO 2 EMISSIONS PER UNIT POPULATION MORE THAN ANYONE IN THE WORLD, ANY MEANINGFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

YOU LOOK, WE ARE DOWN 32% FROM BACK IN 2000.

HOW IS THAT DONE? BY USING MORE NATURAL GAS TO MAKE MORE POWER AND LESS COAL, DIESEL.

ALSO HAS BEEN DONE. MADE OUR ENERGY SO AFFORDABLE FOR THE LAST DECADE UNTIL GAS PRICES BLEW UP.

GERMANY REDUCED ABOUT 25%. BUT YOU LOOK AT JAPAN, RUSSIA AND KOREA, YOU KNOW, AND EVEN THOUGH THEY ALL AGREED TO THESE TREATIES AND SAID WE ARE GOING TO REDUCE THINGS.

WHAT HAPPENED? THEY ACTUALLY INCREASED EMISSIONS. LET ALONE WHAT CHINA AND INDIA ARE DOING. CHINA AND INDIA 2.8 BILLION PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD. WE ARE 360 MILLION PEOPLE.

SO WHATEVER WE DO IS DWARFED BY WHATEVER CHINA AND INDIA DO AND THEIR EMISSION ALSO KEEP GROWING.

THE WHOLE MISSION THAT THE UNITED STATES WILL DO THINGS THAT WILL TAKE OUR QUALITY OF LIFE BACKWARDS AND SOMEHOW CHANGE THE WORLD WHEN CHINA AND INDIA ARE GOING TO KEEP GROWING AS THEY ARE BECAUSE THEY WANT THE QUALITY OF LIFE WE HAVE.

AND THE WAY YOU GET THAT IS BY USING ENERGY.

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THE AIR CONDITIONING WE HAVE IS ENERGY.

YOU KNOW, AND SO, ANYWAY, IT SEEMS TO BE A MISGUIDED THING.

SO I WILL JUST END WITH, WE HAVE GOT SEVERAL STEPS.

AND I WOULD ASK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COMMENTS ARE CONCLUDED BY THE EPA. BUT THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES FOR COMMUNITIES TO GET INVOLVED. AND ONE IS, TO HAVE PRESSURE ON THE U.S.-EPA WITH FEDERAL AND STATE DELEGATIONS TO SAY, LOOK, WE UNDERSTAND THE GOALS HERE, BUT WE CAN'T HAVE RATE INCREASES AT 00%. WE CAN'T HAVE ROLLING BLACKOUTS.

AND THE STATE DELEGATION CAN WEIGH IN ON THOSE THINGS.

AND WHETHER IT IS BRINGING THE EPA BEFORE CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEES, ETC., OR THE STATES -- THE STATE OF FLORIDA IS LOOKING TO JOIN A LAWSUIT WITH OTHER STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO ARE HAVING A PROBLEM. SO, AGAIN, IT IS PART OF THE ISSUE. IT AFFECTS US DRAMATICALLY HERE, BECAUSE IF IT IS INTO PLACE, WE WILL BACK DOWN THE GENERATION OF TREASURE COAST. ONE OF OUR LOW-COST PLANTS.

WHY? EPA SAY BELOW 50% AND PUT IN HYDROGEN. WE ARE NOT GOING TO PUT IN HYDROGEN IN THE NEXT EIGHT YEARS, 75, 80%.

WE HAVE TO TAKE IT UNDER 50%. WE DON'T HAVE IS THE PLACE TO GET ALL THE EXTRA POWER WE NEED. WITH THAT, I WILL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU, SIR. QUESTIONS?

COMMISSIONER BRODERICK. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: LET ME PHRASE THIS CORRECTLY HERE. I AM GOING TO ASSUME THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL COME OUT OF THE ETHER AT SOME POINT IN TIME AND DETERMINE THAT HAVING PEOPLE WITH NO POWER IS PROBABLY NOT A REAL FEASIBLE SOLUTION. SO THIS IS AN EPA MANDATE.

NOT A CONGRESSIONAL ACT. >> THE EPA.

NOT A CONGRESSIONAL MANDATE. THE EPA'S MANDATE.

THEY ARE CLAIMING THEY HAVE THE ABILITY ABILITY TO DO THAT UNDER SECTION 111. WON'T GET INTO ALL THE DETAILS.

THEY THINK OF REDUCING EMISSIONS, THAT IS WITHIN THEIR

JURISDICTION. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I

UNDERSTOOD THAT. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: THE CHALLENGE WAS -- YOU RAISED A GOOD QUESTION.

THEY DID NOT CONSULT WITH THE FEDERAL REGULATORY, THE DOE, ALL THE RELIABLE ORGANIZATIONS AND ALL THE UTILITIES PROVIDING.

THEY PUT THE RULES OUT. THEY HAVE NO -- NOT IN THAT JURISDICTION TO RUN THE ELECTRIC AND ENERGY SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES. IT IS SIMPLY TO TEAL WITH THE

ENVIRONMENTAL ASPECT. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: UNDERSTOOD. AND I AM GOING TO SPECULATE.

YOU TOUCHED CONTINUE TO BRIEFLY, THAT ULTIMATELY IF THIS DOES -- IF THIS PROGRAM IS PUT INTO PLACE, IT IS GOING TO BE A

RATHER MASSIVE LITIGATION. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: CORRECT.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I AM GOING TO ASSUME THAT ALL POWER PRODUCERS NATIONWIDE WILL JOIN IN ON SOME CAPACITY.

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: SOME WILL. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: LET

THEM TAKE THE LEAD. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: SOME WHO PUT THEIR FUTURE IN RENEWABLES SAY WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE MANDATED

RENEWABLES. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: ON THAT TOPIC AND MAY BE A SIDEBAR TO YOUR ENTIRE PRESENTATION AND TALKING OF RENEWABLES. THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK OR INFORMATION BEING PROCESSED AROUND RELATIVE TO DOWNSIZED NUCLEAR PLANTS. IS THAT A VIABLE OPTION REALISTIC BASED ON PROJECTED COSTS, ETC.?

OR IS THAT JUST FANTASYLAND? >>JACOB WILLIAMS: IT IS A VIABLE OPTION WITH ONE CAVEAT. WE MUST CHANGE THE WAY WE REGULATE THE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND HERE IS MY SIMPLE EXAMPLE. IN MAYOR POINTS IN PARTS OF THE UNITED STATES. A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT SHOWS UP OFTEN. IN NEW YORK CITY, BOSTON, PICK YOUR PORT, JACKSONVILLE. CALLED A NUCLEAR SUB AND NUCLEAR AIRCRAFT CARRIER. THERE IS A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT ON THIS SHIP. YOU DON'T SEE THE WHOLE WORLD STOP AND ALL THE ADMINISTRATION AND REGULATIONS GO ON.

THE POWER GENERATION HAS -- ALMOST DDRACONIAN SET OF REGULATIONS BEFORE THEM. IT IS TROUBLING, AND YET WE NEVER HAD A FATALITY IN A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT OR NUCLEAR SUB FROM NUCLEAR ENERGY. IT COULD BE VIABLE, BUT THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT HAS TO CHANGE.

THE REST OF THE WORLD DOES IT BETTER.

WE PUT SO MUCH BUREAUCRACY ON IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: SAY THAT THE GLIDE SCOPE IS CLEARED FOR THIS. AND MY BOTTOM LINE QUESTION IS VERY SIMPLE. A BRAND-NEW BEAUTIFUL GAS-FIRED PLANT RIGHT OUT WEST OF HERE. IF YOU WERE GOING TO BUILD A NUCLEAR PLANT, CAN YOU BRING IN POWER PRICING EQUAL TO WHAT WE ARE GETTING FROM GENERATING FROM NATURAL GAS WITH THAT RELATIVELY

[00:20:02]

NEW PLANT THAT RUNS -- MY TOUR OF IT SAID THEY RUN AT MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY. IS THERE A COST COMPARISON OR A PIPE DREAM THAT NUCLEAR -- LIKE THE PLANTS THEY WERE BUILDING IN THE '80S OFF THE CHAIN AS FAR AS COSTS ARE CONCERNED?

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: THE REASON -- IT COULD BE RELATIVELY COMPARABLE -- COMPARABLE. NOT AS LOW COST BUT WHAT YOU ARE COMPARING NATURAL GAS IS. IF NATURAL GAS WAS TO DOUBLE OR TRIPLE, THE NUCLEAR PLANTS COULD COME IN AT THAT LEVEL IF THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT WAS FREED UP.

BUT THAT -- THOSE ARE BIG IFS, RIGHT.

YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT. WE NEED A LITTLE BIT OF BALANCE HERE. IF ALL WE ARE RIDING ON ARE THREE NATURAL GAS LINES THAT RUN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES POWER SYSTEM. WE CAN LOSE ONE AND SURVIVE.

BUT WE CAN'T LOSE TWO. WHAT IS YOUR ALTERNATIVE.

YOU HAVE TO SAY, OKAY, I GOT TO HAVE SOMETHING.

WE COULD EXPAND THE NUCLEAR PLANTS AT TURKEY POINT.

MAYBE ST. LUCIE AND OVER AT CRYSTAL RIVER.

NOT USING THE OLD TECHNOLOGY, USING THE SMALL MODULE NUCLEAR ONES. ALL THE PROPERTY.

ALL THE TRANSMISSION LINES. ALL THE SECURITY.

EVERYTHING YOU NEED. YOU CAN PUT THOSE IN THERE.

YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE ZERO, NUMBER ONE, TWO AND THREE AND THIS BRAND-NEW TECHNOLOGY. IT WILL COME.

JUST A MATTER WILL YOU CHANGE THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT IN

THIS COUNTRY. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK:

UNDERSTOOD IF. >>MAYOR HUDSON: OTHER QUESTIONS.

COMMISSIONER GAINES? >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I AM SITTING HERE. AND I HAVE BEEN WAITING ON THIS PRESE PRESENTATION.

AS A CITY COMMISSIONER, OTHER THAN TALKING TO, I GUESS, MY LOCAL REPRESENTATIVE FROM D.C. OR THE STATE, WHAT CAN I TO DO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF FORT PIERCE FROM 2023, WHICH I HOPE NOT TO BE SITTING HERE IN 2023, BUT SET THE PLACE AND STAND SO WE DON'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM. BECAUSE THE LAST THING -- I AM SITTING HERE -- WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS PAST WINTER AND BLACKOUTS. AND I KNOW THE GRIEF THAT WE GET AND THE CALLS WE GET WHEN A HURRICANE HITS AND PEOPLE ARE WITHOUT POWER FOR 30 MINUTES. I AM JUST BEING HONEST WITH YOU.

THE CALLS START COMING. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT -- THEY WANT OUR TRUCKS OUT THERE WHEN THE WIND IS STILL BLOWING TO TURN THEIR POWER BACK ON IN 30 MINUTES OR LESS.

AND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ROLLING BLACKOUTS.

I READ WHERE IT SAYS LIKE A WHOLE TWO MONTHS.

I AM JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT CAN I DO SITTING IN THIS POSITION TO -- TO SAY, HEY, GUYS, LET'S -- LET'S SLOW THE BRAKES. LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.

BECAUSE THESE "IFS," YOU SAID A LOT OF "IFS," I CAUGHT IT.

I WAS PAYING ATTENTION. I CAUGHT THE "IFS." IF THESE "IFS" TURN THAT WAY, THE STATE OF FLORIDA IS IN TROUBLE. IF STATE OF FLORIDA IS IN TROUBLE, THEN FORT PIERCE IS IN TROUBLE.

WHAT CAN WE DO AS A BOARD OTHER THAN ME GETTING ON THE PHONE AND TALKING TO THE REPRESENTATIVES THAT ARE UP IN D.C. AND REPRESENTATIVES UP IN TALLAHASSEE TO SAY, HEY, GUYS, WE NEED TO STOP WHAT WE ARE DOING AND PAY ATTENTION TO THIS BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO HURT FLORIDA.

WHAT CAN I DO? >>JACOB WILLIAMS: WELL, I THINK A FEW THINGS -- FEW THINGS YOU MENTIONED.

ONE IS, CERTAINLY YOUR CONGRESSMEN.

AND THE STATE -- THE U.S. SENATORS.

THEY CAN BE -- CAN BRING PRESSURE TO SAY WE WANT THE EPA BEFORE CONGRESS, BECAUSE THERE IS A -- THERE IS AN OVERREACH THAT IS GOING ON HERE. AND WE WANT TO BRING IT TO A HALT. THE EAR THING TO DO, FRANKLY, SUPPORTING THE STATE IF THEY WERE TO FILE THE LAWSUIT AGAINST THE US-EPA AND THE PRECEDENCE JUST CAME TO FRUITION A YEAR AGO. IF YOU REMEMBER, A YEAR AGO, A SUPREME COURT DECISION CALLED "WEST VIRGINIA AGAINST EPA." THE EARLY VERSION OF THE CO 2 RULE BACK IN 2011 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA AND OTHERS SUED THE EPA AND SAID YOU DID NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO WHAT YOU DID. THE SUPREME COURT AGREED WITH THEM UNDER THE MAJOR DOCTRINES QUESTION.

THE CHALLENGE IS THAT THE INDUSTRY CAN'T DEAL WITH -- THERE IS THIS LAW THAT IS ON THE BOOKS OR THIS RULE -- NOT A LAW, BECAUSE IT IS NOT PASS BY CONGRESS.

A RULE ON THE BOOKS. HOW DO YOU IGNORE IT AND TELL THE COURTS TO DEAL WITH IT? YOU GOT TO START MOVING THAT DIRECTION WHICH MEANS IT IS COSTING YOU MONEY TO START DEALING WITH IT. THE EARLIER WE CAN GET THIS

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RESOLVED AND PUT ASIDE. WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN, THERE SHOULD BE A DELAY IN THIS PROCESS BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO GET THE RULE IN PLACE BY SPRING OF 2024.

THEY WANT TO GET IT DONE BEFORE ANY CHANGES OF ELECTIONS OCCUR.

THE EPA'S GOAL. I WILL BE BLUNT.

THEY NEED TO GET ON THE BOOKS. IF PEOPLE WERE TO SLOW DOWN THE PROCESS SAYING WE ARE ALL FOR UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON, BUT WE WANT ALL THE PARTIES AT THE TABLE WORKING THIS OUT.

NOT THE US-EPA THAT HAS NO JURISDICTION OF THE COST OF IT ELECTRIC POWER. NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.

THAT WILL BE THE ASK, SO TO SPEAK.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THANK YOU FOR THAT ANSWER.

AND LET ME SAY THIS SO I WON'T GET THE -- YOU KNOW, MADAM MAYOR, SO I WON'T GET THE PHONE CALLS OR E-MAILS.

I AM NOT SAYING I AM AGAINST PROTECTING THE ENVIRONMENT FROM THE CO 2 EMISSIONS. I AM NOT SAYING THAT.

DON'T SEND ME THOSE E-MAILS. BUT AS A CITY COMMISSIONER, I HAVE A DUTY OR I SEE IT IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO HARM EVERY RESIDENT OF FORT PIERCE, EVERY RESIDENT OF FORT PIERCE, I NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM SITTING UP HERE FOR.

SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND I WILL BE MAKING SOME CALLS

TO SOME CONGRESSMEN. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU, SIR.

COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THANK YOU, MR. WILLIAMS FOR THE WHY UP DATE.

THE WAY I SURMISE, MANDATE FROM EPA THEY WANT CARBON EMISSIONS TO BE AT A CERTAIN LEVEL.

WE UTILIZE THAT SOURCE TO GENERATE ENERGY HERE.

LIKELIHOOD OF BEING ABLE TO ADDRESS OR EVEN GET TO THOSE LEVELS OF WHAT THEY MAY BE DEMAND SOMETHING SOMEWHAT UNREALISTIC WITHOUT COSTING A LOT OF MONEY.

AND DANGEROUS ALTERNATIVES TO THAT HYDROGEN AS YOU MENTIONED IF THERE WAS SUCH A CASE THERE. AND SO I -- I GET THAT, BUT I ALSO GET THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR WAY OF PRODUCING ENERGY NOW HAS -- CURRENTLY IS EFFICIENT AND ALLOWED FOR US TO MAINTAIN SOME PRICE STRUCTURE LEVELS THAT OUR CONSUMERS CAN APPRECIATE.

AND SO REALLY, YOU KNOW -- AND THEN WE LOOKED AT ALTERNATIVES.

PEOPLE SAY "SOLAR." WELL, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SPACE FOR SOLAR PANELS AND ENOUGH STUFF TO GENERATE THAT.

IS THAT THE GIST OF WHAT THE PRESENTATION IS ABOUT? AND SO AS I LOOK AT THAT IN TOTALITY, COUPLE OF THINGS COME TO MIND. AND MAYBE YOU EXPOUNDED ON THIS OR NOT, BUT THAT PUTS US IN A SIDEWAYS WHERE OBVIOUSLY IF THERE IS LITIGATION FROM THE RENEWABLES.

THEY WILL GO ONE WAY. THE OTHER COMPANIES GO ANOTHER WAY. SO WHAT -- WHAT ARE WE ANTICIPATING. WHAT DO WE THINK MAY BE ANY TYPE OF -- OF BLOW BACK FROM FEDERAL REGULATION, EPA, ETC., BASED ON WHERER. WHERE WE ARE GOING.

TIME TABLES WHAT DO YOU FORECAST WITH THAT?

>> THE BLOW BACK IS COMING FROM OTHER FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONSULTED AND WEREN'T.

ONE COMMISSIONER TOOK A VERY RARE STEP AND FILED HIS OWN COMMENTS AND SAID, WE WERE NOT CONSULTED AND WE ARE IN CHARGE OF THE ELECTRIC GRID AND ALL THAT.

WE WERE NEVER CONSULTED ON THIS. AND WE HAD MAJOR CONCERNS.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: TELL HIM FERKIS. >> THE FEDERAL REGULATORY COMMISSION. FERC, THAT REGULATES THE MAJOR POWER GRID AND THE INTERSTATE GAS PIPELINE SYSTEM HE.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: GOT IT.

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: KIND OF THE BACKBONE FOR ENERGY WITH ELECTRICITY. THEY WERE NOT CONSULTED IN A MAJOR WAY. AND I THINK THE RAMIFICATIONS ARE THAT YOU ARE ALSO PROBABLY GOING TO SEE EVEN THE SENATE COMMITTEE BY SENATOR MANKIN AND SENATOR BRAZOS.

FROM MICHIGAN AND WYOMING. AND BRING BEFORE A COMMITTEE IN A BIPARTISAN WAY AND SAY WHAT ARE YOU DOING BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T CONSULT WITH ALL THESE FOLKS. WE OUGHT TO HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS BECAUSE IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

THERE IS GOING TO BE BLOW BACK. THIS HAS DONE SO FAST AND INFORM COMMENTS DUE ON AUGUST 8. WELL, D.C. IS EMPTY IN AUGUST, ?

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: RIGHT.

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: NOBODY KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

COME BACK IN SEPTEMBER, AND I THINK YOU WILL SEE SOME BLOW

BACK START. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: HE GET THAT AND A POLITICAL JUGGERNAUT BACK AND FORTH BECAUSE THISREAKS, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, PARTISAN POLITICS AT THE

HIGHEST LEVEL. >>MAYOR HUDSON: NEWS FLASH.

[00:30:03]

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: NOT PARTISAN POLITICS TO HAVE AFFORDABLE

ENERGY FOR EVERYONE. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I AGREE. THAT IS WHY I WANT TO COME BACK.

WE WANT AFFORDABLE ENERGY FOR CITIZENS WHO NEED ENERGY TO

SURVIVE, RIGHT? >>JACOB WILLIAMS: YES.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: SOMEWHERE WE HAVE TO STRIKE A BALANCE. AND I GUESS MY COMMENTS AND THE CHALLENGE FOR US IS RIGHT NOW BEING REALLY MICROSCOPIC IS, I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE CITIZENS OF ST. LOUIS COUNTY, FORT PIERCE PARTICULARLY, AND WHAT ARE WE DOING.

ARE WE AHEAD OF THE GAME. ARE WE PRODUCING ENOUGH ENERGY TO OUR CONSUMERS HERE AND LET THE REST OF THEM DEAL WITH THAT, BUT RIGHT NOW I NEED TO START WITH THIS LITTLE PIECE OF THE PIE AND I WANT A GOOD UNDERSTANDING WHERE WE ARE WITH THIS. I KNOW WE WORKED WITH THE FLORIDA MOO THIS FALL POWER AUTHORITY AND PURCHASING ENERGY AND HEDGING AND ALL THAT. ANYTHING YOU CAN RELAY TO ME TODAY TO HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE DOING TO HEDGE OUR BET HERE TO MAKE SURE WE PRODUCE ENOUGH FOR THE TREASURE COAST?

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT AND THE BOARD AND JAVIER, OF COURSE, IS ON THE BOARD OF FMPA, MADE UP OF 33 CITIES.

THEY HAVE EMPOWERED THE AGENCY TO TELL THE STORY WHAT THIS MEANS FOR AFFORDABLE ELECTRICITY.

OUR JOB IS NOT TO SHAREHOLDERS BUT TO HAVE AFFORDABLE ENERGY AND RELIABLE FOR ALL OUR CITIZENS.

THAT IS A VERY POWERFUL STORY. I HAVE OPINION ON NATIONAL PODCASTS THE LAST TWO WEEKS. PROBABLY MORE TO COME ON THIS.

TAKING THIS ISSUE ON. IF YOU SEE SOME OF THE COMMENTS, WE ARE GATHERING AND PUTTING THIS OUT.

I MET A FLORIDA -- A STATEWIDE ENERGY CONFERENCE THIS AFTERNOON. IF YOU WANT TO WATCH SOME FUN, WE WILL TELL THE STORY THERE TO ALL THE ENERGY PROVIDERS.

BUT PART OF THAT IS TO RAISE AWARENESS AND TO POINT TO WHAT MAKES SENSE. SO JUST BY YOUR TEAM, JAVIER EMPOWERING US TO SAY, HEY, GO OUT AND PROTECT US, THAT -- THAT'S WHAT WE ARE HEARING TO DO.

WE ARE HERE TO PROVIDE YOU LOW-COST AND RELIABILITY POWER.

AND NOW OUR ABILITY TO DO THAT IS BEING HINDERED BY T THE U.S.-EPA. AND WE HAVE TO MAKE COMMENTS ABOUT IT AND WE HAVE TO BE OUT THERE TO TAKE THAT ON.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THANK YOU FOR THAT.

I DID SEE A SLIDE WHERE YOU DID -- THE UNITED STATES LOWER

CARBON EMISSIONS. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: YES.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: IS OUR STORY ALSO SAYING THAT WE ARE ALSO BEING PROTECTIVE OF THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND WHAT HAVE WE DONE TO LOWER OUR CARBON FOOTPRINT.

I THINK THAT NEEDS TO COME OUT, RIGHT, TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE EFFICIENCIES IN PLAIN OPERATIONS OF HOW WE HAVE DONE THAT AND SOMEHOW THAT STORY NEEDS TO COME OUT IN MY OPINION.

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: FMPA DROPPED OUR CARBON EMISSIONS BY 30%.

AND WILL DROP TO 50% REDUCTION BY 2030 AS WE CLOSE THE COAL PLANT UP IN ORLANDO AND WE WILL CONVERT TO GAS.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: OKAY.

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: WE ARE DOING ALL THOSE THINGS.

A LITTLE BIT OF SOLAR HELPS. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON:

GOT IT. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: WE ARE DOING THOSE THINGS AND NOT VIEWED AS GOOD ENOUGH.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I UNDERSTAND.

FOR THE PEOPLE LISTENING TO THIS.

NOT WANT TO IGNORE WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

SOME OF IT IS HELPFUL, BUT WE NEED TO TELL OUR STORY OF WHAT WE ARE DOING TO DO THAT IN MORE EFFICIENT PLANTS.

PUTTING IN A LITTLE SOLAR. YOU KNOW OTHER CREATIVE RENEWABLES THAT ARE OUT THERE. WIND, I DON'T KNOW.

BUT I THINK ALL OF THAT HELPS. AND --

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: I WILL MENTION ONE OTHER THING.

THE CLOSURE OF THE CONVERSION OF THE COAL PLANT TO NATURAL GAS.

THAT WAS THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION TOO.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: RIGHT.

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: NOT JUST AN ENVIRONMENTAL DECISION TO COST CUSTOMERS MONEY, IT WORKED FOR EVERYBODY.

WE WANT TO WORK FOR THOSE KIND OF SOLUTIONS.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: GOT IT.

THANK YOU, SIR. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I WANTED TO REITERATE.

WE -- MR. MIMMS AND I TALKED ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT THIS WAS.

BECAUSE WE HEARD THIS AT THIS CONFERENCE, AND I WANTED OUR COMMISSION TO KNOW ABOUT THIS. NOT SOMETHING TOP OF THE MIND.

PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THIS IS HAPPENING.

AND -- AND -- AND WE DO HAVE A STORY TO TELL.

ONE OF THE STORY ABOUT NATURAL GAS IS, IT IS CLEAN.

IT IS CLEAN. >>JACOB WILLIAMS: IT IS CLEAN.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: SINCE FLORIDA IS 75% RELIABLE ON -- I MEAN, THAT IS THE SOURCE OF IT. IT'S -- IT IS LIKE YOU -- BUT WE ARE ALREADY DOING SOMETHING FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WITH NATURAL GAS. THIS DOESN'T JUST EFFECT FMPA, BUT EFFECTS FLORIDA POWER AND LIGHT.

>>JACOB WILLIAMS: ALL OF THEM. RIGHT.

AND -- AND I HAVE GOT SLIDES ON IT.

I DIDN'T BRING IT IN. TO THE CLEAN PART.

FLORIDA HAS SOME OF THE BEST AIR QUALITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND YET WE HAVE ALL THESE GAS PLANTS ALL AROUND.

THE METROPOLITAN AREA OF KIND OF THE ORLANDO, CENTRAL FLORIDA, ONE OF THE CLEANEST -- BEST AIR QUALITY -- TOP 25 METROPOLITAN

[00:35:03]

AREAS FOR GOOD AIR QUALITY. IT HAS MANY GAS PLANTS, INCLUDING CANE ISLAND, COAL PLANTS AND AIR QUALITY IS GOOD BECAUSE MOST OF IT IS NATURAL GAS.

TO YOUR POINT, WE ARE DOING A GREAT JOB HERE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: RIGHT. RIGHT.

I AM GLAD YOU ARE HEAD OF THIS ORGANIZATION.

THE -- WHAT IS IT -- THE RELIABILITY COORDINATING COUNCIL BOARD -- WHATEVER IT IS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR DOING THAT AND FOR BEING HERE. I KNOW YOU ARE HEADING DOWN TO SOUTH FLORIDA TO SPREAD THE WORD.

AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU SHARING THIS WITH THIS COMMISSION. BECAUSE WE HEARD IT HERE.

IN EIGHT YEARS, SOME OF YOU WILL STILL BE UP HERE.

SO --

REALLY? >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: OKAY. [LAUGHTER]

>>MAYOR HUDSON: RIGHT? SO --

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: COMMISSIONER GAINES IS IN SHOCK DOWN THERE. NEWS TO HIM.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU, MR. CISNEROS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> OKAY.

[b. Update on the City Attorney recruitment efforts presented by Bob Slavin of Slavin Management Consultants]

THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS AN UPDATE ON THE CITY ATTORNEY RECRUITMENT EFFORTS PRESENTED BY BOB SLAVIN OF SLAVIN MANAGEMENT

CONSULTANT. >> MR. JOHNSON, ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY TO LEAD IN OR LET HIM START.

>> NO, MA'AM. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WELCOME, MR.

SLAVIN. >>BOB SLAVIN: THANK YOU --

>> MADAM MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS, I DID SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR THIS POSITION RECENTLY. SO BECAUSE OF THAT, I AM GOING TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM THE ROOM WHILE YOU ARE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION AND I WILL COME BACK IN ON THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

APPRECIATE THAT. >>BOB SLAVIN: MADAM MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. I AM BOB SLAVIN, WITH SLAVIN MANAGEMENT CONSULTANTS. AS YOU KNOW, WE PROVIDED A SECOND OR REDO OF THE CITY ATTORNEY SEARCH.

AND THE REASON WE DID THAT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE A PROVISION IN OUR ORIGINAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU FOLKS THAT IF THE JOB -- THAT WE FILLED BECAME VACANT WITHIN A TWO-YEAR PERIOD, WE WOULD DO IT AGAIN. AND WE HAVE DONE THAT.

BASICALLY THE PROCESS WE USED THIS TIME WAS EXTREMELY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE USED THE FIRST TIME. BUT WE DID A LOT MORE OUTREACH, BECAUSE WE WERE NOT GETTING THE QUANTITY WE WERE GETTING THE LAST TIME. AND THE REASON FOR THAT, I THINK, WAS THE JOB WAS -- EVERYBODY WHO WAS OUT THERE MADE UP THEIR MINDS TO APPLY OR NOT TO APPLY.

BUT SO WITH THAT IN MIND, WE GOT OVER -- EIGHT RESPONSES TO OUR RECRUITMENT OF WHICH SIX FOLKS APPEARED TO BE QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB. MET THE QUALIFICATIONS.

THOSE FOLKS WERE PROVIDED WITH A QUESTIONNAIRE.

A FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL QUESTIONNAIRE THAT THEY WERE ASKED TO RESPOND TO. AND AS -- BOTTOM LINE, WE ENDED UP WITH FIVE FOLKS THAT ARE REPRESENTED TO YOU IN A REPORT THAT I WANT TO LEAVE WITH YOU. THOSE FIVE, MANY -- ANOTHER POINT I WANT TO MAKE IS IN THIS SECOND ROUND -- RECRUITMENT EFFORT, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO EXPRESSED AN INTEREST OF THE JOB ARE PEOPLE WHO KNEW YOU AND PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW.

AND THIS TELLS ME THAT THE CITY HAS A VERY POSITIVE REPUTATION PARTICULARLY AMONG FOLKS WHO WILL BE INTERESTED IN THE CITY ATTORNEY POSITION. I WILL GIVE WITH YOU THIS REPORT. AND I AM GOING TO ASK YOU TO READ IT. THE SUBSTANCE OF IT ARE THE RESPONSES FROM THE CANDIDATES TO THAT QUESTIONNAIRE.

WE HAVE NOT PROVIDED OR DONE ANY BACKGROUND WORK ON THESE CANDIDATES -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY VOICE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ALLERGIES. >>BOB SLAVIN: MA'AM, PROBABLY.

I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. SO NEXT STEP WILL DO BACKGROUND WORK. WE DON'T DO BACKGROUND WORK ON PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE NOD INTERESTED IN.

I WILL LIKE TO LEAVE THE REPORT WITH YOU.

YOU FOLKS -- I KNOW YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT AMONGST YOURSELVES. BUT AT SOME POINT -- NICK HAS BEEN HELPING ME WITH THIS PROCESS AND SOMEHOW THROUGH HIS EFFORTS, I NEED TO KNOW WHICH OF THESE PEOPLE YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. AND WHICH MAYBE YOU ARE NOT.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE ONLY FIVE OF THEM IN THE REPORT.

AND WITH YOUR INTERIM CLERK -- I MEAN, ATTORNEY, THERE IS SIX.

AND IT DOES NOT -- AND I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, THAT WE BEGIN TO DO BACKGROUND WORK ON ALL SIX AND WE CAN ALWAYS NARROW THE GROUP TO A SMALLER NUMBER.

MY CONCERN IS THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THESE CANDIDATES TO ME LOOKS PRETTY WELL QUALIFIED IS BEING SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED FOR ANOTHER JOB. AND SHE KIND OF -- AS I UNDERSTAND HER MOTIVES, SHE IS KIND OF HOLDING THAT -- SHE IS

[00:40:04]

TRYING TO STAY AVAILABLE FOR YOU FOLKS.

SO I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS.

ALLOW ME TO BEGIN THE BACKGROUND WORK ON THE CANDIDATES WHICH REQUIRES A WRITTEN AUTHORIZATION FROM THE CANDIDATE.

AND WE USE A PROFESSIONAL SERVICE TO DO A LOT OF THAT WORK. THERE IS SOME DOS IT.

AND THE COST LAB COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS A CANDIDATE, MAYBE DEPENDING ON -- WHAT IS -- WITH AN ATTORNEY, COULDN'T BE MUCH MORE THAN A COUPLE HUNDRED OF DOLLARS.

THE VARIABLES HOW MANY PLACES THEY LIVED AND HOW MANY COURT RECORDS -- COURT MUNICIPAL AND COUNTY COURTS THEY HAD ACCESS TO IN ORDER TO GET THE RESULTS THEY NEED.

SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE GO -- THAT YOU ALLOW ME TO GO AHEAD AND GET THE BACKGROUND WORK COMPLETED ON THESE FOLKS.

AND THEN PROVIDE YOU INFORMATION THROUGH NICK OF THE RESULTS OF THAT. AND SET UP INTERVIEWS.

NOW SARAH APPLIED ON SATURDAY. I HAD HER RESUME.

AND SHE HAS NOT COMPLETED THE QUESTIONNAIRE.

I ALSO RECOMMEND THAT YOU LET ME ALLOW HER TO COMPLETE IT.

AND WE WILL GET IT TO HER TODAY. THE -- AND -- AND I THINK SHE -- BASED ON THE RESUME SHE PROVIDED SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE GROUP. YOU WILL SEE IN THE FIVE CANDIDATES, KIND AN ECLECTIC GROUP.

THEY ARE ALL MEMBERS OF THE FLORIDA BAR.

ONE OF THEM IS PHYSICALLY LOCATED IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON AT THE MOMENT. HE HAS PUBLIC LAW ATTORNEY EXPERIENCE. AND HE HAS BEEN A CITY COMMISSIONER PASCO, WASHINGTON IF I RECALL.

SO HE UNDERSTANDS MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT.

AND HE IS VERY INTERESTED IN COMING HERE FOR SEVERAL REASONS, PRIMARILY FAMILY-RELATED REASONS.

SO IT WOULD BE -- ALL THE REST OF THEM HERE IN FLORIDA AND AS I MENTIONED SOME OF THEM YOU WILL RECOGNIZE AS -- AS PEOPLE YOU KNOW. THE -- THE REPORT IS -- I AM

JUST -- >>MAYOR HUDSON: PLEASE GIVE IT

TO MISS COX. >>BOB SLAVIN: MAY BE NOR THERE THAN YOU NEED. I DON'T THINK ANY MORE WORK ON THIS WILL RESULT IN ANY MORE RESUMES.

THE POSITION IS OPEN UNTIL FILLED, BUT WE HAVE REALLY WORKED THIS STATE VERY EXTENSIVELY.

AND WE DID A NATIONAL RECRUITMENT, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE MEMBERS OF THE FLORIDA BAR THAT MAY NOT BE LIVING HERE NOW.

SO THAT IS WHAT -- THAT IS HOW WE WERE ABLE TO INTEREST THE GENTLEMAN FROM WASHINGTON IN THE JO JOB. I AM CONCERNED IF WE LET THIS THING GO ON MUCH FURTHER WE WILL LOSE THE RESPONSE WE HAVE, AT LEAST IN A LOT OF THESE CASES THESE PEOPLE HAVE QUITE WELL QUALIFIED AND HAVE FLORIDA MUNICIPAL ATTORNEY EXPERIENCE.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.

SO -- >>MAYOR HUDSON: QUESTIONS OF MR. SLAVIN. ANY QUESTIONS? HAVE YOU TALKED TO EACH ONE OF THESE PERSONALLY.

>>BOB SLAVIN: I HAVE PERSONALLY TALKED TO THEM.

WHAT I WANT TO APOLOGIZE FOR, THIS DOCUMENT -- I PREPARED IT ON THURSDAY. TOOK IT TO THE OFFICE ON FRIDAY AND COPIED AND -- AND BOUND ON FRIDAY, BUT IT WAS NOT -- WHAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT, I SAW SUMMER ROARS IN IT THIS MORNING.

AND IT WAS NOT PROOFED. IT IS TYPICALLY PROOFED.

BUT IT HAS THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I -- I GUESS YOU WANT SOME DRECTION ON PROCEEDING ON

BACKGROUND. >>BOB SLAVIN: YES.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ANYBODY HERE WHO OBJECTS TO THAT?

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I THINK WE SHOULD DO IT

IMMEDIATELY. >>BOB SLAVIN: WILL START IT

TODAY OF. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: OF ALL

THE CANDIDATES. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST. IF THERE IS AN INTERNAL CANDIDATE. THAT INTERNAL CANDIDATE IS ALWAYS INCLUDED IN THE MIX. SOUNDS LIKE YOU WERE GOING TO DO THAT ANYWAY SINCE SARA ANNOUNCED --

>>BOB SLAVIN: WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A STRETCH AT ALL.

QUALIFICATIONS ARE SUCH THAT SHE QUALIFIES.

SO -- >>MAYOR HUDSON: RIGHT.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD, MAYOR HUDSON, IS THAT I SHARE -- I SHARE YOUR CONCERNS RELATIVE TO TIMING. AND I GET IT.

GOVERNMENT WORKS SLIGHTLY SLOWER THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR; HOWEVER, IN THIS INSTANCE, GET FOCUSED ON THIS.

[00:45:02]

LET THEM COMPLETE THEIR TASK. GET IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE SO WE DON'T HAVE THESE CANDIDATES PEEL OFF AS THEY ARE POTENTIALLY ACCEPTING OTHER POSITIONS.

THE ONLY THING I AM SUGGESTING ONCE YOUR WORK IS DONE, IT NEEDS TO BE BACK HERE AND ON OUR AGENDA AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE.

>>BOB SLAVIN: THE ANY OTHER COMMENTS I WILL SAY IS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN FISH BOWLS.

I DON'T THINK WE WILL FIND ANYTHING THAT WILL KEEP US FROM MOVING FORWARD. ONE OF THE CANDIDATES IS BEING SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED FOR ANOTHER JOB.

IF IN FACT SHE ENDS UP IN A SITUATION, OF COURSE SHE HAS TO MAKE A DECISION, I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO ALERT TO YOU THE FACT AND SHE IS NOT THAT FAR AWAY. IT WOULDN'T TAKE MUCH TO BRING HER AND OTHERS IN AND ANY OFFER OF EMPLOYMENT WILL HAVE TO BE DEPENDENT ON SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THE BACKGROUND WORK. BUT I THINK THAT -- THAT -- THE CHANCES SHE WOULD NOT PASS THAT SCRUTINY ARE PRETTY SLIM.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: REALISTICALLY, WHAT TYPE -- WHAT TYPE OF TIMELINE DO YOU THINK WE ARE LOOKING AT TO BE ABLE TO

ACCOMPLISH THAT? >>MAYOR: I THINK IT'S -- I DON'T KNOW, I THINK IT COULD BE PRETTY QUICK.

I THINK IT COULD BE PRETTY QUICK.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: MY WHOLE CONCERN IS LOSING A REALLY GREAT CANDIDATE BECAUSE WE CAN'T -- BECAUSE OF THE NATURAL PROCESS THAT IT NEEDS TO TAKE. THAT WE CAN SPEED UP AS MUCH AS WE CAN AND CAN'T TAKE ENOUGH CONTROL.

A 60-DAY SCENARIO OR 30-DAY SCENARIO.

THAT IS WHAT I AM GETTING AT. I DON'T WANT TO BE IN A POSITION OF JEOPARDY. AS RAPIDLY AS POSSIBLE IS THE

BEST WAY TO PUT IT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THAT IS THE BEST WE CAN -- AND HE UNDERSTANDS IT. HE IS THE ONE THAT IS TELLING US ABOUT THE URGENCY. AND I THINK THAT OUR STAFF, MR. MIMMS AND OTHER CHARTER OFFICERS UNDERSTAND THAT.

WITH AN INTERNAL CANDIDATE NOW, I THINK WE NEED TO SERIOUSLY LOOK AT THIS AND MOVE QUICKLY. WE HAVE A COMPLETE POOL NOW.

>>BOB SLAVIN: YOU DO -- YOU WILL KNOW.

YOU WILL RECOGNIZE SOME OF THESE FOLKS.

AND YOU WILL KNOW THEM. >>MAYOR HUDSON: IF THEY ARE THE ONES YOU HAVE GIVEN US ALREADY, I HAVE LOOKED AT THOSE, RIGHT? I HAVE LOOKED AT THOSE. I WILL BE INTERESTED IN -- ARE THE THINGS THEY FILLED OUT IN HERE, ARE THEY --

>>BOB SLAVIN: THE QUESTIONNAIRE. THE FIRST ONE THE RESUME OF ON THE FIRST CANDIDATE WAS NOT CLEAR.

I HAD TO SPEND TIME WITH HIM ON THE PHONE TO CREATE A SUMMARY RESUME, WHICH IS IN THERE. BUT ONE OF THE CONCERNS I HAVE ABOUT THAT REPORT IS THAT THE RESUME HE PROVIDED, WHICH IS NOT IN THERE, HIS COVER LETTER IS IN THERE TWICE AND THE RESUME IS NOT. THE SUMMARY RESUME IS MORE COMPLETE THAN THE ONE HE PROVIDED ANYWAY.

SO A LITTLE LESS INFORMATION. >>MAYOR HUDSON: I THINK WE HAD SOME INFORMATION ALREADY. MR. MIMMS FAVE US APPLICATION

REPORTS. >> FIVE.

HE DIRECTED FIVE. >>BOB SLAVIN: YOU KNOW, I THINK BECAUSE YOU KNOW THEM, IT TAKES THE QUESTION OF REALLY AWAY THAT -- THAT YOU ARE MEETING PEOPLE YOU NEVER SAW -- NEVER MET BEFORE. YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THEM AND HOW THEY FUNCTION. SOME OF THEM HAVE WORKED RIGHT

HERE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: RIGHT, EXACTLY.

>> MAYOR. >>MAYOR HUDSON: ANY OTHER DIRECTION FROM THIS COMMISSION FOR MR. SLAVIN.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YES, MA'AM?

>> DO WE WANT -- I KNOW TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.

WHILE HE IS HERE, DO WE WANT TO THINK ABOUT -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NEXT STEP SCHEDULING INDIVIDUAL INTERVIEWS OR SCHEDULING A SPECIAL -- BECAUSE YOU HAVE DONE IT BEFORE AT A SPECIAL MEETING. OR DO WE WANT TO FOCUS ON JUST LETTING -- HAVING YOU -- NARROWING THEM TO HIM, LETTING HIM KNOW WHO YOU ARE INTERESTED IN.

TIMING-WISE, WE ARE -- WE ARE GETTING INTO TRAVEL TIME AND

BUDGET TIME AND -- >>MAYOR HUDSON: YES.

>> -- IF WE WANTED TO SCHEDULE A SPECIAL MEETING PRIOR TO OUR AUGUST 21 MEETING, I MEAN, THAT WILL BE A VIABLE OPTION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THAT IS A WEEK. >> THAT IS NEXT MONDAY.

I DON'T KNOW HOW QUICKLY YOU WANT TO MOVE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT USUALLY BY THE END OF THE MONTH, PEOPLE RESERVE FOR PERSONAL TIME --

>> WHEN WE HAVE SOME THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE HERE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY. WELL, SO IT WOULD BE --

>> LABOR DAY. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WHAT IS YOUR

PLEASURE, GENTLEMEN? >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: RIGHT

AFTER LABOR DAY. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MAKES SENSE, RIGHT AFTER TAMPA LABOR DAY IN.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: AFTER THE FIRST OF SEPTEMBER AS EARLY AS WE CAN

DO IT. >>BOB SLAVIN: WE ARE LOOKING FOR

[00:50:02]

A DAY IN WHICH YOU CAN INTERVIEW ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ON THE SAME DAY? IS THAT --

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THAT IS THE WAY WE HAVE DONE IT IN THE PAST.

THAT WAS IDEAL. >> THOSE WERE ONE ON ONE INTERVIEWS. WHAT WE NEED TO DECIDE, DO YOU WANT TO DO ONE ON ONE INTERVIEWS PRIOR TO THE GROUP -- PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC INTERVIEWS? BOBSLEIGH FWHOBZ FLORIDA, THAT

MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WHAT WE DID BEFORE. ONE ON ONE AND CAME INTO A

SESSION FOR A SPECIAL MEETING. >>BOB SLAVIN: PARTICULARLY WITH ATTORNEY, I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

BECAUSE THE PUBLIC INTERVIEW IS GREAT FOR TRANSPARENCY AND FOR THE COMMUNITIES TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE CANDIDATES, BUT IT IS NOT

GREAT FOR CANDOR. >>MAYOR HUDSON: NO, IT ISN'T.

ISN'T. RIGHT, EXACTLY.

>>BOB SLAVIN: OKAY. I WILL GET --

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WE WILL DO THE BEST WE CAN.

>>BOB SLAVIN: IF I HEAR ANYTHING THAT WOULD CAUSE ME TO REALIZE THAT WE ARE IN TIGHTER TIMELINE THAN I HOPE, THEN WE CAN -- I THINK WE CAN WORK WITH THAT. I AM CONCERNED OF THE ONE CANDIDATE, BUT WE WILL FIND OUT --

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU ARE WORKING THROUGH MR. MIMMS. HE WILL KEEP US POSTED SO THAT WILL BE GREAT.

>>BOB SLAVIN: YES. HE HAS BEEN A LOT OF HELP.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ARE WE GOOD? THANK YOU, SIR.

[c. Presentation and recommendation by the Parking Committee regarding proposed parking restrictions at the Citrus Avenue Kayak Launch.]

>>BOB SLAVIN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ALL RIGHTY. >> NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS PRESENTATION AND RECOMMENDATION BY THE PARKING COMMITTEE REGARDING PROPOSED PARK RESTRICTIONS AT THE CITRUS

AVENUE IF KAYAK LAUNCH. >>MAYOR HUDSON: LOOK WHO IS HERE, MR. ANDREWS ARE, WELCOME. MR. SHEA JOHNSON.

ANYTHING TO LEAD INTO THIS TOPIC?

>> NO, MA'AM. MR. ANDREWS.

>> MR. ANDREWS: COMMISSIONERS, I AM SURE YOU ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH -- THIS IS CITRUS AVENUE WHERE THE KAYAK PARK WAS CONSTRUCTED. AND WE HAVE A SMALL PARKING LOT THERE. AND THE PARKING COMMITTEE HAS RECEIVED A LOT OF COMMENTS, COMPLAINTS FROM THE PUBLIC, AND IT HAS BEEN AT THE -- AT THE COMMITTEE'S MEETING ON DIFFERENT OCCASIONS THAT THERE IS NO PLACE TO PARK FOR THE PEOPLE THAT UTILIZE THE KAYAK LAUNCH. IT'S MOSTLY TAKEN UP BY CARS THAT ARE PARKED THERE ALL DAY LONG.

AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS PICTURE, IT USUALLY FILLS UP IN THE MORNING.

AND THEY ARE THERE UNTIL LATE AFTERNOON.

CURRENTLY, WE HAVE THE -- WHAT IS IT, THE SIX REGULAR PARKING SPACES AND THE HANDICAPPED. AND THEIR PROPOSAL WAS TO INSTALL SOME SIGNS PROHIBITING ALL-DAY PARKING TO ALLOW PEOPLE THAT UTILIZE THE -- THE LAUNCH TO UNLOAD THEIR KAYAKS AND WHATEVER. SO IT WAS DISCUSSION AND BROUGHT UP THAT -- TO PUT UP SOME SIGNS TO -- I DON'T KNOW, TO -- TO PROHIBIT THE PEOPLE FROM PARKING THERE ALL DAY.

AND I -- THE COMMITTEE APPROVED THIS WORDAGE.

AND THEY WANTED TO BRING IT TO THE COMMISSION TO SEE THEIR OPINION AND IF THEY CAN GET THE SIGNS INSTALLED.

SO THIS WAS -- THIS WAS PRESENTED AT THE MAY PARKING COMMITTEE. AND MR. MIMMS SUGGESTED THAT I BRING IT BEFORE THE COMMISSION FOR YOUR INPUT.

THAT IS -- >>MAYOR HUDSON: SO THIS IS A RIVER ACCESS. NOT A PARK.

IT IS A RIVER ACCESS. KIND OF LIKE A BEACH ACCESS.

>> MR. ANDREWS: CORRECT, CORRECT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU GO TO THE BEACH PORPOISE PARK.

YOU PARK FOR SEVERAL HOURS BUT RARELY YOU STAY ALL DAY LONG.

SO THIS IS KIND OF THE SAME SITUATION AND PROBABLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IS, EITHER ST. ANDREWS OR THE COURT EMPLOYEES ARE PROBABLY PARKING THERE BECAUSE THEY WORK ALL DAY LONG, YEAH.

RIG RIGHT.

>> MR. ANDREWS: MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR SOMEONE WHO DOES WANT TO KAYAK, BECAUSE IT IS THE CLOSEST PROXIMITY TO UNLOAD.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: RIGHT, RIGHT. ANY -- COMMISSIONERS, ANY

[00:55:06]

COMMENTS? >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I HAVE TO SUGGEST THAT THIS WAS DISCUSSED AT LENGTH AT THE PARKING COMMITTEE AS TO PEST WAY TO MANAGE THIS ASSET.

AND THIS WAS KIND OF THE CULMINATION OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS. YOU KNOW, WE ARE TRYING -- WE ARE TRYING TO TURN OVER PARKING. GET IT MOVING.

AND THE ASSUMPTION IS THE COURT OR THE SCHOOL THAT ARE CAPITALIZING THOSE SPACES LITERALLY EIGHT HOURS A DAY, MAKING THE LOT FULL. SO THERE IS -- THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS. ONE, WE CAN DEPLOY THE SAME PARKING REQUIREMENTS AS WE HAVE DOWNTOWN.

TWO-HOUR LIMITATIONS OR SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES OR SOMETHING OF THIS NATURE. WE ARE JUST TRYING TO GET THE LONG-TERM PARKING OUT OF THE LOT.

AS SIMPLE AS THAT. WHATEVER THE BEST SOLUTION TO THAT IS WHAT WE WANT TO ACCOMPLISH HERE.

>>. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR. THANK YOU, MR. ANDREWS.

MY CONCERN WHEN I READ IT, IN MY OPINION, NOT DESCRIPTIVE ENOUGH WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SAY. IF THIS IS FOR KAYAK LAUNCHING, I THINK WE HAVE TO PUT A TIME LIMIT ON IT.

I DON'T KNOW, SOME PEOPLE COULD BE OUT THERE ALL DAY KAYAKING, BUT EITHER A TWO-HOUR OR THREE HOURS, IT NEEDS TO BE STATED AND THE PURPOSE IN MY OPINION WHAT THIS PARKING IS FOR.

A LOT OF PEOPLE PROBABLY DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT WE HAVE A KAYAK LAUNCH THAT YOU WALK DOWN THERE. UNLESS YOU ARE INTO KAYAKING, YOU HAVE NO IDEA THE INVESTMENT THAT WENT IN TO BUILD THAT RAMP FOR PEOPLE TO GET THEIR KAYAKS IN AND LAUNCH.

I THINK IT IS A GOOD START. I THINK THIS WILL, IN MY OPINION, KIND OF FOLD INTO THE REST OF THE DOWNTOWN CODE ENFORCEMENT DETAIL THAT WORKS THAT SITUATION ON THE WEEKDAY WHEN THEY ARE DOWN -- I THINK IT IS TWO-HOUR PARKING AND THEY ARE MONITORING THAT, RIGHT. SO THE ENFORCEMENT WILL BE A CONCERN TOO. I THINK IF SIGNAGE CLEARLY STATED THIS IS RESTRICTED PARKING FOR KAYAK UTILIZATION AND SOMETIMES WE NEED TO SPECIFY AND TALK TO THE KAYAKERS.

I DON'T KNOW. EITHER TWO HOURS OR THREE HOURS WILL BE YOUR LIMIT, RIGHT, WE NEED FEEDBACK WHAT IT ENTAILS FOR KAYAKERS TO GET A GOOD WORKOUT TO COME OUT AND DO THEIR THING AND COME BACK. I THINK WE WILL PROBABLY SEE A

CHANGE AT THAT POINT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: I WOULD TAKE THE WORD "PARK" OUT OF THERE. IT IS NOT A PARK.

RESTRICTED PARKING, KAYAK USE ONLY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I THINK THAT WILL WORK FINE, ACTUALLY. TRY THAT AND SEE IF WHICH HAVE

TRACTION WITH IT. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: YOU HAVE TO PUT A TIME. YOU HAVE TO SAY THREE HOURS.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I DON'T KNOW EITHER.

>> THAT WAS. THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AT THE PARKING COMMITTEE. THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE TWO HOUR, THAT WAS NOT LONG EN ENOUGH. AND THE OTHER -- THE OTHER ITEM WAS, WELL, IF SOMEONE GOES FISHING AND THEY DON'T HAVE THEIR KAYAK ARE THEY ALLOWED TO PARK THERE?

>>MAYOR HUDSON: RIGHT. THAT'S TRUE, YEAH.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: WHICH IS AGAIN MY COMMENT.

YOU GO BACK TO THE PICTURE. YOUR PICTURE -- OF COURSE THIS IS CLOSE TO THE FISHING PIER. IT IS RELATIVELY CLOSE, BUT -- BUT RIGHT BELOW AT THE END OF THE STREET IS WHERE THE WALK STEPS ARE TO GO DOWN, CORRECT, FOR THE KAYAK LAUNCH.

>> MR. ANDREWS: RIGHT AT THE END THERE.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: THAT'S WHY THE SIGN HAS TO BE SPECIFIC THAT THIS IS FOR KAYAK PARKING OR LAUNCHING OF YOUR

KAYAK. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I

AGREE WITH THAT. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: HAS TO BE NOR TO WORK, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF INVESTMENT TO GET THAT RAMP BUILT.

AND IT WAS DEDICATED. AND WHATEVER IT WAS BY THE PEOPLE THAT WANTED TO SEE IT. AND, IN MY OPINION, THE FISHING PIER IS TOTALLY SEPARATE FROM THIS.

THIS IS JUST FOR THE KAYAK LAUNCH.

IF WE ARE GOING TO BE SPECIFIC ABOUT THIS, I THINK WE WILL SEE A CHANGE IN THAT AREA OVER THERE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: COMMISSIONER GAINES.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, I LEARNED SOMETHING NEW. I AM ONE OF THE RESIDENTS THAT DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD A KAYAK LAUNCH.

SO I LEARNED SOMETHING NEW TODAY.

BUT GOING INTO THE FISHING, OTHER THAN FISHING THERE, WHAT ABOUT THE KAYAKERS WHO ARE OUT FISHING MORE THAN TWO HOURS, MORE THAN THREE HOURS. SO IT GOES BACK INTO, LIKE YOU SAID, SOMETHING WITH THE KAYAK -- HAS TO BE SOMETHING SPECIFIC IN -- IN THE SIGN, BUT I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT.

KAYAKING JUST TO GO GET YOUR EXERCISE.

BUT WHAT IF I AM KAYAKING AND FISHING.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: IN MY OPINION, THREE HOURS.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: GIVE THEM THREE HOURS TO DO IT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: OR WHATEVER IT IS.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: TRY THREE HOURS.

IF IT DOESN'T WORK, WE CAN FIX IT AND CHANGE IT.

I THINK THAT IS A GREAT SOLUTION, COMMISSIONER.

THE THREE HOURS IS A LOT OF LATITUDE.

IF WE GET COMPLAINT THAT IT IS INSUFFICIENT --

[01:00:01]

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: BASICALLY CHANGE THREE TIMES A DAY, 3, 6, 9, EIGHT HOURS IN THE DAY, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LONGER THAN THAT. EARLY MORNING, MIDDAY, MID AFTERNOON, LATE AFTERNOON. THAT IS JUST MY OPINION.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: HOLD ON, NOW.

LET'S THINK THIS. IF I KAYAK AND I FOUND MY HONEY HOLE -- HONEY HOLE. AND I AM CATCHING -- CATCHING SOME NICE FISH, I AM NOT GOING TO WANT TO COME BACK IN JUST TO MOVE MY CAR SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GO BACK AND MAKE SURE NOBODY ELSE GETS MY -- ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE KAYAKING HAND THIS IS WHAT THE PARK -- THAT IS WHAT THE PARK WAS DEDICATED FOR.

THAT IS WHAT THE LAUNCH WAS DEDICATED FOR.

THAT'S ALL I AM SAYING, GUYS. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU FIND THAT ONE LITTLE SPOT WHERE -- JUST BEFORE THE BAIT HITS THE WATER. FISHING FROM YOUR KAYAK.

FINAL JUST TRYING TO SAY, WITH WE TRYING TO USE THAT SPACE JUST FOR KAYAKERS. OR ARE WE TRYING TO LIMIT EVERYBODY FROM USING THAT SPACE. THAT IS MY CONCERN.

IF IT IS JUST FOR KAYAKERS, OKAY.

AND, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT GOES INTO HOW WE GO INTO MONITORING IF IT

IS JUST FOR KAYAKERS. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THAT WAS THE WHOLE QUESTION THAT THE COMMITTEE SPENT AN HOUR DISCUSSING. YOU ARE A ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THAT IS WHY THE SIGN DID NOT HAVE SUGGESTED TIME LIMITS JUST TO SAY BASICALLY YOU ARE HERE TO USE IT FOR KAYAKING.

I WOULD SUGGEST THAT LANGUAGE BE A GOOD ADDITION TO THE SIGNAGE.

AND -- AGAIN, WE CAN TRY IT WITHOUT BRACKETING THE TIMELINES. SEE IF IT IS BEING UTILIZED FOR KAYAK USE. IF WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE

TIMELINES, WE CAN MODIFY. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: COMMISSIONER BRODERICK, I UNDERSTAND.

QUICK QUESTION. I SEE THEM -- I DIDN'T KNOW.

I AM NOT ASHAMED TO SAY I DIDN'T KNOW.

KAYAK, RIGHT. DO THEY HAVE TO GET SOME TYPE OF PERMIT? DO THEY HAVE TO GET SOME TYPE OF NOTIFICATION WITH THE CITY? COULD THERE BE SOMETHING THAT YOU SAY, HEY, NOT ENOUGH COST, NOT ANOTHER COST, BUT SOME TYPE OF PERMIT OR SOME TYPE OF STICKER ON YOUR CAR SAYING, "I AM A KAYAKER." THE CITY KNOWS I AM A KAYAKER AND PARK THERE? I AM JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT FAIR TO USE THIS PART OF THE -- THAT WE -- THAT THE CITY SPENT ALL THIS EFFORT AND MONEY INTO MAKING A KAYAK LAUNCH THAT IS WHAT I AM BEING TOLD. I WILL PROBABLY LEAVE HERE TO LOOK AT THIS LAUNCH SITE BECAUSE I PROBABLY DRIVEN BY IT THOUSAND TIMES AND NEVER SAW IT. MY THING IS, ARE WE NOW HARMING OR HURTING THE KAYAKER WHO WE PUT THAT THERE FOR? I DON'T KNOW. I CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION LIKE COMMISSIONER JOHNSON WANTS. I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG A KAYAKER GOES OUT. I AM NOT GOING IN A KAYAK BECAUSE I AM AFRAID WHAT IS UNDER THAT WATER.

I AM JUST BEING HONEST WITH YOU. I AM JUST NOT DOING IT.

BUT -- SO I DON'T KNOW. IF YOU WANT TO START WITH -- IF YOU WANT TO START WITH THE THREE-HOUR TIME LIMIT, I AM FINE -- I AM FINE WITH THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS FAIR TO KAYAKER WHO ARE REALLY OUT KAYAKING INSTEAD OF PEOPLE JUST PARKING THERE. THAT IS MY CONCERN.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THE FLIPSIDE OF THAT, YOU JUST REGULATE IT TO KAYAK-PARKING ONLY AND DON'T PUT IN A TIME LIMIT. THOSE ARE THE TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT. THAT IS WHAT THE PARKING COMMITTEE WRESTLED WITH TOO. TIME LIMIT OR NO TIME LIMIT.

THE USE ISSUE IS NOT EVEN A DISCUSSION POINT FURTHER.

IT IS FOR KAYAKS. FOLKS THAT WANT TO GO KAYAK.

THE REAL THING IS DO WE TIME LIMIT IT OR NOT.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: MY ONLY QUESTION IS HOW DO I KNOW OR SOMEONE WHO IS GOING OUT TO ENFORCE THIS SIGN KNOW THAT THAT

TRUCK OR THAT CAR IS A KAYAKER? >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: WE

DON'T. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: WE DON'T. BUT THE SIGN -- IT'S -- IT IS -- THE CAR WILL BE PARKED THERE FOR THREE HOURS PERIOD.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: OKAY. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I THINK THE ENFORCEMENT COMES AT THAT POINT.

AS I UNDERSTOOD IT, MR. ANDREWS, PEOPLE MAY WANT TO GO KAYAKING.

BECAUSE THIS IS A LAUNCH POINT. CARS ARE THERE ALL DAY LONG AND INTO AVAILABILITY FOR PERSON TO PARK AND GET THAT KAYAK OFF THEIR CAR AND OFF THEIR TRUCK AND PUT IT IN THE WATER.

RIGHT. MAYOR BHARZ WHAT WE KNOW, THE ONES THAT ARE STAYING THERE ALL DAY ARE NOT KAYAKING.

THEY ARE WORKING. THAT IS WHAT WE DO KNOW.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: MADAM MAYOR, I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I TRULY UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE DOING.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE KNOW THAT THE ONES THAT ARE THERE NOW ARE NOT KAYAKING. MY PROBLEM IS, ONCE WE PUT THIS SIGN UP, I DON'T WANT TO PUNISH A KAYAKER FOR BEING OUT THERE MORE THAN THREE HOURS IF HE IS ENJOYING IT.

[01:05:01]

THAT IS MY CONCERN. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW -- I DON'T KNOW HOW TO -- I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX THAT SITUATION BECAUSE -- I AM NOT A KAYAKER. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG A KAYAKER GOES OUT. THAT IS MY CONCERN.

SO ARE WE -- ARE WE NOW -- SO -- HOW I AM LOOKING AT THIS.

WE ARE NOW LIMITING THE USE OF A PERSON'S KAYAK IN THIS -- THAT

IS PARKED THERE TO THREE HOURS. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: IF YOU JUST REMOVE THAT PORTION OF IT AND ONCE AGAIN, IF WE GET FEEDBACK IT IS A PROBLEM WE CAN LIMIT IT FURTHER.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: NO TIME IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

NO TIME, IS THAT WHAT YOU PREFER?

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THAT IS WHAT I PREFER UNTIL SOMEONE IS

TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THAT WAS THE PARKING COMMITTEE CONCLUSION AS WELL WHERE THEY DID NOT COME WITH THE TIME LIMIT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THAT MAY BE THE SECOND ALTERNATIVE.

IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU, COMMISSIONER C. JOHNSON.

OKAY. ARE WE GOOD?

>> MR. ANDREWS: QUESTION. AS FAR AS ANY CONSEQUENCE.

DO WE ASSOCIATE THIS WITH A FINE

OR. >>MAYOR HUDSON: DON'T YOU HAVE STANDARD PARKING. MISS HEDGES BE.

>> SUBSECTIONS E, IF YOU WERE GOING THE ROUTE OF KAYAK USE ONLY. SUBSECTIONS E WHAT THEY WILL BE CITED UNDER. TYPICALLY A $50 FINE.

UP TO $500 FINE. BUT USUALLY WHAT IS REQUESTED IS

A $50 FINE. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: DOES THAT NEED TO BE NOTATED ON THE SIGN ITSELF.

>> IT DOES NOT. APPROPRIATE SIGNAGE TO INFORM OF WHAT THE USE IS LIMITED TO. I WOULD SUGGEST THERE WOULD BE SIGNAGE AT THE ENTRY TO THAT PARKING LOT, AS WELL AS IN FRONT OF THOSE SPECIFIC SPACES SO THAT IT IS VERY CLEAR.

ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE CHANGE THAT IS GOING TO OCCUR SO PEOPLE ARE WELL AWARE OF WHAT THE CHANGES IS.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THE OF TWO YOU CAN GET TOGETHER ON THE

LANGUAGE ISSUE. >> YES, SIR.

WE CAN CON SWULT MISS ARRAIZ. >>MAYOR HUDSON: ENFORCEMENT AND INFORMING. WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO GET A TICKET. TO KEEP PEOPLE INFORMED.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: JUST MY TWO SENTS.

WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS AND WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE PARKING THERE, CAN THESE FIRST TICKETS BE SOME TYPE OF WARNING BEFORE WE -- BEFORE -- SOME TYPE OF WARNING BEFORE WE HIT THESE PEOPLE WITH A $50 OR IT KEEPS GOING UP, YOU KNOW, JUST -- JUST UNLESS WE GET SOME TYPE OF NOTIFICATION OUT THERE THAT THE PEOPLE ARE PARKING THERE NOW.

AND WE THROW THESE SIGNS UP IN THE DAY, AND THE NEXT DAY THEY COME, THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

THEY ARE RUSHING AND COME BACK WITH A $50 TICKET ON THEIR CAR.

AND THEN MAGISTRATES AND -- I SAT IN ONE LAST WEEK AND THE WEEK BEFORE THAT. MISS HODGES IS LAUGHING.

THEY REALLY FIGHT ABOUT THESE $50 TICKETS.

IF YOU DON'T GO, IT'S -- THERE ARE SOME STORIES YOU HEAR.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: THEY ARE TELEVISED TOO.

IF. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: OKAY, I DIDN'T -- I AM SAYING, IF WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS, LET'S MAKE THE NOTIFICATION OUT THERE. AND EVEN IF THERE ARE NOTES ON THE PEOPLE'S CARS THAT WE KNOW ARE PARKING THERE NOW.

HEY, GUYS, THE CHANGE IS COMING. GOING TO BE KAYAK ONLY.

TICKETS ARE COMING FORTH. >>MAYOR HUDSON: MISS HEDGES.

>> MADAM MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS. WE DID THE RECENT PARKING CODE UPDATE. THE CODE DEPARTMENT DID ENGAGE IN AN EDUCATION AND WARNING PERIOD BEFORE THEY BEGAN ISSUING CITATIONS SO I DO BELIEVE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT AGAIN.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THANK YOU.

>> YES, SIR. >> REACH OUT TO THE SCHOOL.

BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HAS ASKED THE SCHOOL TO MAYBE SUGGEST THAT THEIR TEACHERS AND STUDENTS CAN'T PARK THERE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WE CAN INFORM THE HEAD OF SCHOOLS AND INFORM THE CLERK OF THE COURT THAT THIS CHANGE IS COMING.

THAT WILL BE A POLLUTE THING TO DO.

A COURTEOUS THING TO DO. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THANK

YOU. >> ALSO WHAT I BELIEVE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT DID WITH THE NOISE LAW FROM VEHICLES.

SO THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS THUN COMMON TO THE CITY.

THAT. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THANK YOU. FLORIDA.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU HAVE CLEAR DIRECTIONS, MR. ANDREWS.

>> MR. ANDREWS: YES, I DO. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: REFERENCE ON THE CITRUS AVENUE LOT.

LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY, THE DESIGN OF THAT WILL ONLY BE INCORPORATING CITY-OWNED LAND. NO OTHER OPTIONS TO ACQUIRE ADDITION THAT WILL WE DISCUSSED AT THE PARKING COMMITTEE MEETING. AS A QUICK ASIDE, JACK, YOU HAD SUGGESTED -- YOU WANT TO TO GET INTO THAT NOW OR NO?

>> MR. ANDREWS: I WILL MAKE IT UP TO THE COMMISSION.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I WILL MAKE REAL QUICK.

[01:10:02]

THE LOT TO -- ON BASED ON THE CITY-OWNED PROPERTY SOLELY AND THERE WAS A THOUGHT TO -- IN LIGHT OF THE BRIGHTLINE RENDERINGS AND THINGS OF THIS NATURE COMING FORWARD, WE WOULD WANT TO ENGAGE WITH THAT FIRM IN THE DESIGN OF THAT LOT POTENTIALLY IN THE FUTURE THAT IT WILL BE ACCESSIBLE.

SO BUILD IT ONCE. THAT WAS THE ONLY SUGGESTION THAT HAD BEEN DISCUSSED AT THE MEETING AS A POTENTIAL

MULTITIERED SOLUTION. >>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY.

>> MR. ANDREWS: IT APPEARS WHEN I PRESENT IT ORIGINALLY, WE HAD THE OTHER PROPERTY OWN THEIR WAS INTERESTED.

I GUESS -- >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THAT

IS OUT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: OH, OKAY.

>> MR. ANDREWS: I GUESS HE WOULD DOWNSIZE OUR PARKING AND KEEP IT

TO OUR PROPERTY WE CONTROL. >>MAYOR HUDSON: OKAY.

I GOT THAT. >> MR. ANDREWS: IF THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE, I WILL KIND OF REDO THE DESIGN AND PROPOSAL AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: MAKES SENSE TO ME.

YEP. MAKE SENSE TO EVERYBODY? YEP. THANK YOU, SIR.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: THANKS, JACK.

[d. Housing - Density/Small Units/Bedrooms]

>> NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THE HOUSING DENSITY SMALL UNIT

AND BEDROOMS. >>MAYOR HUDSON: ALL RIGHTY.

MR. FREEMAN. K

>> GOOD MORNING, MADAM MAYOR AND COMMISSION.

THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN TORTURING ME FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. AND WHEN I -- WHEN I TOOK THIS POSITION AT THE CITY, IT WAS ONE OF THE CITY MANAGER'S BIGGEST ISSUES IS TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND AND TRY TO PROPOSE A WAY FORWARD WHICH WOULD ENABLE THE CITY TO ENABLE THE MARKET TO DEVELOP A SOLUTION TO OUR HOUSING SUPPLY. WE KNOW WE HAVE -- WE KNOW WE HAVE A LARGE DEMAND. WE HAVE A SMALL SUPPLY.

THAT, IN ITSELF, IS AFFECTING COSTS.

WE HAVE PROPERTY. NOT CITY OWNED ENTIRETY, BUT WE HAVE PROPERTY IN THE CITY THAT IS VACANT.

WE HAVE AREAS IN THE CITY THAT HAVE LOTS WHICH SHOULD BE SUITABLE FOR DEVELOPMENT. BUT WHAT WE DON'T HAVE IS A METHODOLOGY THAT ENGAGES WITH THE EXISTING CITY INCENTIVES THAT WE HAVE. AND WE HAVE PLENTY OF THOSE, THAT ENGAGES WITH THOSE IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS US TO PERMIT UNDER PLANNING THE SMALLER UNITS THAT WE KNOW ARE A SOLUTION TO DECREASING COSTS AND INCREASING SUPPLY.

AND IF DONE PROPERLY, WOULD BE A BENEFIT TO PROPERTY OWNERS WITH LOTS LARGE ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE THESE THINGS.

SO I HAVE BEEN IN A TURMOIL WITH THIS FOR A WHILE.

AND WHAT IS THE MOST APPROPRIATE ACTION THAT THE CITY SHOULD TAKE. AND I WORKED WITH THE I.T.

SECTION. AND THEY VERY KINDLY SCRAPED SOME DATA FOR ME. WHICH ALLOWED THIS ANALYSIS TO BE UNDERTAKEN. AND SELECTED -- I SELECTED LINCOLN PARK AS THE STUDY AREA INITIALLY.

THESE SOLUTIONS COULD APPLY CITY WIDE, BUT I THINK WE -- LINCOLN PARK IS A SPECIAL ANIMAL. IT IS AN AREA IN WHICH WE HAVE VERY SMALL LOTS. IT IS A HISTORIC AREA.

IT IS A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS IN NEED OF HOUSING SUPPLY SOLUTION.

AND A LOT OF THOSE LOTS ARE POTENTIALLY AVAILABLE FOR INCLUSION IN OUR SOLUTION. SO, FIRST OF ALL, I LOOKED AT THE FUTURE LAND USE WHICH A DETERMINANT OF HOW MANY UNITS YOU CAN GET IN AN AREA. AND THE LARGEST FUTURE LAND USE IN LINCOLN PARK IS MEDIUM DENSITY.

WE DO HAVE LOW DENSITY AND ALSO WE HAVE HOMES ON OTHER FUTURE LAND USES WHICH AREN'T REALLY SUITABLE FOR HOMES, BUT IT IS THE WAY THAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HAS DEVELOPED OVER THE YEARS.

CONCENTRATED THE ANALYSIS ON THE LOTS WHICH HAVE EITHER LOW DENSITY OR MEDIUM DENSITY FUTURE LAND USE WHICH IS WHERE WE WOULD WANT TO SEE HOMES DEVELOP ED. WHEN DO YOU ANALYSIS OF THAT,

[01:15:03]

YOU SEE THAT, THERE IS ABOUT 50% OF THOSE LOTS ARE VACANT AT THE MOMENT. THE QUESTION IS WHY ARE NOT THESE LOTS BEING DEVELOPED? WHAT IS THE HANDICAP TO BUILDERS OR DEVELOPERS GOING IN TO THIS AREA AND ENABLING NEW HOMES TO BE BUILT OBJECT THESE LOTS? AN AREA WE NEED SUPPLY, AN AREA THAT WE NEED SMALL UNIT HOUSING OF LOW COST.

WHY IS THAT NOT HAPPENING? ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES THAT WE FOUND -- AND WHAT I FOUND OVER THE PAST YEAR -- WHEN PEOPLE COME TO PROPOSE HOMES, THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO SMALL HOMES, WHICH COULD SOMETIMES MEAN ONE OR TWO ON A LOT, BUT OUR CODE AT THE MOMENT WILL NOT ALLOW THAT.

OUR CODE AT THE MOMENT DOES NOT ALLOW ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.

AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT IS A UNIT WITH A KITCHEN.

DOESN'T ALLOW ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS AND -- SORRY, RETRACT ALL THAT -- THE DENSITY IN THE AREA WITH THE SMALL LOTS WILL NOT ALLOW MORE THAN ONE UNIT PER LOT.

AS YOU WILL SEE IN A MOMENT, THE LOT SIZES THEMSELVES, WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF THOSE LOTS, WHICH ARE NONCONFORMING AND IMMEDIATELY RESTRICTS THEM TO ONE DWELLING.

AND SO WE DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION TO MAKE THESE SITES WHICH CAN ACCOMMODATE THIS -- A SMALL UNIT DEVELOPMENT.

THESE ARE THE AMAZING NUMBERS I FOUND -- THE NONCONFORMING LOTS IN THE BOTTOM TABLE. IN THE R-3 AND R-4 ZONING DESIGNATIONS. WE HAVE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF THE ALMOST 2,000 LOTS THAT ARE IN LINCOLN PARK THAT ARE NONCONFORM GOING THEY WANTED TO BUILD A SINGLE-FAMILY OR A DUPLEX ON THESE LOTS. THIS -- THAT IS WHERE WE ARE HELD AT THE MOMENT. THAT IS WHERE THE DENSITY RESTRICTION OR MEASUREMENT OF DENSITY BY DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE RESTRICTS OUR ABILITY TO DO ANYTHING WITH THESE SMALLER LOTS. THIS GOT ME THINKING.

IS -- AND I DID SOME RESEARCH. AND I TRIED TO FIND ALTERNATIVE WAY OF THINKING ABOUT DENSITY. AND I USED THIS SOME TIME IN THE PAST, BUT IN A DIFFERENT WAY, AND IT DID ENCOURAGE SMALLER UNITS. BUT I THINK WHAT -- WHAT I WILL BE PROPOSING TODAY IS A FAR MORE EFFICIENT WAY OF THINKING ABOUT DENSITY WHEN YOU HAVE SMALL LOTS AND WHEN YOU WANT TO ENCOURAGE OWNERS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF WHAT THEY HAVE, TO BENEFIT FROM WHAT THEY HAVE, AND TO ALLOW THINGS TO HAPPEN ON THE VACANT LOTS WHICH COMPRISE SUCH A LARGE PROPORTION OF LINCOLN PARK.

THE DENSITY BY FUTURE LAND USE, YOU LOOK AT THE UNIT -- THE ACTUAL ACREAGE OF THOSE LOTS. EVEN IF YOU HAVE A MEDIUM DENSITY FUTURE LAND USE ALLOCATION, WHICH ALLOWS 12 UNITS PER ACRE, THE SIZE OF THAT LOT STILL DOESN'T ALLOW MORE THAN ONE UNIT IN THE MAJORITY OF CASES.

SO WE ARE AGAIN AUTOMATICALLY RESTRICTING THAT LOT FROM BEING ABLE TO MAYBE PUT A SMALL UNIT IN THE REAR, TO HAVE A -- TO HAVE A GRANNY OR A RELATIVE MOVING INTO THE REAR OF THAT PROPERTY. MAYBE THE OWNER THEMSELVES MOVING INTO A SMALLER HOME. AND ALLOWING THEM TO TAKE BENEFIT FROM THE LARGER HOME THEY USED AS A FAMILY HOME FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. SO WHAT IF WE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS IN A DIFFERENT WAY? ILLUSTRATION ON THE LEFT SHOWS A THREE-BEDROOM HOME. HAND THIS IS TYPICAL OF LINCOLN PARK. WE HAVE THREE-BEDROOM HOMES IN LINCOLN PARK ON SMALL LOTS. WHAT IS THE DENSITY OF THAT UNIT IS ONE? IF WE SAID UNIT PER ACRE, THAT IS ONE UNIT? IF WE LOOK AT THE ILLUSTRATION ON THE RIGHT, WHICH IS THE SAME NUMBER OF BEDROOMS. THE SAME NUMBER OF ACTIVITY. PROBABLY THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING IN THESE THINGS. THAT WE WOULD CALL THAT TWO UNITS PER ACRE IN TERMS OF THE LOT.

SO WHAT IS THE BIG DIFFERENCE HERE IN MEASURING DENSITY BY

[01:20:01]

BEDROOMS OR MEASURING DENSITY BY UNITS.

IF YOU START TO MEASURE DENSITY BY BEDROOMS, AND YOU COULD CALL THAT THREE UNITS -- THREE BEDROOMS PER ACRE, THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED. AND YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO FACILITATE THE ACCOMMODATION OF A SMALLER UNIT ADJACENT TO A LARGER UNIT AND TAKE THE BENEFIT OF BEING ABLE TO SUPPLY THE MARKET WITH TWO RESIDENTIAL UNITS RATHER THAN ONE.

SO I DID AN ANALYSIS. I WANT TO SAY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE THEN WHAT THE WAY OF MEASURING THINGS IN THIS LOCATION. AND WE DID AN ANALYSIS OF -- WHERE LINCOLN PARK WAS IN TERMS OF ITS MAKE-UP.

WITHIN THOSE HOMES. D BEDROOMS - I GOT ANOTHER NUMBER WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO RELAY ALSO. IN 2020, MORE THAN 50% OF NEW APARTMENTS. THIS IS JUST APARTMENTS, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT DWELLINGS -- BUT 50% OF NEW APARTMENTS WERE SINGLE BEDROOM APARTMENTS. THAT IS WHAT -- THAT IS WHERE THE DEMAND WAS. THAT IS WHAT WAS BEING BUILT.

HAND THIS IS WHERE THE SUPPLY IS HEADING, SMALLER UNITS.

I WOULD LIKE THE CITY TO BE ABLE TO BRING THAT SIZE OF UNIT TO A SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD. TO ALLOW FOR THAT TYPE OF ACCOMMODATION IN THESE AREAS. I THINK THAT WE DO HAVE A SUPPLY ISSUE IN THE CITY. AND WE DO HAVE A COST ISSUE IN THE CITY. SMALLER UNITS INCREASE SUPPLY.

THEY ALSO BY COST AND LAND DEMAND DECREASE THAT COST.

SO WHEN I DID THE ANALYSIS OF LINCOLN PARK, I COULD SEE THAT THE MAJORITY OF HOMES WERE JUST THREE BEDROOMS. CLOSELY RELATED TO TWO BEDROOMS. SMAMENT AMOUNT OF ONE BEDS.

AND THERE ARE SOME PROPERTIES THAT HAVE MORE THAN FOUR OR FIVE BEDROOMS. IF WE THINK THAT -- IF WE GO BACK TO THAT NUMBER, 50% OF DEMAND OR MORE IS FOR ONE BEDROOM UNITS. AND THEN WE LOOK AT WHAT THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE IS ABLE TO OFFER, ONLY 10% OF OUR HOUSING STOCK IN FORT PIERCE IS SINGLE -- IS ONE BEDROOM, WHETHER THAT IS APARTMENTS OR SINGLE-FAMILY. WE ARE WAY BEHIND THE CURVE ON THIS SUPPLY IN OUR TOWN. SO HOW DO WE GO ABOUT ENCOURAGING SINGLE OR ONE-BEDROOM HOMES? AND TO ME, THIS IS ASTONISHING. THIS GRAPH, WHICH SHOWS THE EXISTING LOTS BY FUTURE LAND USE, AND SHOWING THEM IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS WHICH ARE ON THOSE LOTS.

VERY SMALL PROPORTION OF THOSE LOTS ARE ABLE TO SUPPLY THE SINGLE BEDROOM UNITS. ALMOST 50% OF THE LOTS IN LINCOLN PARK ARE VACANT. HOW DO WE GET THOSE VACANT LOTS MOVING? THEN I DID AN ANALYSIS OF WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN -- WE ARE ALL USED TO SEEING DENSITY IN TERMS OF UNITS PER ACRE. LOW DENSITY, SIX AND A HALF UNITS PER ACRE AND SO FORTH. SO WHEN DID THE ANALYSIS OF THE AREA OF THE LOTS, THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS ON THOSE LOTS, AND COMMITTED TO TO BEDROOMS PER ACRE, THESE ARE THE NUMBERS I HAD FOR LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. ALMOST 99.9% OF LOTS IN LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL HAVE AN EQUIVALENT OF 35 BEDROOMS PER AC ACRE.

AND IN TERMS OF MEDIUM DENSITY, THAT GOES UP TO 40 BEDROOMS PER ACRE. SO IF WE HAD A SOLUTION WHICH LIMITEDED DEVELOPMENT TO THOSE NUM NUMBERS, LOW DENSITY AT 35 UNITS PER ACRE AND MEDIUM DENSITY AT 40 UNITS PER ACRE WE WOULD ENABLE THE SMALL LOTS TO BE BUILT OUT. I AM NOT TALKING OF SMALL LOTS

[01:25:01]

BEING BUILT OUT TO MULTIFAMILY. THESE WILL ENABLE THE STALL IN LOTS TO BE BUILT OUT AT ONE, TWO OR THREE BEDROOM UNITS OAR COMBINATION OF UNITS TO LIMIT THEM TO THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS ON EACH LOT SO THAT WOULD FACILITATE ONE UNIT, MAYBE TWO BEDROOMS AND A SINGLE UNIT AT THE BACK WITH ONE BEDROOM.

WE ARE NOT INCREASING THE USE OR INTENSITY OF THAT PROPERTY.

WE HAVE THE SAME NUMBER OF BEDROOMS. THE HOUSE WITH THREE BEDROOMS IS THEREABOUTS EQUIVALENT TO A HOUSE OR TWO HOMES WITH TWO BEDROOMS AND ONE BEDROOM SO FROM A STAFF POINT OF VIEW, I WOULD BE RECOMMEND THAWING DIRECT US TO LOOK INTO THIS MORE AND COME UP WITH A CODE OR AN AMENDMENT TO CODE THAT ALLOWS THIS. I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.

I THINK IT IS A GOOD SOLUTION FROM A PLANNING POINT OF VIEW.

AT THAT I WAS WE WOULD HAVE WOULD TO BE REZONE JUST THE MINIMUM LOT SIZES OF ALL THESE PROPERTIES HAND THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY ADDRESS THE POTENTIAL TO INCORPORATE A ACCESSORY UNIT OR SMALL UNIT OR TWO SMALL UNITS ON ONE LOT.

WE GO GO INTO THE COMPRESSIVE PLAN AND SMALL UNITS OF A CERTAIN SIZE 600 SQUARE FEET LESS THAN ONE DWELLING UNIT FOR DENSITY WHICH MAY, IN SOME CASES, ENABLE THE LARGER HOME TO HAVE AN ACCESSORY DWELLING IN THE REAR IN MAY.

WE HAVE NOT DONE A FULL ANALYSIS OF THAT.

DEPENDING WHAT WE WOULD MEASURE THE DWELLING UNIT AS.

THE ALTERNATIVE, WHICH IS WHAT I AM RECOMMENDING, IS TO MEASURE DENSITY AS THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS PER ACRE RATHER THAN DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE. SO I WOULD LIKE THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER THIS AND DIRECT US APPROPRIATE AND WE WILL WORK ON TRYING TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE. AND I THINK THIS IS A GOOD WAY OF DOING THAT. THANK YOU.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: INTERESTING. SO I THINK THERE ARE OTHER CITIES THAT ARE ENACTING ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.

SOMETHING LIKE THIS. I THINK AT THE CONFERENCE I AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YEAH. QUESTIONS.

QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER GAINES.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: RIGHT. ALSO AT THE CONFERENCE.

ARE WE TALKING -- ARE WE REALLY TALKING ABOUT THE WHOLE NEW TINY HOME -- TINY HOME PHENOMENON THAT IS GOING ON AROUND THE COUNTRY? IS THIS WHAT WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT BEING ABLE TO PUT A TINY HOME OR A LIVING SPACE BEHIND SOMEONE'S EXISTING HOUSE? AND I UNDERSTAND -- I LIKE HOW YOU BROKE IT DOWN WITH THE BEDROOMS. BUT THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, TRYING TO TAP INTO THE -- I AM JUST CURIOUS, THE TINY HOME MARKET THAT -- THAT IS SPREADING

AROUND -- AROUND THE COUNTRY? >> I THINK IT IS A COMBINATION OF THAT TO ALLOW PEOPLE IF THEY WANTED TO, TO PUT A TINY HOME BEHIND THEIR RESIDENCE FOR WHATEVER PURPOSE THEY WANTED TO PUT THAT THERE. IT IS -- IT IS -- IT ALLOWS THAT -- HOPEFULLY THAT INCOME TO BE ABLE TO BE TAKEN BY THAT EXISTING PROPERTY OWNER. BUT IT ALSO -- THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT WE HAVE IN -- IN LINCOLN PARK.

JUST ONE EXAMPLE I HAVE TAKEN IS OF THE SIZE OF THE LOTS.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: CORRECT. >> THE SIZE OF THE LOTS.

AND WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN GET AN ACCEPTABLE BREAK BETWEEN THE COST OF THE PROPERTY, THE COST OF DEVELOPMENT, AND THE COST TO EITHER THE RENTAL UNIT OR THE PURCHASE OF THAT UNIT.

AND THAT IS WHERE IT IS JUST NOT BALANCED AT THE MOMENT.

>>COMMISSIONER GAINES: THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING.

BECAUSE I LIKE THE IDEA. AND I UNDERSTAND THE VACANT LOTS. I SEE THEM EVERY DAY.

BUT WITH THIS IDEA, WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW AN EXISTING PROPERTY OWNER, IF WE GO THIS WAY, TO BUILD A SMALLER UNIT ON THEIR LOT. AND THAT PROPERTY OWNER WILL THEN EITHER HAVE THE ABILITY TO RENT IT OUT FOR USE OR IF WANTED TO, COULD SELL TO SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO BUY THAT TINY HOME.

[01:30:01]

THE ONLY REASON I AM TRYING -- SOMETHING THAT COMMISSIONER -- COMMISSIONER JOHNSON ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT -- CURTIS JOHNSON TALKS ABOUT. IF WE CAN GET OUT OF THIS MIND SET OF RENTING. AND GET -- RATHER -- RESIDENTS OF TAMPA FORT PIERCE OWNERSHIP, IT MEANS SOMETHING TO -- IT MEANS SOMETHING TO OWN YOUR HOME.

EVEN IF IT IS A LITTLE TINY HOME, MY LITTLE SHED, MY LITTLE HOME, MY LITTLE ONE-BEDROOM HOME, IT IS MY HOME.

AND -- AND THAT COMES WITH A DIFFERENT TYPE OF -- TYPE OF PRIDE. AND IT GOES INTO THIS ONE FORT PIERCE THAT COMMISSIONER JOHNSON ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT, THIS WONE FORT PIERCE. PAY ATTENTION CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS BECAUSE YOU KNOW. AND THIS IS WHERE WE ARE TRYING GO. I LOVE THE IDEA OF TRYING TO PUT SOME OF THOSE HOMES OR THESE THESE IDEAS ON THE VACANT LOTS IN LINCOLN PARK BECAUSE VITALIZED THE WHOLE AREA IF IT IS DONE RIGHT. THE OWNERS THAT OWN THESE LOTS CAPITALIZE ON THE SAME PEOPLE WE ARE TRYING TO HELP.

I AM DEALING WITH THAT NOW. AND WE ARE DEALING WITH THAT IS NOW. AND LIKE THE IDEA AND A GAME CHANGER IN THE LINCOLN PARK AREA.

BUT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE IDEA TO IT.

BUT I DO HAVE A FEW CONCERNS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE -- WILL TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOME OF THE RESIDENTS IN THAT AREA. AND SO I WANT TO SEE SOME WAY.

AND I CAN'T MAKE SOMEONE SELL PART OF THEIR LAND TO SOMEBODY ELSE. THE CITY CAN'T DO THAT.

BUT IF -- IF IT IS SOME TYPE OF INCENTIVES TO SAY.

IF YOU LET US BUILD HERE AND YOU TURN ON OWNERSHIP TO THIS PERSON, X, Y Z. MISS HODGES, I DON'T KNOW YET.

BUT THE OWNERSHIP ASPECT SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON THE BOARD THAT WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO PUSH IN -- IN -- IN FORT PIERCE.

AND -- MADAM MAYOR, I AM HAVING A THOUGHT.

I CAN'T REMEMBER THE CITY THEY NAMED IN THAT -- THE CITY THEY

NAMED IN -- THIS WEEKEND. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WHERE THEY HAD

THE TINY HOUSES? >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: WHAT --

>>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: KISSISSIMEE? I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS KISSISSIMEE.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: I AM NOT SURE. THE LIVABILITY SESSION? THE LIVABILITY SESSION OR THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING SESSION?

WELL, IT DOESN'T MATTER. >>COMMISSIONER GAINES: I WILL

COME -- THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER J. JOHNSON: MAY.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MAY I MR. FREEMAN, THANK YOU.

CONTINUING ON THE PATH OF WHAT MR. GAINES IS SAYING.

IT IS FUNNY, I HAD THIS CONVERSATION LAST WEEK WITH STAFF. AND WE LOOKED SPECIFICALLY AT A NUMBER OF PARCELS OWNED BY THE FPRA, AS WELL AS THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE. TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES OF OWNERSHIP WITH VACANT PROPERTY AND LAND.

THEY PROVIDED ME WITH A LIST. I ENCOURAGED THEM TO SHARE THAT WITH MY FILL LOW COMMISSIONERS HERE SO WE CAN GET A SENSE OF WHAT IS VACANT. I SAW A LOT OF LOTS THERE.

.08. TIMELINESS IS SPOT ON.

I SAT IN THAT MEETING AND FIGURING OUT WHAT CAN BE BUILT ON THIS AND WHAT IS THE ACTUAL NEED THAT NEEDS TO BE BUILT.

AND I GO DOWN THE PATH OF WHAT COMMISSIONER GAINESVILLE SAID.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN YOUR ANALYSIS FURTHER IS, OF THE VACANT LOTS -- WE NEED TO TRY TO GET AN UNDERSTAND WHAT WILL BE RENTAL VERSUS OWNERSHIP OF HOME. WHO IS FOLLOWING INVESTMENT IN DEVELOPMENT OF A HOUSE THEY ARE LOOKING TO SELL THAT ACTUAL HOUSE COMPARED TO RINTING THAT HOUSE.

AND I THINK IF WE HAVE SOME TYPE OF ENGAGEMENT TO UNDERSTAND THAT AND TRY TO GET THAT PULSE. BECAUSE WE ARE FACED RIGHT NOW WITH WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER TO A LOT OF RENTAL STOCK IN THE LINCOLN PARK AREA AND THAT PRICE CONTINUES TO ESCALATE MORE SO.

AND OPPOSED TO IN HOMEOWNERSHIP MORE LOCKED BASED ON MORTGAGE

[01:35:01]

AND REFINANCED IN DIFFERENT PACKAGES.

SO I THINK AS WE BEGIN TO PREPARE A COMMUNITY TO FROM THE MIND SET OF RENTERSHIP TO OWNERSHIP, WE NEED CONSIDER THAT. AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THESE LOTS WHO IS FOLLOWING BUILD THESE HOUSES BECAUSE MY NEXT CONVERSATION AND SOME OF THE CONVERSATION I WAS HAVING THIS WEEKENDS WITH DEVELOPERS WERE, OKAY, I DON'T NEED RENTERS. I NEED HOMEOWNERSHIP.

ARE YOU FOLLOWING BUILD A HOUSE THAT WILL BE BETWEEN A PRICE RANGE OF SMALL CONTAINER US OF $75,000 TO $125,000 TO BUILD THIS STRUCTURE, RIGHT. THAT PUTS THAT MORTGAGE WELL WITHIN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE -- WHAT WE CONSIDER OUR WORK FORCE ECONOMY THAT WE HAVE NOW. AND THERE WILL BE MORE COMING AS DEVELOPMENTS COME OUT THE GROUND, OUR TYPES OF ECONOMY AND JOBS WILL BE LARGELY AROUND PROFESSIONAL WORKFORCE WAGES.

AND SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IN YOUR CALCULATIONS, FOR OWNERSHIP. THAT WE ARE CONSIDERING OUR CURRENT AND FUTURE WAGE EARNERS HERE IN THE CITY.

WHAT I AM CONCERNED WITH, WITH ALL THESE MILLION SQUARE FEET OF PROPERTY IN WAREHOUSES. SOMEONE HAS TO WORK THERE.

THOSE ARE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 15 TO MAYBE $25-AN-HOUR JOBS.

WE KNOW IT IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY.

WE NEED THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER IS BEING BUILT TO HOMES FITS THAT. AND THAT GETS COMMUNICATED THAT THIS IS YOUR WAY TO OWN THIS HOUSE, HAVING THESE TYPES OF JOBS. ANOTHER SECT OBVIOUSLY GROWING WITH THE SKILLED WORK FORCE. WELDERS.

THE AC REPAIR, HVAC PEOPLE. ANOTHER LEVEL AND WE LIKE WHAT WE ARE SAYING BECAUSE -- IF THERE IS A PIECE OF PROPERTY AND GET TWO STRUCTURE THERE IS AND FIT THAT NEED AND NOW YOU OWN YOUR HOUSE. IT IS A ONE-BEDROOM HOUSE.

THAT IS ALL YOU WANT. THAT IS FINE.

I THINK WE HAVE CHANGED THE WHOLE DYNAMIC OF THINGS WE ARE CONCERNED WITH. GETS IT ON THE TAX ROLL.

WE GET BETTER COMMUNITIES. WE GET BETTER NEIGHBORHOODS.

WE GET REDUCTION IN CRIME. WE GET EVERYTHING WE NEED TO HAPPEN IN THIS CITY. AND WE GET AN ECONOMY THAT SUPPORTS OUR LOCAL OFFICIALS HERE AND LOCAL BUSINESSES.

SO, I LIKE WHERE YOU ARE GOING. I WANT TO SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE AS FAR AS THAT. BECAUSE I THINK IF WE CAN HELP PAINT THAT PICTURE OF HERE ARE THE PEOPLE WE ARE TRYING TO PUT YOU INTO HOUSES AND HERE ARE THE JOBS THAT ARE COMING TO FORT PIERCE. NOW IT IS MATCHING EVERYTHING.

AND PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT. AND -- BECAUSE WE HAVE GOT A SURPLUS OF RENTALS RIGHT NOW. THAT PRICE -- WHAT THEY ARE PAYING FOR RENT YOU CAN MAY INTO NORTH WE BUILD THESE HOUSES IN A CERTAIN LEVEL. YOU CAN REALLY AFFORD IT.

THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF.

THEY DON'T KNOW THEY CAN AFFORD A HOUSE THAT IS THEIRS.

AND WHAT THEY ARE PAYING FOR RENT AND WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE IT. YOU ARE PROVIDING A SOLUTION TO SUN PLY. TAKE .15 ACRE AND CONSIDER NEIGHBOR I GET A THREE BEDROOM THERE.

CONSIDER AN ACTION TO DO A TWO-BY ROOM IN ONE STRUCTURE AND MAYBE A ONE BEDROOM OVER HERE. THE LANDOWNER THAT OWNS THAT LAND, BUILD IT AND SELL IT AND I WILL MAKE MY MONEY AND THIS PERSON IS PAYING THE MORTGAGE ON THIS GOING FORWARD.

THAT IS WHAT I AM HEARING? >> I AM LISTENING TO WHAT THE COMMISSION IS SAYING IS GIVING ME GOOSE BUMPS.

WHAT I JUST REALIZED THAT IMSITTING HERE, IF WE MOVE TO A BEDROOM PER ACRE RATHER THAN DENSITY PER ACRE, IT ALLOWS US TO REDUCE EVEN FURTHER LOT S SIZES.

SO YOU CAN HAVE REAL SMALL LOTS FOR SALE TO ACCOMMODATE A SMALL HOME. THERE WOULD NEED TO BE CODE CHANGES TO DO THAT, BUT IF WE WENT TO A DIFFERENT FORM OF MEASUREMENT, ALLOWS YOU TO SQUEEZE THE LOT SIZES DOWN.

WHICH ALLOWS YOU A BETTER OPTION TO ACTUALLY SELL THOSE THINGS.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: RIGHT.

RIGHT. I THINK THERE IS -- I THINK IT IS WORTH THE EXERCISE AND WE HAVE TO PROTECT THE TRADITIONAL FAMILIES THAT ARE THERE NOW THAT HAVE THE LARGER LOT SIZES.

ALL THIS HAS TO BE CONSIDERED, BUT THE ALTERNATIVE IS, WE CAN'T IGNORE WHAT WE HAVE. AND WE HAVE A SMALL LOT CHALLENGE AND A LOT OF THEM. I WOULD RATHER SEE STRUCTURES ON THAT. AND PEOPLE LIVING IN HOUSE.

SO WHAT I GUESS I AM SAYING IS THE STANDARD OF HOUSING THAT WILL COME ON THE SMALLER ACRES, WE ARE NOT GOING TO SACRIFICE THAT STANDARD OF WHAT IS GOING THERE.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF DWHAULT CAN GO INTO SMALLER FRAMED HOUSE, IT BE A CONTAINER HOME. BE IT IN SOME OTHER TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT FITS THE NEIGHBORHOOD ARE SURROUNDING AND WE LIFT THAT UP AND ELEVATE IT. BECAUSE THOSE THAT HAVE

[01:40:01]

SACRIFICED A GREAT DEAL OF -- OF CENTURIES OF TIME WITH FAMILIES HERE, WE DON'T WANT THEM TO LOSE PROPERTY VALUE.

WE ACTUALLY WANT THEM TO ELEVATE, BRING THEM AND LIFT THEM UP FOR INVESTMENTS OVER TIME.

I LIKE WHERE THIS IS GOING, MADAM MAYOR.

AND I THINK AT SOME POINT -- WE HAVE TO CONSIDER HOW WE THINK ABOUT FOOTPRINT ON ACREAGE FROM BEDROOMS TO DENSITY.

>> I THINK WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR FROM THE DISCUSSION, I HAVE GOT A VERY GOOD INDICATION OF WHAT YOU ARE CONCERNING ARE.

I THINK THAT STAFF CAN TAKE THIS DISCUSSION AND MOVE TO -- WITHOUT BEING RESTRICTED ON ANY DIRECTION, TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT YOU HAVE BROUGHT FORWARD.

AND TO COME BACK WITH A PROPOSAL, A ZONING CHANGE, OR A CODE CHANGE THAT WOULD. THAT WOULD BE A DISCUSSION STILL. WILL COME THROUGH THE PLANNING BOARD, TRC, CITY COMMISSION. OUT THERE FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON. I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THIS -- DO THIS QUITE RAPIDLY BECAUSE I THINK I AM FRUSTRATED WHEN I HAVE TO SIT WITH SOMEBODY IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND SAY THEY CAN'T DO SOMETHING -- SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW AN AREA NEEDS.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER SOLUTIONS.

AND I THINK THIS IS A VERY GOOD MOVEMENT TO THAT.

AND I THINK HEARING ALSO YOUR, YOU KNOW, CONCERNS, A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CITY AND ITS PROPERTY OWNERSHIP, FPUA AND ITS PROPERTY OWNERSHIP, THE GRANTS DEPARTMENT, WHERE DO WE GET THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVE PROGRAM, MONIES.

HOW CAN THAT BE USED. IF WE HAVE A CODE THAT FIT THE REQUIREMENTS OF ALL THESE THINGS AND LOOKED AT THE JOBS AND THE PAYMENT OR THE SALARY OF THE JOBS.

WE WRAP THIS UP INTO A HOLISTIC WORKABLE THING.

A LOT OF CODE FALLS DOWN BECAUSE OF PRECISELY THAT.

WE DON'T REALLY ANALYZE IF THOROUGHLY THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BUY OR LIVE IN THE AREA OR THE EXISTING COMMUNITY.

MY JOB HERE IS A PRIORITY HELP LINCOLN PARK, AS PART OF FORT

PIERCE. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: ONE LAST COMMENT, MADAM MAYOR. I THINK YOU ARE SPOT ON.

I THINK THE OTHER THING TOO FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES.

THE LINCOLN PARK AREA THAT YOU IDENTIFIED IS LARGELY IN

THE:ENTERPRISE ZONE -- >> OPPORTUNITY ZONE.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: OPPORTUNITY ZONE.

THOSE INVEST IN PROPERTY AND TAX -- DO THEY QUALIFY FOR TAX

CREDITS. >> THERE ARE TAX CREDITS AVAILABLE. I WILL HAVE TO DO MORE RESEARCH

ON THAT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: FPRA.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: FPRA THAT OFFERS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES. WE BUNDLE THAT TOGETHER AND PAINT THE PICTURE, PEOPLE UNDERSTAND.

I WANT TO SEND THAT SIGNAL TO THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY OWN IT.

THE LAST TIME I AM GOING TO SAY THAT.

LOOKING FOR YOU TO BUILD A HOUSE TO BUY IT TO SELL IT TO SOMEONE.

NOT RENT IT -- MAYBE IF IT IS A RENT-TO-OWN.

IT IS EVEN BETTER. BUT THE RENTERSHIP.

I AM LOSING MY APPETITE FOR THAT RIGHT NOW.

HOMEOWNERSHIP IS WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO AND LOOK AT HERE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE HOLDING PROPERTY FOR A LONG TIME.

PAYING LITTLE OR NO TAXES AND NOTHING IS BEING DONE THERE.

WHY NOT SELL IT, MAKE YOUR MONEY AND MOVE ON AND LET SOMEBOY

ELSE LIVE THEIR DREAM. >>MAYOR HUDSON: MORE ATTRACTIVE IF YOU HAVE AN ACCESSORY DWELLING THAT YOU ARE SELLING AND YOU LIVE ON IT TOO. THAT IS MORE -- THAT IS BETTER THAN JUST PLAIN OL' RENTER, BECAUSE YOU ARE ON THE PROPERTY.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I THINK THAT AN ALTERNATIVE, MADAM MAYOR THAT WILL BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF ABSENTEE LANDLORDS. IF SOMEONE CREATED WITH THEIR PROPERTY THAT THEY OWNED. BUT, THEN, AGAIN, I GOT TO BE CAREFUL OF WHAT THAT RENT RATE CREEP WILL LOOK LIKE.

RENT OF WHAT SOME OF THESE PEOPLE ARE PAY SOMETHING CRAZY IN OUR COMMUNITY. AND I AM -- I AM JUST --

>>MAYOR HUDSON: FOR A FAMILY MEMBER.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: FOR A FAMILY MEMBER.

EITHER WAY IT GOES, I THINK WE ARE IN THE RIGHT DISCUSSION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: COMMISSIONER BRODERICK.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I HAVE A FEW.

YOU EXPECTED THAT, I AM SURE. [LAUGHTER] FIRST OF ALL, EXCELLENT REPORT. SOME STARTLING INFORMATION IS CONTAINED IN THAT REPORT. I THINK THAT THE -- THE BASELINE PROBLEM YOU IDENTIFIED SPECIFICALLY IS NONCONFORMANCE BASED ON LOT SIZE. THE OLDER SECTIONS OF THE CITY

[01:45:05]

SIMPLY PUT, DO NOT REFLECT DEVELOPMENT CAPABILITY WITH ZONING. THEY -- THEY DON'T MATCH.

>> THEY ARE A MISMATCH, YES. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: SO I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING WITH THIS.

BUT I WANT THIS SO FOLKS UNDERSTAND THIS.

YOU OWN A NONCONFORMING LOT. I COME IN AND SAY, PLANNING DEPARTMENT, I WANT TO BUILD A HOUSE ON IT.

WHAT IS THE RESPONSE OR PATHWAY IF YOU HAVE A NONCONFORMING LOT.

CAN YOU BUILD? >> YES, YOU CAN BUILD A HOME ON THERE. YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE EXISTING ZONING SETBACKS AND IMPERVIOUS AREAS AND SO FORTH.

A NUMBER OF CRITERIA IF, IN THE PAST, THAT NONCONFORMING LOT WAS JOINED TO ANOTHER NONCONFORMING LOT, YOU HAVE TO COMBINE THEM.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CAPABILITY WHICH A TON OF LOTS IN THE CITY AND I KNOW BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL AROUND WHERE MY OFFICE IS LOCATE IS SIMPLY NOT BUILDABLE.

OR IT IS A VERY COMPLICATED PROCESS TO COME BUILDABLE.

SO I THINK YOU ARE SPECIFICALLY ON THE CORRECT PATH TO CORRECT THAT. I AM VERY CURIOUS AND MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO ALLOW YOUR DEPARTMENT THE LATITUDE TO COME UP WITH WHATEVER CREATIVE SOLUTIONS YOU ARE THINKING OF TAMPA BRING THOSE BACK AND KIND OF PRIORITIZE THOSE.

YES, WE CAN -- 50% OF THE INEVENTUAL TORY OUT THERE IS NOT BUILT ON. THAT, TO ME, IS A STARRED LING NUMBER IN HERE. ONE OTHER COMPONENT THAT I THINK WE MAY WANT TO CONSIDER. WE HAVE THE HOUSING SOURCE OF THIS -- YOU ALL KNOW I AM A HUGE ADVOCATE OF WORK FORCE HOUSING BECAUSE THINGS COME TO A GRINDING HALT IF WE DON'T HAVE WORKERS. I HEARD A EARFUL OF THIS, WORK FORCE HOUSING AND PEOPLE IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY.

THEY SIMPLY CAN'T GET PLACES TO LIVE.

WE RECEIVED AN INTERNAL REPORT, AN INDUSTRY REPORT, IN MY OFFICE A WEEK OR SO AGO THAT SAID A MEDIAN RENTAL FOR TWO BEDROOM IS $2200 A MONTH. IT IS ONE -- ONE OF THE FASTEST ACCELERATING PRICE INCREASE AREAS IN SOUTH FLORIDA.

MAYOR MAYOR WAS IN THE PAPER. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: SO THE DYNAMICS OF THIS -- YOUR TIMING IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO AFFECTION 1998 THOSE CHANGES AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND I COMPLETELY SUPPORT GIVING YOU GUYS THE LATITUDE TO CREATE AND THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX, COME UP WITH A CREATIVE SOLUTIONS TO BRING THEM BACK TO THE COMMISSION TO ADDRESS THAT.

ONE THING TO ADD TO THE MIX, NOT TO MAKE YOUR JOB MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT IS, THAT WE HAVE A BALANCE IN THESE OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS. WE HAVE COMMERCIAL LOTS THAT ARE NONCONFORMING. IF YOU ARE GOING TO INCREASE YOUR DENSITY OF RESIDENTIAL, WHICH -- WHICH EVERYBODY HERE IS A ADVOCATING THAT WE DO, WE NEED NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORT FOR THOSE RESIDENTS TO BE ABLE TO GO TO STORES, SERVICES OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, AND WE HAVE A MASSIVE INVENTORY OF NONDONE FORMING COMMERCIAL LOTS. AND THE DISCUSSION I HAD IN MY OFFICE LAST WEEK ON A PROPERTY ON ORANGE AVE, WHERE THERE ARE FOUR LOTS. FOUR ADJOINING LOTS, EACH WITH 45 FEET OF FRONTAGE. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM, AND THEY ARE ALL OWNED INDIVIDUALLY. NOT OWNED BY THE SAME PERSONS.

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE LOTS IS BUILDABLE.

AND TO ME -- OKAY, WE NEED TO WRESTLE WITH THAT AS WELL TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES THAT THOSE FOLKS ARE GOING TO NEED WHEN TEY MOVE INTO THEIR NEW SMALLER HOMES, ETC., ON THESE INTERIOR LOTS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO NEED THE SERVICE BACK-UP AS WELL.

THE ONLY THING I AM SUGGESTING THAT YOU MAY WANT TO EXPAND THE THOUGHT PROCESS A LITTLE BIT. THIS AREA, PEACOCK ARTS DISTRICT, DELAWARE, THAT ENTIRE REGION ARE THESE UNDERSIZED LOTS. UNDERSIZED ZONING.

NOT UNDERSIZED DUE TO SUBDIVISION.

THAT IS THE DIFFERENTIAL. >> THAT'S CORRECT HEFF.

>>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: ANY CORE AREAS OF ANY CITY, YOU WILL FIND THIS EXACT SAME SCENARIO. SO WE NEED -- YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH HERE. I WILL JUST EXPAND IT SOMEWHAT TO GET THE SERVICES THAT FOLKS NEED WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF THEIR HOMES OR VERY CLOSE COMMUTE TO THEIR HOMES, ETC., SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

DON'T SEE THE DOLLARS PLOWED BACK INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND I THINK A COMBINATION OF RESIDENTIAL ADAPTABILITY, COMMERCIAL ADAPTABILITY SO WE CAN BALANCE ALL OF THIS OUT.

I LOVE THE DIRECTION IT IS GOING IN.

I SUGGEST AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO GET IT DONE.

BUT JUST EXPAND THE PARAMETERS A LITTLE BIT SO WE LOOK AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS A WHOLE. NOT JUST THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT OF IT. THAT WOULD BE OUR SUGGESTION.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: GREAT JOB. THANK YOU, KEVIN FOR THINKING.

THANK YOU FOR COMING TO FORT PIERCE AND THINKING ABOUT THIS.

>> ALL DONE. >>MAYOR HUDSON: THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, SIR. >> OKAY.

[e. Hometown Hero Banner Program Discussion]

THE NEXT ITEM IS THE HOMETOWN HERO BANNER PROGRAM DISCUSSION.

[01:50:01]

MR. REALS. >>MAYOR HUDSON: MR. JOHNSON, ANYTHING TO SAY BEFORE HE STARTS?

>> NO, SIR. NO, MA'AM.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: GREAT. >> GOOD MORNING, MADAM CACHE MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS. I HAVE REQUESTED MISS CAITLYN BALLARD TO JOIN ME TO PRESENT THE HOMETOWN HERO BANNER PROGRAM. AS SHE WAS IN THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT, THIS WAS HER PROJECT, AND SHE DRAFTED THE MAJORITY OF WHAT IS HERE. AND I WOULD LIKE FOR HER TO PRESENT TO YOU. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS,

WE ARE HERE TO ANSWER. >> ALL RIGHT, MISS BALANCE SPARED GOOD MORNING, MADAM MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION. THANK YOU FOR HAVING US TODAY.

AS MIKE SAID, THIS IS A PROGRAM THAT THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE

ORIGINALLY -- >>MAYOR HUDSON: SPEAK UP A

LITTLE BIT. >> SORRY.

GOT SOME IDEAS FROM OTHER CITIES AND WHAT WE CAME UP WITH TO HONOR OUR MILITARY VETERANS AND -- WITH THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE COMMUNITY. SO, AGAIN, IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU HAVE THE PROGRAM POLICIES AND GUIDELINES AND APPLICATION FOR REVIEW. IT IS OPEN TO FORMER AND EXISTING CITY RESIDENTS. IT IS A TWO-YEAR PROGRAM WHERE YOU CAN EITHER PURCHASE ONE FOR YOURSELF OR A -- OR FOR A HONOREE. AGAIN A TWO-YEAR PROGRAM.

THE AREA THE AREA THAT WAS IDENTIFIED AS THE LOCATION FOR THE BANNERS AS OF NOW IS VETERANS MEMORIAL PARK.

A TWO-YEAR AGO NOVEMBER TO JUNE 1.

TAKE THEM DOWN DURING THE HURRICANE SEASON JUST IN PREPARATION FOR ANY UPCOMING STORMS. AFTER TWO YEARS, THE BANNER IS GIVEN BACK TO THE FAMILY.

IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO RENEW, THERE IS AN OPTION AT THIS TIME.

SO ANY THOUGHTS, QUESTIONS? >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: MADAM MAYOR, I HAVE ONE WICK QUESTION.

I THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD PROGRAM. I READ THROUGH THE GUIDELINES OF ELIGIBILITY, JUST SEEMED -- SO -- MAY BE SOMEONE PAST OR PRESENT. SO I GOT THAT PART.

BUT IF THEY ARE NOT A RESIDENT OF THE CITY, OR MAYBE THEY ARE DECEASED, HOW WOULD THEY QUALIFY FOR THE PROOF OF ELIGIBILITY, RIGHT. MAYBE THEY -- IF -- IF THEY ARE A PAST RESIDENT OF THE CITY, MAYBE THEY LIVE IN WASHINGTON SOMEWHERE. WOULD THEY BE ELIGIBLE FOR THIS TYPE OF RECOGNITION HERE? JUST SEEMS LIKE A LITTLE CONFLICT AS I LOOKED AT THE ELIGIBILITY AND I NEEDED SOME

BRIEF CLARIFICATION. >> DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD?

>> MADAM MAYOR, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS, YES, THEY WILL BE.

SOMEHOW -- I SEE THE NEED WE WOULD HAVE TO VERIFY AT ONE TIME THERAPY RESIDENT OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: OKAY.

>> BUT IF THEY RESIDED HERE, GREW UP HERE, MAYBE SERVED IN THE SERVICE WHILE THEY LIVED HERE AND SINCE MOVED AWAY, WE DEFINITELY WANT TO BE ABLE TO HONOR THEM.

AND MAY MAY NEED TO DO A LITTLE MORE HOMEWORK HOW TO DETERMINE THEY HAD A RESIDENCY AT ONE POINT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: IT JUST SEEMS -- THE SCENARIO.

YOUNG MEN HERE WHERE CLASSMATE SERVED AND LIVE IN TEXAS RIGHT NOW BUT HOMETOWN GUYS AND I WAS WONDER HOW LONG THAT WILL WORK.

BASED ON HOW I INTERPRETED THIS, MAY THAT BE GAP OF HOW WE THINK

ABOUT THAT, THAT'S ALL. >> AS MIKE STATED, WE CAN GET THAT PROOF OF RESIDENCY. LIKE YOU SAID THEY COULD BE BORN HERE AND HAVE SINCE RELOCATED. BUT, AGAIN, A TWO-YEAR PROGRAM.

SO WE DEFINITELY WANT TO HONOR THAT.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WOULD YOU -- DO YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE?

ONE BANNER AT A TIME? >> NO, THEY WOULD BE ON THE EXISTING FOALS AT VETERANS MEMORIAL PARK.

HOW MANY THERE ARE? >> 14.

>> 14 POLES CURRENTLY. >>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: POSSIBILITY TO DO DOUBLES ON EACH POLE OR ONE PER FOIL? I HAVE SEEN SOME WHERE IT IS KIND -- IF THE POLE WAS IN THE MIDDLE, FLAGS ON BOTH SIDES. TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

I AM CURIOUS IF YOU THOUGHT OF THAT.

>> I BELIEVE AS OF NOW, THEY ARE MADE FOR ONE POST -- ONE BANNER, BUT COULD POSSIBLY DEPENDING ON, YOU, HOW BIG THE PROGRAM GETS.

IT COULD POSSIBLY BE RETROFITTED FOR ADDITIONAL BANNERS, MIKE?

>> I THINK WE WILL HAVE TO INVESTIGATE THAT.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: WE WILL HAVE A TREMENDOUS

RESPONSE AND HOW TO MAX IT OUT. >>MAYOR HUDSON: WONDERFUL TO HAVE A TREMENDOUS RESPONSE, REALLY.

WONDERFUL. >> MADAM MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS.

THE NEXT THING WE WILL PRESENT TO YOU, ONCE WE OUTGROW THIS SPACE, IF WE CAN DO ONE OR TWO PER POLE, WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE

[01:55:04]

TO EXPAND TO. I CAN TELL JUST FROM THE PHONE CALLS WE ALREADY RECEIVED FROM FOLKS, WORDED MOUTH HEARING ABOUT THE PROGRAM. I DO BELIEVE WE WILL HAVE A GREAT INTEREST IN THE PROGRAM AND I SEE IT OUTGROWING THE

IDENTIFIED LOCATION. >>MAYOR HUDSON: YOU MEAN BEYOND

VETERANS MEMORIAL PARK. >> WE CAN COME BACK AND HAVE DISCUSSIONS OF WHAT OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: WE CAN THINK OF THAT AS WE GO AROUND THE CITY.

>>COMMISSIONER CURTIS JOHNSON: I THINK THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC.

JUST FOR THE NEIGHBORING SENSE OF OUR COMMUNITY, I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THOSE THAT WOULD REALLY -- MAYBE WANT THEIR BANNER TO SERVE IN LINCOLN PARK, RIGHT.

THOSE VETERAN WHO SERVE THERE, AN HONOR TO BE IN OUR GREAT STREETS THAT WE CAN CHOOSE IN THE LINCOLN PARK AREA AND MAYBE GIVE THAT PREFERENCE AND HELP EDUCATE THE COMMUNITY, TOO, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD RECOGNIZE THEIR ARE GRANDPARENTS, ETC., ETC. THAT SERVED IN THESE WARS.

SO WE HAVE A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY HIGHLIGHT OUR CITY I THINK AS WE PICK OUR MAJOR THOROUGHWAYS.

AVENUE D. TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE

CAN MAX THIS OUT. >> ANYTHING TO SAY, COMMISSIONER GAINESVILLE? HAVE WE DONE IT ALREADY? YOU GOOD? YOU GOOD, COMMISSIONER

BRODERICK. >>COMMISSIONER BRODERICK: I THINK IT IS A GREAT PROGRAM. I FULLY SUPPORT IT.

A GREAT IDEA. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON'S COMMENTS OF EXPANDING IT TO OTHER AREAS, I THINK THAT IS GREAT AS WELL.

IT IS WONDERFUL. >> THANK YOU.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: TERRIFIC. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING

THIS. >> THANK YOU, ALL.

[5. COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC Any person who wishes to comment on any subject may be heard at this time. Please limit your comments to three (3) minutes or less, as directed by the Mayor, as this section of the Agenda is limited to thirty minutes. The City Commission will not be able to take any official actions under Comments from the Public. Speakers will address the Mayor, Commissioners, and the Public with respect. Inappropriate language will not be tolerated.]

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ALL RIGHTY. >> OKAY.

NEXT WE HAVE COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE PUBLIC -- PLEASE COME FORWARD.

I SEE ONE MILITARY GUY BACK THERE THAT DESERVE AS BANNER,

BUT MARJORY WILL GO FIRST. >> MARJORY HAROLD.

DO I NEED TO GIVE MY ADDRESS? >>MAYOR: NO, WE KNOW WHERE YOU

LIVE. >> I AM SITTING HERE -- I CAME ANYWAY. JUST SOMETHING WAS GOING TO MAKE ME COME TODAY. AND I COME IN, AND I AM OVERJOYED. THE LOW RENT, LITTLE PROPERTY HOUSES THAT YOU WERE SAYING, YOU GOT TO SELL IT TO BUILD IT.

FANTASTIC. THERE ARE SO MANY LITTLE PROPERTIES IN THE LINCOLN PARK COMMUNITY THAT THE LITTLE HOUSE -- AND LITTLE HOUSE DON'T MEAN ONLY TWO PEOPLE CAN LIVE IN IT.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE THIS PROGRAM ON TV, LITTLE HOUSES.

>>MAYOR HUDSON: YEP. >> HEY, WE ARE ON THE WAY.

WE ARE ON THE WAY. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY, EVERY TIME I COME, I AM SO PROUD OF YOU GUYS.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE UP THERE. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.