[a. Email from Walt and Janet Buda thanking Joe Sweat, Marketing Specialist and Shyanne Helms, Communications + Economic Development with their contribution to the immense enjoyment of the Holiday Lights Trolley Tour.]

>> THE FOLLOWNG LETTER WE RECEIVED AN E-MAIL FROM WALT AND JANET BUDA THANKING JOE SWEAT MARKETING SPECIALIST AND SHYANNE HELMS COMMUNICATIONS AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MANAGER WITH THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO THE IMMENSE ENJOYMENT OF THE HOLIDAY LIGHTS TROLLEY TOUR.

[b. Email from Michael Broderick, Director of Property Management, Trident Properties Management thanking Mike Reals, Public Works Director and his team for their prompt repair of a streetlight adjacent to Anytime Fitness on 7th Street.]

WE RECEIVED AN E-MAIL FROM MICHAEL BRODERICK DIRECTOR OF PROPERTY MANAGEMENT WITH TRIDENT PROPERTIES MANAGEMENT THANKING MIKE WHEELS AND HIS TEAM FOR THEIR PROMPT REPAIR OF A STREET LIGHT ADJACENT TO ANYTIME FITNESS ON 7TH STREET. AND NEXT WE HAVE COMMENTS FROM

[8. COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS NOT REQUIRING PUBLIC HEARINGS Any person who wishes to comment on an agenda item which is not under Public Hearings on the Agenda may be heard at this time and must sign up to speak in advance. Please limit your comments to three (3) minutes or less, as directed by the Mayor, as this section of the Agenda is limited to thirty minutes. The City Commission will not be able to take any official actions under Comments from the Public. Speakers will address the Mayor, Commissioners, and the Public with respect. Inappropriate language will not be tolerated.]

[00:05:01]

THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS NOT REQUIRING PUBLIC HEARINGS. >> OKAY.

YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES AND ADDRESS YOUR COMMENTS TO THE MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS WITH RESPECT, WHICH MEANS NO SLANDEROUS REMARKS AND THE CITY, YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES AND

YOU'LL HAVE A WARNING. MISS COX FIVE SECONDS? >> THREE SECONDS.

>> RICK REED. AND WE'RE SIGNING IN, RIGHT, WITH YOUR ADDRESS? PLEASE SIGN IN WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.

>> THIS IS REGARDING ITEM, I THINK 11B AND C WITH REGARDS TO THE AMENDING OF THE CONTRACT AND

THE CITY CLERKS CONTRACT. >> WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME? >> RICK REED.

3625 SOUTH U.S. 1. I THINK THE TAXPAYERS SHOULD BE AWARE THAT, FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE RENEGOTIATING THEIR CONTRACT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE THEIR CONTRACTS.

ONE CONTRACT IS UP NEXT YEAR OR THE END OF THIS YEAR. BLESS YOU.

WE'RE SITTING HERE, RENEGOTIATING THESE CONTRACTS. WE'RE CHANGING THE WAY THAT WE DO BUSINESS IN THE CITY. YOUR CITY CLERK HAS BEEN RECEIVING FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS, SHE MAKES $95,181, THAT'S $260.76 A DAYTIMES EIGHT DAYS TIMES FIVE.

SHE'S RECEIVED $10,430 OF VACATION PAY IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS.

YOU ARE TAKING AWAY THE AUTHORITY OF THE EMPLOYEES THAT WORK IN THESE DEPARTMENTS THAT THE CITY MANAGER SUPERVISES. HE SUPERVISES 333 FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES.

CITY ATTORNEY SUPERVISES 3, THE CITY SUPERVISOR SUPERVISES 3. YOU'RE CHANGING AND TAKING AWAY THE RIGHT OF THE CITY MANAGER TO CONTROL THESE EMPLOYEES THAT WORK IN THESE DEPARTMENTS.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE'S A PERSONNEL ISSUE? WHAT HAPPENS TO THE FORT PIERCE RULES AND REGULATIONS? THIS SAYS INCLUDING ALL, ANY AND ALL PERSONNEL ACTIONS OR DECISIONS. IF THE THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN UNDER MESSER HAPPENED NOW, THE H R DEPARTMENT OR CITY MANAGER WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE. AND THERE'S NO REASON TO MAKE THIS CHANGE. THE CITY PROS PROSPERED FOR OVER 100 YEAR.

NOW YOU'RE GOING TO CHANGE THIS JUST BECAUSE TWO DEPARTMENT HEADS HAVE ASKED FOR EIGHT EXTRA DAYS. MR. SWEENEY MAKES $160,000 A YEAR.

HE DIDN'T READ HIS CONTRACT AND HE WANTS AN ADDITIONAL EIGHT DAYS VACATION PAY.

MISS COX HAS HAD HER VACATION PAY EVEN THOUGH SHE WASN'T ENTITLED TO IT.

SO HERE WE ARE ONCE AGAIN. AND WE'RE ALWAYS TOLD, WHENEVER ANYBODY COME HERE'S AND ASKS FOR ANYTHING, I'M SORRY, WE CAN'T DO IT, IT'S NOT IN THE BUDGET. THIS ISN'T IN THE BUDGET, MAYOR,

AND YOU VOTED FOR IT. >> THE WHOLE COMMISSION -- >> I AM ADDRESSING.

YOU ARE THE MAYOR. I AM ADDRESSING THE COMMISSION. SO ONCE AGAIN IT'S NOT IN THE BUDGET, BUT IT'S SOMETHING YOU LIKE, SO YOU'VE DECIDED TO DO IT.

IT'S WRONG. YOU WANT TO RENEGOTIATE THEIR CONTRACTS, RENEGOTIATE NEXT YEAR WHEN THEY'RE DUE. ALSO, MR. SWEENEY IS SUPPOSED TO MOVE TO FORT PIERCE.

HE STILL RESIDES IN VERO BEACH. >> THAT'S THE END OF PUBLIC COMMENT.

NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THE CONSENT AGENDA. >> IS THERE ANY COMMISSIONER WHO

WANTS TO REMOVE ANY ITEMS? >> B AND C. OOPS.

SORRY. >> I'M SORRY, MAYOR. I SKIPPED ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS

TO THE AGENDA. >> BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. I CAN SEE WHY WE SKIPPED IT.

BEFORE WE DO THAT, IS THERE ANY ITEM THAT ANY COMMISSIONER WANTS TO CHANGE OR MOVE?

[9. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS TO AGENDA AND APPROVAL OF AGENDA]

>> MOVE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA. >> SECOND. >> THERE'S A MOTION AND SECOND.

>> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER. >> YES. >> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON.

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER PERONA. >> YES, MA'AM.

[11. CONSENT AGENDA]

>> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS. >> YES, MA'AM. >> MAYOR HUDSON?

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER? >> I WOULD LIKE TO PULL THESE TWO ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION AMONGST, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE -- I HAVEN'T HAD A DISCUSSION WITH MY ATTORNEY.

[00:10:02]

I WASN'T AWARE LAST CONFERENCE THAT WE WERE RENEGOTIATING HIS CON CONTRACT. I JUST WOULD RATHER PULL THIS ITEM HERE UNTIL I HAVE SOME CONSENSUS ON THIS. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE MADE A CONSENSUS THAT WE BRING THIS

BACK AS SUCH, WHO NEGOTIATED IT. >> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, FIRST OF ALL B AND C?

>> B AND C. WHO NEGOTIATED THESE CONTRACTS? >> MADAM MAYOR?

>> COMMISSIONER PERONA? >> I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE 11A.

>> I'LL SECOND IT. >> COMMISSIONER SANDEER? >> YES.

>> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER PERONA.

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS? >> YES, MA'AM.

>> MAYOR HUDSON? >> YES, MA'AM. >> I'LL READ 11B AND C.

SO 11B, I'LL KEEP THESE TOGETHER, IF THAT'S OKAY. >> WAIT A MINUTE.

I ASKED FOR THESE ITEMS TO BE PULLED. >> YES, SIR.

>> WHY WOULD WE BE READING THEM? >> WHENEVER WE PULL AN ITEM, I ALWAYS READ IT AND THEN YOU GUYS DISCUSS IT SO THAT WAY THE PUBLIC KNOWS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> IF I WANTED IT TO BE PUBLIC, I WOULD HAVE MADE IT KNOWN THAT I WANT THIS ITEM TO BE PUBLIC.

I CARE NOT FOR THIS TO BE A PUBLIC ■ITEMBECAUSE SOMEOF THE QUESTIONS THAT MIGHT NEED TO BE ANSWERED MIGHT NOT BE NEED FOR THE PUBLIC. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.

I'M JUST ONE COMMISSIONER. >> WELL, I THINK -- >> I THINK IN DISCUSSING THEM INDIVIDUALLY, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T GET INTO A DETAILED DISCUSSION, I THINK WE NEED TO POINT OUT THAT WE ARE HAVING IT REMOVED FOR CONSIDERATION LATER SO EVEN TO DO WHAT YOU'RE SPEAKING OF, COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER, I THINK IT'S NECESSARY THAT SHE READS THEM

INTO THE RECORD. >> I DON'T CONCUR. >> MISS COX.

>> 11B IS APPROVAL OF AN AMENDED EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT FOR CITY CLERK TO CLARIFY LEAD ALLOCATION AND RECOGNITION OF ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE FOR CHARTER OFFICERS AND THEIR OFFICES AS DIRECTED AT THE DECEMBER 9TH CONFERENCE AGENDA. AND ITEM 11C IS APPROVAL OF AMENDED EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY TO CLARIFY LEAVE ALLOCATION AND RECOGNITION OF ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE FOR CHARTER OFFICES AND THEIR OFFICERS AS DIRECTED AT THE

DECEMBER 9TH CONFERENCE AGENDA. >> NOW, COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER. >> WELL, AGAIN, I CARE NOT TO DISCUSS IT IN THE PUBLIC. MY QUESTIONS ARE, IS THE SWEENEY'S CURRENT CONTRACT, HOW

LONG WAS HIS CURRENT -- HOW LONG IS YOUR CURRENT CONTRACT? >> MR. SWEENEY?

>> MAYOR, COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER, MY CONTRACT IS A THREE-YEAR CONTRACT.

ACTUALLY, TODAY IS THE END OF THE FIRST YEAR. >> FIRST YEAR.

>> FIRST YEAR, THAT'S CORRECT. >> SO YOU ARE RENEGOTIATING YOUR CONTRACT AS OF TONIGHT?

>> I'M NOT RENEGOTIATING ANYTHING. I'M FOLLOWING THE DIRECTION FROM

THE CONFERENCE AGENDA. >> WHAT I READ HERE IN THE FOLLOW-UP MATERIAL THAT TONIGHT

STARTS A NEW THREE YEAR. >> TONIGHT STARTS A NEW -- YES, THAT'S CORRECT, IT DOES START A

NEW EFFECTIVE DATE FOR THE CONTRACT, THAT'S CORRECT. >> SAY THAT AGAIN.

>> IT DOES START A NEW EFFECTIVE DATE FOR THE CONTRACT. IT SAYS IT IN MISS COX CONTRACT,

POLICE CHIEF'S CONTRACT. >> I'M ONLY WORRIED ABOUT MR. SWEENEY.

>> MY CONTRACT, THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT, IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT IT, SIR.

IT SAYS ANY CHANGES MUST BE IN WRITING AND SUPERCEDE VERSIONS AND MAKES A NEW EFFECTIVE DATE.

>> I DON'T WANT TO GO OVER THIS IN THE PUBLIC. IF YOU WANT TO TAKE ME THERE, I WILL GO. MY QUESTION IS, WHY WOULD YOU -- IT'S A YEAR TODAY.

TODAY IS A YEAR? >> YES, SIR. >> SO YOU WANT TO RENEGOTIATE YOUR CONTRACT AFTER A YEAR? I'M ASKING THE QUESTION. THAT'S WHAT THIS --

>> YES, SIR. MADAM MAYOR, IF I MAY CONTINUE. THERE ARE TWO CHANGES.

ONE CHANGE CLARIFY RESPONSIBILITIES, RULES AND RIGHTS OF THE THREE CHARTER OFFICERS RESPECTIVELY AS DISCUSSED AND DIRECTED, I BELIEVE, CLEARLY, FROM THE

CONFERENCE AGENDA. >> I DON'T WANT YOU TO GET OFFENDED.

I DON'T WANT YOU TO GET IRATE EITHER. BUT MY QUESTION IS, THIS WAS NOT

[00:15:02]

A BUDGET ITEM SO WHERE ARE THESE COMING FROM? I HAVE TWO COMMISSIONERS UP HERE THAT COUNT EVERY PENNY, YOU KNOW? THEY COUNT A PENNY WHEN WE TRAVEL. GAS PENNIES. WHERE ARE THESE DOLLARS COMING

FROM? >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT FISCAL IMPACT THERE IS, SIR.

THE SALARY THAT I MAKE RIGHT NOW, THAT DIDN'T CHANGE AT ALL. >> SO YOUR PRESENCE HERE IN THE

CITY HALL FOR EIGHT DAYS DON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE? >> I DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS EIGHT

DAYS CAME FROM. >> WHAT IS IT THAT YOU'RE ASKING?

>> HE RECEIVES 23 DAYS -- >> WHAT I'M ASKING IS THAT IT BE RECOGNIZED AS THE SAME AS THE CITY MANAGER WHICH I ASKED AT THE CONFERENCE AGENDA AND I BELIEVE THAT WAS DIRECTED.

IF MR. MIMS HAS 23 DAYS OF VACATION, THEN I SHOULD RECEIVE IT, OR IF HE HAS 20.

I DON'T KNOW. >> MR. MIMS HAS 300 EMPLOYEES UNDER HIM AND YOU HAVE 3.

>> YOU'RE CORRECT, SIR. YOU ARE CORRECT. >> I MEAN, HOW DO YOU WEAR THAT? I DON'T WANT TO PUT MR. MIMS IN THIS. I DON'T WANT TO PUT MISS COX IN THIS BECAUSE SHE'S NEXT. I WANT TO KNOW WHO RENEGOTIATED HER CONTRACT.

WHO APPROVED ALL THESE AMENDMENTS? >> THERE ARE TWO AMENDMENTS,

SIR. >> WHO DREW THESE UP? >> I DREW MINE UP AND TO MAKE IT

CONSISTENT, I PROVIDED AN ECONOMY TO MISS COX. >> MR. SWEENEY, YOU SAID THERE ARE TWO CHANGES. COULD YOU IDENTIFY THOSE TWO CHANGES?

CLARIFY THOSE? >> YES, SIR, ABSOLUTELY. IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT, YOU WOULD SEE ON THE PROPOSED AMENDED EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT ON PAGE 2.

THERE IS BOLDED LANGUAGE. I'LL READ IT OUT LOUD. THE CITY ATTORNEY RECOGNIZED AS AN INDEPENDENT AND CO-EQUAL CHARTER OFFICER SPECIFIED BY THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE. NO OTHER CHARTER OFFICER SHALL HAVE AN AUTHORITY OR ABILITY TO DIRECT, SUPERVISE OR INTERFERE WITH THE ADMINISTRATION OR ACTIVITY OF THE OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY INCLUDING ANY AND ALL PERSONNEL ACTIONS OR DECISIONS, SEE ARTICLE IV SECTION 42 AND ARTICLE V SECTION 45 OF THE CHARTER. THAT IS THE FIRST CHANGE.

THE SECOND CHANGE IS ON PAGE 4 AT THE BOTTOM UNDER BENEFITS. UNDER SUBSECTION A.

THERE IS A HIGHLIGHTED SENTENCE. IT SAYS NOW SWEENEY SHALL BE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE THE SAME VACATION, SICK LEAVE AND HOLIDAY TIME AS THE CITY MANAGER. AND THAT IS IT.

THERE WERE SOME TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS IN THE FORMER VERSION THAT WERE CLEANED UP, IF THERE WERE A COMMA IN THE WRONG PLACE OR PERIOD BUT SUBSTANTIVELY THOSE ARE THE ONLY CHANGES.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT. COUPLE COMMENTS ON THAT.

WE HAD THIS CONFERENCE AGENDA DISCUSSION AND WE DID TALK ABOUT THESE ITEMS. WE NEEDED TO CLARIFY SOME THINGS FROM THE CHARTER, FROM THE CITY'S CHARTER.

LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE DONE THAT. THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE THOUGH, IS THERE ANY PART OF THIS CONTRACT THAT WOULD IDENTIFY HOW YOU ADMINISTER YOUR STAFF? HERE'S THE QUESTION. IT TALKS ABOUT THING LIKES HUMAN RESOURCES COORDINATION AND/OR THE HANDBOOK AND EMPLOYEE REGULATIONS THAT REPORT TO YOU DIRECTLY.

OR HOW ABOUT THEIR EVALUATIONS OF THOSE EMPLOYEES? IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS

CONTRACT THAT ADDRESSES THOSE ITEMS? >> THERE'S NOTHING SPECIFICALLY THAT SAYS THE CITY ATTORNEYS OFFICE HAS A SEPARATE PERSONNEL RULES AND REGULATIONS.

IN FACT, IT SAYS ESSENTIALLY THAT SHALL I ADMINISTER IN THE DUE INTEREST OF THE CITY, I'M PARAPHRASING. BUT, YES, AS FAR AS THAT GOES, IT WOULD BE -- IN FACT, IT'S IN THE SAME SECTION I JUST SAID. BENEFITS SHALL BE FOUND IN THE PERSONNEL RULES AND REGULATIONS.

SO IT'S PREDICATED ON THE FACT THAT ALL OF THAT WOULD BE GOVERNED BY EVERYTHING ELSE.

IT'S JUST SIMPLY THAT I CAN'T FIRE ANY OR DEMOTE OR PROMOTE ANY OF THE 300 PLUS EMPLOYEES THAT REPORT TO MR. MIMS AND THAT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WORK FOR ME.

AND IT SHOULD BE RECIPROCAL AND RESPECTIVE POSITION. >> I APPRECIATE THAT.

SOME OF THE -- RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A COHESIVE GROUP. SAY AT SOME TIME IT WAS NOT SO COHESIVE WITHIN CITY HALL AND THERE WERE SOME DIFFERENCES OF OPINION.

[00:20:05]

WHAT I DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN LATER ON AT ANY TIME IS TO HAVE THREE CHARTER OFFICERS WITH THREE DIFFERENT I.T. DEPARTMENTS WITH THREE DIFFERENT HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENTS.

DO YOU SEE WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT? >> YES, SIR.

>> IF WE'RE GOING TO CLARIFY OR AMEND A CONTRACT, MAYBE WE SHOULD DO IT A LITTLE MORE WORD SMITHS ON HOW WE PARAPHRASE THE CHANGE THAT'S THERE. IF WE CAN EVEN DO THAT.

OR IF WE CAN ADD A PARAGRAPH WITHIN THAT SECTION. WOULD BE THE ONLY RECOMMENDATION THAT I HAVE. JUST FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE ON MANY LEVELS. I CAN SEE WHERE THAT CAN COME TO AN ISSUE IF THERE WERE SOME DISAGREEMENTS, YOU KNOW? I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'VE DONE SO FAR.

IT CLARIFIES IT. WE DID HAVE SOME OLD CHARTER LANGUAGE.

THERE WAS A RESOLUTION THAT WE READ THAT WAS A DISCREPANCY WITH THE CHARTER FROM HOWEVER MANY YEARS AGO, WHICH, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T AGREE WITH THAT EITHER. THE CHARTER'S THE CHARTER.

IF WE NEED TO CHANGE IT, WE DO IT IN WHATEVER ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER WE NEED TO DO THAT.

BUT I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'VE PRESENTED SO FAR. IF THERE'S SOME OTHER INFORMATION THAT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS NEED TO HAVE, THEN LET'S GET THAT INFORMATION, IF WE NEED TO GET MORE INFORMATION, S SIR.

>> AGAIN, AS COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER POINTED OUT, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR CITY ATTORNEY, IN TERMS OF THEIR PERSONAL PERFORMANCE. HOWEVER, A HOUSE DIVIDED WILL NOT STAND. AND IF WE HAVE A CITY MANAGER THAT WE HAVE HIRED TO GOVERN AND MANAGE OUR CITY, HOWEVER, A PORTION OF THE EMPLOYEES WILL NOT BE UNDER HIS AUSPICES, WE'RE SETTING OURSELVES UP TO FAIL. GIVE YOU A PRIME EXAMPLE. IF, IN FACT, THE SITUATION WITH ATTORNEY MESSER DID NOT GO THE WAY IT DID, WE WOULD BE IN A VERY SERIOUS CONFLICT.

PERHAPS IF HE WERE IN POSITION TO OVERRIDE THE HR DEPARTMENT AND DOING INVESTIGATION AND THING OF THAT NATURE. WE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN -- HE COULD HAVE MADE THE DECISION AND WE COULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT. IF WE HAVE A CITY MANAGER, AND THIS NEEDS TO HAVE MORE DETAILS IN IT, IN TERMS OF ADDRESSING THE SPECIFICS, SO THAT IF WE GET DOWN THAT ROAD. EVERYTHING IS WORKING FINE, WELL AND DANDY AND IS ROSES RIGHT NOW. BUT LET'S FACE IT, CONFLICTS ARISE.

SO WE, AS A GOVERNING BODY, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PUT A POLICY IN PLACE THAT WILL MAKE SURE THAT THINGS CONTINUE TO RIDE OUT ACCORDINGLY. WITH THIS ALONE, IT JUST SETS US UP. THERE ARE TOO MANY GRAY AREAS HERE THAT COULD COME BACK TO HAUNT US. I MEAN SPECIFICALLY PARAGRAPH 2 ON PAGE 2.

NOT TO MENTION THE MORALE OF THE OTHER EMPLOYEES, THE REMAINING 300 SOMETHING, I THINK 300 SOMETHING THAT ARE GOVERNED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY. IF THERE ARE GOING TO BE EXCEPTIONS GIVEN TO THE EMPLOYEES UNDER OUR CHARTER OF OFFICES, THE MORALE IS GOING TO -- TRUST ME, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO WORK LIKE THEY SHOULD AROUND HERE. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS SEND BOTH OF THESE BACK. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT PERHAPS OUR CITY CLERK OR OUR CITY ATTORNEY KNOWS.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER WAS GOING WITH THIS.

THAT WE CAN SPEAK WITH THEM TO JUSTIFY SOME OF THESE CHANGES, THEN SO BE IT.

BUT, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO A CONTRACT OF A CITY MANAGER -- AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.

WE'RE PUTTING THEM UNDER THE SAME AUSPICES OF THE CITY MANAGER.

I'M NOT GOING TO ALLOW YOU ALL TO COME IN HERE AND PUT THE CITY MANAGER'S CONTRACT ON A CONSENT

[00:25:06]

AGENDA WITHOUT IT BEING DISCUSSED. AND I NEED AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH HIM IN THAT REGARD, THE CITY MANAGER, REGARDING THOSE CHANGES.

SO IF OUR GOAL HERE IS TO ACCOMPLISH THAT, SO LET'S MAKE SURE WE DO THAT AND TREAT THEM LIKE WE WOULD THE CITY MANAGER. SO TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, LET'S SEND IT BACK TO THE BACK ROOM. YOU ALL MAKE A MEETING, SIT DOWN WITH ME WHEN AVAILABLE, LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS CONTRACT. LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS INCREASE IN TIME.

I HAVE HEARD JUSTIFICATIONS THAT -- AND I HAVE ONLY HEARD, THE ONLY THING IS THAT THE CITY MANAGER IS ALLOWED TO GET THIS. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR A LITTLE MORE JUSTIFICATION THAT WOULD GIVE ME A BETTER RATIONALE TO DEFEND THIS TO THE PUBLIC, OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THE CITY MANAGER -- BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA LOOK AT ME AND SAY, THAT'S THE CITY MANAGER, HE RUNS THE CITY, SO HE SHOULD BE. I THINK SOMEBODY POINTED OUT EARLIER, I THINK COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER SAID IT, THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES THAT HE PRESIDES OVER VERSUS OUR CLERK AND OUR CITY ATTORNEY. I CAN'T JUSTIFY THAT. BUT I WANT TO TALK TO THEM.

Y'ALL PULL ME IN THE BACK ROOM AND LET'S TALK ABOUT IT AND SEE WHAT WE COME UP WITH.

>> COMMISSIONER PERONA. >> CITY COMMISSION HAS THREE EMPLOYEES, AND THOSE THREE EMPLOYEES, FROM TIME TO TIME, WE HAVE TO DO PERFORMANCE EVALUATIONS.

THOSE PERFORMANCE EVALUATIONS, BASICALLY, TO ME ARE A REFLECTION OF THE DEPARTMENT.

AND THE DEPARTMENT SHOULD BE OUR CHARTER OFFICER WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THEIR DEPARTMENT NEEDS TO BE IN CHARGE OF THEIR EMPLOYEES, THEIR HIRING, THE ACTIVITIES, AND EVERYTHING.

BECAUSE WHEN IT'S ALL OVER WITH, THAT BECOMES THE PRODUCT THAT WE EVALUATE.

IT JUST MESSES EVERYTHING UP WHEN YOU HAVE THE EMPLOYEES BEING UNDER THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CITY MANAGER AND YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE COMMISSION AND SOMETIMES, AND WE HAVE HAD ISSUES WHERE THIS GOT IN THE WAY. I THOUGHT WE CLEARED ALL THAT UP. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT A CONFERENCE AGENDA.

I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IN THIS AMENDMENT THAT IS DIFFERENT, OR INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE

DISCUSSED. IS THAT RIGHT? >> I WAS FOLLOWING DIRECTION TO

THE LETTER. >> WE HAD A CONSENSUS. WE KNOW THAT THESE ISSUES ARE THERE. TO YOUR POINT, COMMISSIONER SESSIONS AND, YEAH, WE MIGHT HAVE MISSED SOMETHING. THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING OUT THERE.

BUT WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO REVISIT THIS AND TO BE ABLE TO MOVE IT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. WE'VE CHANGED THE WAY THAT WE'VE DONE THINGS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. WE USED TO HAVE AN OUTSIDE ATTORNEY.

NOW WE HAVE AN INSIDE ATTORNEY. HE'S BEEN HERE A WHOLE YEAR. CONGRATULATIONS, BY THE WAY.

BUT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE WITH THAT. WE'RE FINDING OUT ONE OF THE THINGS, AND ONE OF YOUR STRONG POINTS, MR. SWEENEY, IS THAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH A 100-YEAR-OLD CITY AND IDENTIFYING THINGS THAT JUST DON'T MAKE SENSE ANYMORE.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THE ONES THAT I AGREE WITH YOU, THAT THIS DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE ANY MORE.

I'M GOING TO EVALUATE THE CLERK. I'M GOING TO EVALUATE THE CITY MANAGER AND EVALUATE THE CITY ATTORNEY AND I EXPECT THEIR TEAM TO BE TOTAL RESPONSIBLE TO EACH ONE OF THOSE CHARTER OFFICERS.

I DON'T WANT THEM EMPLOYED BY ANYBODY ELSE. I WANT LINDA COX TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO HER STAFF AS IF SHE IS THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT, AND SHE IS.

THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. AND IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH IT, WE'LL FIX IT LATER.

BUT I THOUGHT THIS WAS A REFLECTION OF EXACTLY WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE CONFERENCE AGENDA. I THINK YOU HAD AN ABSOLUTE CONSENSUS TO BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD. WE DID. HERE IT IS.

IT'S ON THE CONSENT AGENDA BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS.

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, I'M READY TO GO. >> YES, I WAS REMEMBERING, TOO, THAT WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION. THIS CAME ABOUT BECAUSE OF WE HAD PREVIOUSLY OUTSIDE COUNSEL.

AND WE KNEW WHEN WE BROUGHT COUNSEL INSIDE AS AN EMPLOYEE, THAT IT WAS STILL A CHARTER OFFICER, BUT WE KNEW THERE WOULD BE THINGS THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAT WE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY CATCH ALL THE TIME. WHAT I THINK STARTED THIS DISCUSSION WAS A SITUATION WHERE MR. SWEENEY WAS NOT GETTING -- HE WAS GETTING BASICALLY THE KIND OF VACATION ACCRUAL THAT WAS FOR A FIRST YEAR EMPLOYEE THAT WAS NOT IN A MANAGEMENT POSITION.

[00:30:03]

IS THAT CORRECT? >> THAT'S CORRECT, MA'AM. >> THAT NEEDED TO BE CORRECTED.

AND FROM THAT DISCUSSION, AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT WAS DELIBERATE OR ANYBODY DID THAT ON PURPOSE. IT WAS JUST HAPPENING. MR. SWEENEY, I BELIEVE, IN DISCUSSION WITH THE CITY MANAGER, THE CITY MANAGER SUGGESTED HE GO TO THE COMMISSION BECAUSE HE'S A CHARTER OFFICER AND HE WORKS FOR THE COMMISSION.

SO THIS IS WHAT STARTED THIS DISCUSSION. AND IN THE PROCESS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DISCUSSED WAS THAT CHARTER OFFICERS THAT ALL WORK FOR US, WE HIRED THEM.

THEY HAVE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR THEM. WE CAN'T TELL THE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR THEM WHAT TO DO. WE CAN ONLY TELL THREE PEOPLE WHAT TO DO, PLUS THE AUDITOR, WHO IS NOT ON STAFF. WE FLUSHED OUT THAT DISCUSSION. AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THE PERSONNEL RULES AND REGS ARE WHAT THE CHARTER OFFICERS HAVE TO FOLLOW. THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW THEM. AND SO WE'RE NOT PLACING ANY EMPLOYEES ANY LESS OF A SITUATION THAN ANY OTHER EMPLOYEE.

AND SO PERHAPS ON PAGE 2, WE COULD SPELL THAT OUT SO THAT THE PERSONNEL RULES AND REGS APPLY TO ALL EMPLOYEES. ALSO, CITIES ALL OVER FLORIDA HAVE THIS DISCUSSION ALL THE TIME. THIS IS A CONSTANT DISCUSSION BETWEEN -- BECAUSE CHARTER OFFICERS ARE HIRED BY COMMISSIONS. AND SO EVERYBODY DEALS WITH THIS KIND OF WAY OF MAKING SURE THAT EVERYBODY'S TREATED FAIRLY, BUT EVERYBODY'S TREATED APPROPRIATELY. SO THE COMMISSION WANTED OUR CHARTER OFFICERS TO BE TREATED EQUALLY. AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE TODAY.

PERHAPS WE CAN MAKE THAT LANGUAGE JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEARER ON PAGE 2 SO THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT ALL EMPLOYEES ARE PROTECTED BY THE PERSONNEL RULES AND REGS.

BUT COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, GO AHEAD. >> YES, MA'AM.

JUST TO ADD TO THAT. WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT IN OUR HANDBOOK MODIFICATION.

'CAUSE FROM TIME TO TIME THE HANDBOOK DOES GET MODIFIED AND UPDATED.

THAT MIGHT BE A VERY SIMPLE ADDITION TO THE HANDBOOK POLICY MANUAL.

THAT WAS MY CONCERN. I JUST WANTED TO SPELL IT OUT AND TALK ABOUT IT TODAY TO SAY WHAT IF SCENARIO OF SORTS. YOU MENTIONED OTHER CITIES. I AGREE THAT OTHER CITIES DO THE SAME THING. THEY HAVE THE SAME ISSUE AND CHALLENGE.

AND I KNOW FOR SURE THAT 64, 65 OF THE 67 COUNTIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA HAVE THIS IN PLACE.

THEY HAVE A COUNTY MANAGER, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, COUNTY ATTORNEY AND THEY HAVE A CLERK.

IN OUR COUNTY, IT'S CLERK OF COURT, WHICH IS AN ELECTED POSITION.

COUNTY ATTORNEY, HIRED BY THIS COUNTY COMMISSION, AND COUNTY COMMISSION.

IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'VE GOT HERE, IN THAT SENSE. EACH OF THE EMPLOYEES THAT WORK WITHIN THAT CHARTER OFFICER POSITION REPORTS TO THAT CHARTERED OFFICER.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE IN THIS CASE. WE HAD A LENGTHY DISCUSSION ABOUT IT. I THINK MAYBE IN OUR HANDBOOK, WE COULD SPELL IT OUT, JUST SO

THE EMPLOYEE KNOW, IF THERE'S A QUESTION, EVER. >> I HAVE A QUESTION.

>> YES, SIR. >> THE QUESTION COME UP THAT IN THE CONFERENCE AGENDA WE ARE NOT TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS AT THAT CONFERENCE EVER. WE MAKE CONSENSUS, BUT AT THAT CONFERENCE AGENDA, MR. SWEENEY DIDN'T COME AND SAY THAT HE WANTED TO RENEGOTIATE HIS CONTRACT. AND THAT'S WHAT -- WHEN I STARTED READING THIS, I'M JUST POPPING OFF QUESTIONS THAT I WANT TO ASK. IT WOULDN'T HURT MR. SWEENEY TO STOP BY THE OFFICE, 'CAUSE I ASKED FOR THESE AMENDMENTS THE DAY AFTER THE CONFERENCE AGENDA.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I'M ONE OF FIVE COMMISSIONERS. I'M DUE SOME RESPECT.

I'M GOING TO DEMAND SOME RESPECT. AND IF HE CAN'T STOP BY MY OFFICE, HE WALKS RIGHT BY MY OFFICE EVERY DAY, THE WAY WE SPEAK.

WE'RE CORDIAL. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST SWEENEY.

BUT IT'S THE PUBLIC THAT I REPRESENT. I REPRESENT THE WHOLE CITY OF FORT PIERCE. AND IF I CAN'T ASK A QUESTION, THEN I HAVE A PROBLEM.

[00:35:06]

I'M GONNA ASK IT ANYWAY. >> AND I THINK, ULTIMATELY, WE MAY ACCOMPLISH AND HE FOLLOWED INSTRUCTIONS ACCORDING TO WHAT WAS GIVEN TO HIM FROM THE CONFERENCE AGENDA.

AND SO BE IT. YOU FOLLOWED YOUR INSTRUCTIONS. HOWEVER, IT'S ESSENTIAL THAT ALL OF US HAVE SOME INPUT, I BELIEVE, ON CERTAIN ITEMS. AND THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, AS COMMISSIONER PERONA POINTED OUT, WE CAN DO IT LATER. I'D LIKE TO CIRCUMVENT IT AND TAKE CARE OF SOME PROBLEMS NOW. I DON'T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL IT EXPLODES AND DO IT LATER, IF WE CAN. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN POINTED OUT, EVEN IN THIS DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON POINT OUT SOME THINGS THAT MADE SOME SENSE. THERE'S SOME ISSUES OUT THERE THAT WE NEED TO DEAL WITH, THE PARTICULARS, BECAUSE THIS IS TOO GREAT, THAT WOULD CIRCUMVENT SOME POTENTIAL PROBLEMS. I JUST FEEL THAT RIGHT NOW IF WE APPROVE THIS ON ITS FACE, IT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

WHAT'S THE POTENTIAL HARM IN REVIEWING IT VERSUS WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY HAPPEN IF WE DON'T AND PUT IT OUT THERE IS SLIM TO NONE. SO THERE'S NO QUESTION IN MY MIND THAT JUST PUTTING THIS OFF, ALL OF US HAVING INPUT, LIKE WE DO.

WE HAD INPUT ON THE CHIEF'S CONTRACT. ALL OF US DID.

WE WAITED HALF A DAY. SO TO PUT THESE CONTRACTS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, ESPECIALLY -- AGAIN, I'M NOT SO MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT THE MONEY ASPECT, OTHER THAN THE FACT I WANT TO KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO COME FROM AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO PAY FOR IT.

IT'S THE ITEM THERE WITH THESE EMPLOYEES HERE. SETTING PRECEDENCE WITH ALLOWING A PORTION OF OUR EMPLOYEES NOT TO BE GOVERNED BY OUR CITY MANAGER.

YOU POINTED OUT WITH THE COUNTY, CLERK OF COURT, THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.

THEY ALL HAVE DIFFERENT HR DEPARTMENTS. THAT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'RE DEALING HERE WITH. THEY HAVE INDEPENDENT, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, HR DEPARTMENTS.

BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO HAVE A REGIME OF EMPLOYEES WITH THE CITY MANAGER IS OVER THE HR DEPARTMENT, THAT SAME HR DEPARTMENT IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GOVERN A PORTION OF THESE EMPLOYEES. AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE? MAYBE SO.

BUT AGAIN, LET'S TALK. MAYBE OUR CITY ATTORNEY CAN SHOW ME OTHERWISE.

I JUST DON'T SEE IT. THAT'S IT FOR ME. >> DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT

TO ADD? >> MADAM MAYOR, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR THE CONVERSATION AMONGST ALL THE COMMISSIONERS. I RESPECT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY.

YOU ALL HAVE YOUR POSITIONS. YOU'RE MY BOSSES. YOU ARE MY BOSSES, AS WAS POINTED OUT. BUT AS A BOSS, I'M READING DIRECTLY FROM THE CHARTER.

CITY MANAGER SHALL BE THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE AND ADMINISTRATIVE HEAD OF THE MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT AND SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROPER ADMINISTRATION OF ALL AFAIRS OF THE CITY.

HE SHALL EXERCISE GENERAL SUPERVISION AND CONTROL OVER ALL CITY DEPARTMENTS EXCEPT THE OFFICE OF CITY CLERK, CITY ATTORNEY AND CITY AUDITOR. NOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO INTERPRET THAT IN ANY OTHER WAY THAN I SHOULD HAVE CONTROL, SUPERVISION, OVER MY DEPARTMENT.

I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE MAYBE INEFFICIENCIES THAT COME ALONG WITH THAT WHEN YOU HAVE HR.

BUT THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS EQUATION COULD ALSO HAPPEN. AND UNLESS THIS IS RECOGNIZED, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN FUNCTIONALLY HAVE THREE CO-EQUAL CHARTER OFFICERS.

>> SO DO YOU SEE ANY PROBLEM FOLLOWING THE PERSONNEL RULES AND REGS FOR THE CITY OF FORT

PIERCE? >> NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM IS THERE A SUGGESTION THAT THE PERSONNEL RULES WOULDN'T APPLY TO MY EMPLOYEES. I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S EVER BEEN IMPLIED AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT EBBING EXPLICIT. IF I FOLLOW THEM AND APPLY THEM TO MY EMPLOYEES, I AM NOT OVERRIDDEN BY ANOTHER CHARTER OFFICER.

THE ON PERSONS THAT COULD OVERSIDE ME ARE FIVE OF YOU. >> COMMISSIONERS, YEAH.

>> FUNCTIONALLY, IT HAS TO BE THAT WAY. >> IF I REMEMBER RIGHTLY, ANOTHER REASON THIS CAME ABOUT IS BECAUSE OF AN OLD MEMO 20 YEARS AGO OR SO FROM A CITY

[00:40:01]

MANAGER WHO WAS ASKING THAT HE GET 23 DAYS INSTEAD OF THE STANDARD 20 DAYS, WHICH IS WHAT

DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS GET. AM I REMEMBERING THAT CORRECT? >> THAT'S CORRECT.

THE CITY ATTORNEY WAS NOT EVEN -- HE WAS AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR AT THE TIME.

>> I ALSO REMEMBER IN THE DISCUSSION AT THE CONFERENCE AGENDA, I MADE THE OBSERVATION THAT DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS GET 20 DAYS VACATION WHEN THEY COME IN. I THOUGHT THAT WAS SUITABLE FOR CHARTER OFFICERS MYSELF. AND SO I WOULD LIKE TO DEAL WITH THAT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE.

BECAUSE 23 DAYS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME AT ALL. MISS COX ARE YOU READY TO FOLLOW

THE RULES AND REGS OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE? >> YES.

I HAVE ALL ALONG. THIS IS JUST A PROTECTION SO THAT THE STAFF THAT I NEED TO FULFILL THE DUTIES THAT ARE MY RESPONSIBILITY ARE THE STAFF THAT I CHOOSE AND THAT I CAN

GOVERN ACCORDINGLY. >> MADAM MAYOR? >> YES, SIR.

>> HAS YOUR CONTRACT BEEN RENEWED ALSO? IS IT THAT WAS CONTROLLED BY THE CITY MANAGER'S POSITION. I DON'T KNOW WHY ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE BRANCHED OUT. MAYBE IT WAS EFFICIENCY PURPOSES.

MAYBE IT WAS INEFFICIENCY PURPOSES. I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK IT'S MOST EFFICIENT TO HAVE ONE HR DEPARTMENT AND ONE I.T. DEPARTMENT WITHIN THE CITY.

I THINK WE CAN CHANGE THAT, IF WE REALLY WANTED TO, WHO THEY REPORT TO.

I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO, BUT I THINK WE COULD CHANGE THAT IF WE WANTED TO.

THERE'S NO FISCAL IMPACT. THE SECTION ON COMPENSATION, BASE ANNUAL SALARY INCLUDING COST OF LIVING EVERY SUBSEQUENT YEAR SHALL BE NEGOTIATED BETWEEN PARTIES ON AN ANNUAL BASIS.

ARE THERE ANY CHANGES FISCALLY TO YOUR SALARY? >> LAST YEAR, AS PART OF THE

CITY-WIDE AWARD OF A 3% -- >> AS OF TODAY? IN THIS CONTRACT CHANGE OR UPDATE, IS THERE A CHANGE IN YOUR SALARY TODAY AS IT WOULD BE IF IT WERE APPROVED TONIGHT,

TOMORROW MORNING WOULD IT CHANGE? >> NO, SIR.

[00:45:02]

YOU HIRED ME AT $160,000 A YEAR AGO TODAY. I RECEIVED 3%.

THAT'S $4,800 ON TOP. THAT'S WHY IT SAYS $164,800. >> MISS COX, THE SAME?

>> YES, SIR. >> I MEAN, WE HAVE CONTRACTS IN PLACE RIGHT NOW THAT ARE EFFECTIVELY NOT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S ON PAPER WITH THIS PROPOSED CHANGE.

THERE'S NOT MUCH. COUPLE SENTENCES THAT HAVE BEEN ADDED ON PAGE 2 AND PAGE 4.

ONE CLARIFIES VACATION TIME. COMMISSIONER PERONA, YOU SAID IT.

IT'S WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT. IT'S WHAT WE WERE GIVING STAFF DIRECTION TO COME BACK TO US

WITH. AND IT'S HERE. >> SO WITH THAT, I MAKE A MOTION

TO APPROVE 11B. >> 11B. >> B.

>> SECOND. >> A ROLE, PLEASE. >> ONE MORE DISCUSSION BEFORE WE

CALL ROLL. >> WE CAN BRING THIS BACK AT ANY TIME AND DO IT AGAIN.

WE CAN AMEND IT. WE CAN ADD TO IT. TAKE AWAY FROM IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY. >> I ASSURE YOU, MR. SWEENEY, THAT YOU WILL BE HAPPY TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE COMMISSIONERS WHO HAVE QUESTIONS?

>> AT ANY TIME. >> AND MISS COX ALSO. >> ABSOLUTELY.

>> AFTER THE FACT IS KIND OF SHAKY TO ME. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT. PERIOD. WE HAD EVERYBODY RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS CONTRACT. NOW YOU SAY YOU'RE GONNA BRING IT BACK, BUT YOU'RE BRINGING IT

BACK AT A LATER DATE. ALL RIGHT. >> YOU CAN BRING IT BACK, SIR.

>> NO. YOU BRING IT BACK. >> CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE.

>> DISCUSSION. I HAVE HEARD THE MOTION. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY A COMMISSIONER. AND, AGAIN, I JUST HAVE SOME CONCERNS AND SPECIFICALLY SOME OF THE SAME CONCERNS THAT HE HAS WITH REGARDS TO THE PARTICULARS OF WHAT'S HERE.

THIS ONE PARAGRAPH IS TOO GREAT. IF WE APPROVE THIS AND SAY THAT WE'RE GONNA COME BACK AND UNDO THIS, DO WE REALLY WANT TO SET THAT KIND OF PRECEDENT OUT THERE? I THINK THIS WILL BE MORE HARMFUL THAN ANYTHING, IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'RE DOING.

I THINK THE MORALEE RATE AROUND, AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC'S JUSTIFICATION FOR WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TONIGHT, IT JUST DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH ME. I ANTICIPATE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME ISSUES. AGAIN, I JUST WISH WE COULD GO BACK, LOOK AT THIS, MEET WITH EVERYONE. THIS PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 2 IS JUST A PARAGRAPH THAT I JUST CAN'T SEE JUSTIFICATION BEHIND. THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS -- THAT'S WHY I'M CAREFUL ABOUT CONFERENCE AGENDAS. THINGS POP UP ON THESE CONFERENCE AGENDAS A LOT OF TIMES THAT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY LIKE WE HAVE HERE TONIGHT.

PEOPLE WORK. THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO GIVE INPUT. I GUARANTEE YOU, I JUST SEE IT.

I JUST DON'T SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE THAT WE'RE DOING WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING FROM AN FIDUCIARY STANDPOINT WITHOUT ADDING THE PARTICULARS THAT WE NEED IN THESE AMENDED CONTRACTS, NOT TO SAY THAT WE COULDN'T ACCOMPLISH IT, BUT WE NEED TO PUT MORE DETAILS IN IT TO HEAD OFF SOME THINGS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HAPPEN. WITH THAT BEING SAID, I CAN'T SUPPORT THE MOTION. NOT THAT I'M NOT IN SUPPORT OF THE INDIVIDUALS, BUT I AM AN OFFICER THAT HAS BEEN ELECTED. THERE'S AN FIDUCIARY DUTY THAT WE MAKE SURE POLICIES ARE IN PLACE. AND I JUST CAN'T SEE AN HR DIRECTOR THAT'S MANAGED AND OPERATED BY A CITY MANAGER INDEPENDENTLY IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS FROM THE SAME HANDBOOK -- BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY IT WILL BE ABOUT WHO'S GETTING FIRED AND WHO'S NOT. HANDBOOKS DON'T ADDRESS THAT. PEOPLE KNOCKING ON THE DOOR DISCUSSING THINGS AND HAVING IMPACTS. LET'S FACE IT, WE KNOW HOW POLITICS WORKS. SO TO KEEP EVERYTHING TRANSPARENT AND THE WAY THAT IT SHOULD, IF WE'RE GOING TO ACCOMPLISH THAT, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE TONIGHT, LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT IT EARLIER, CLERK OF COURT AND OTHER DEPARTMENTS IN THE COUNTY, THEY'RE TOTALLY DIFFERENT. WE CAN'T COMPARE APPLES WITH ORANGES.

THOSE PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT HR DEPARTMENTS TO AVOID WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

UNTIL WE PUT SOMETHING IN PLACE, I DON'T FEEL WE'RE GOING TO DO -- WE'RE SETTING OURSELVES UP TO

[00:50:06]

FAIL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOU ALL BEING

PATIENT. >> ONE MORE COMMENT. >> OKAY.

>> THE WAY I READ THAT PARAGRAPH THAT'S IN QUESTION IS, IT'S A RESTATEMENT OF THE CHARTER IN SECTION V AND IV. IT JUST RESTATES THE DIRECT VERBIAGE FROM THE CHARTER OF THE

CITY OF FORT PIERCE. THANK YOU. >> CALL THE ROLL.

>> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER? >> I SUPPORT THE INDIVIDUALS BUT I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS.

NO. >> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> YES, MA'AM.

>> COMMISSIONER PERONA. >> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS?

>> NO, MA'AM. >> MAYOR HUDSON? >> YES, MA'AM.

>> I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE NEXT -- >> MOTION TO APPROVE 11C.

>> DOES THE CLERK HAVE TO READ THAT? >> I THINK SHE DID.

>> I READ THEM TOGETHER. >> SECOND. >> QUESTION?

>> YES, SIR. >> CLERK'S CONTRACT IS NOT THE SAME AS SWEENEY.

HE JUST CAME ON A YEAR TO DATE. AND MISS COX HAS BEEN HERE HOW MANY YEARS?

>> SIX YEARS. >> HER CONTRACT IS ON AN ANNUAL BASIS.

>> THREE YEARS WITH ONE YEAR RENEWALS, JUST LIKE MR. SWEENEY. >> IF YOU PUT ME IN THAT

POSITION -- >> CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE. >> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER.

>> NO. >> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> YES, MA'AM.

>> COMMISSIONER PERONA. >> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS?

>> NO, MA'AM. >> MAYOR HUDSON? >> YES, MA'AM.

[a. Quasi-Judicial Hearing - Review and approval of an application for Conditional Use with new construction submitted by property owners, Stonebridge Senior Living LLC and Applicants Mark Nicholas and Tiffany Rink, to establish an Assisted Living Facility with 42 living units at 4201 S. 25th Street, Fort Pierce, FL.The property is zoned Office Commercial (C-1), Parcel ID: 2432-411-0001-000-2.]

>> OKAY. THE NEXT ITEM IS THE AQUASI JUDICIAL HEARING FOR REPROEFL FOR CONDITIONAL USE WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION SUBMITTED BY PROPERTY OWNERS STONEBRIDGE SENIOR LIVING LLC AND APPLICANTS MARK NICHOLAS AND TIFFANY RINK TO ESTABLISH AN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY WITH 42 LIVING UNITS AT 4201 SOUTH 25TH STREET IN FORT PIERCE.

>> THE CITY COMMISSIONER SERVES A LEGISLATIVE AND QUASI JUDICIAL ROLE.

THE COMMISSION ENGAGES IN LAW MAKING ACTIVITY BY PASSING LAWS AND ESTABLISHING POLICIES.

WHEN ACTS AS A QUASI JUDICIAL BODY IT IS HELD TO STRICTER POLICY.

QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS ARE MORE FULL THAN THE NORMAL OFFICIAL MEETING.

QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEED -- THEREFORE, COMMISSIONERS HAVE A DUTY TO CONDUCT THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDING MORE LIKE A JUDGE THAN A LEGISLATOR. THAT IS WHY THE COMMISSION ESTABLISHED THE UNIFORM PROCEDURES FOR QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS THAT WILL BE FOLLOWED

THIS EVENING. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THESE PROCEEDINGS ARE NOW IN ORDER. CITY CLERK, CAN YOU CONFIRM COMPLIANCE WITH THE ADVERTISING

AND NOTICE REQUIREMENT. >> YES, MA'AM. THE ADVERTISING REQUIREMENTS FOR

THIS MEETING HAVE BEEN MET. >> AT THIS TIME ANY X PARTE COMMUNICATIONS SHOULD BE

DISCLOSED. WOULD YOU CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE. >> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER.

>> NO. >> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> NO, MA'AM.

>> COMMISSIONER PERONA? >> NO, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS?

>> NO, MA'AM, I DON'T RECALL. >> MAYOR HUDSON? >> NO, MA'AM.

WE WILL NOW PROCEED WITH THE HEARING. WOULD YOU SWEAR IN THE

WITNESSES, PLEASE? >> YES, MA'AM. WOULD ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM PLEASE STAND AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. THANK YOU.

DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TREAT? THANK YOU. WHEN YOU COME FORWARD TO SPEAK, WE'LL ASK THAT YOU STATE YOUR NAME CLEARLY FOR THE RECORD AND SIGN IN ON THE SHEET ON THE PODIUM.

>> CITY STAFF WILL NOW MAKE ITS PRESENTATION. THIS IS THE TIME FOR QUESTIONS OF STAFF AND THE COMMISSION. STAFF HAS A MAXIMUM OF 20 MINUTES EXCLUDEING

CROSS-EXAMINATION OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION. >> GOOD EVENING.

THIS IS A CONDITIONAL USE APPLICATION WHICH INCLUDES DEVELOPMENT REVIEW AND DESIGN REVIEW FOR THE PROPERTY AT 4201 SOUTH 25TH STREET. THE APPLICANT AND OWNER IS SEEKING TO OPERATE AN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF SOUTH 25TH STREET.

THERE'S APPROXIMATELY 1.4 ACRES. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY HAS A FUTURE LAND USE

[00:55:02]

OF LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND IS FOR CURRENT ZONING OF OFFICE COMMERCIAL C-1.

IT CONSISTS OF 25223 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED IN 2018 FOR A 26,926 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING. THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING APPROVAL TO INCREASE FROM THE 32 UNITS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED. THERE WILL BE TWO PHASES, 21 UNITS, SECOND PHASE ADDITIONAL 21 UNITS. THERE WILL BE 22 PARKING SPACES.

FOR DESIGN REVIEW, THE BUILDING WILL CONSIST OF A ONE STORY BUILDING.

WILMINGTON TAN COLOR STUCCO, TARA COT TA METAL ROOF, HOUSE BROOK BROWN PAINTED TRIM, LANDSCAPING WILL INCLUDE FIVE HOLLIES THREE CASIOS, FOUR CABBAGE PALMS, TWO CHINESE FAN PALMS. ONCE AGAIN THIS IS FOR THE CONSIDERATION OF THE ADDITIONAL TEN UNITS TO THE ONE STORY 25,222 SQUARE FOOT ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.

STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL. THERE WERE 27 NOTIFICATIONS MAILED TO ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN 500 FEET. THREE WERE IN FAVOR WHICH IS 11.1%, TWO WERE IN OPPOSITION, 7.4% AND ONE WAS UNDECIDED 3.7%. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BECAUSE OF THE PROPOSED USE PRESENTS THE PROVISION OF PUBLIC HOUSING FOR THE ELDERLY AND ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY REPRESENTING LIMITED COMMERCIAL USE COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND PLAN WITH APPROPRIATE RESTRICTION.

THEREFORE, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE CITY COMMISSION APPROVE. THE PLANNING BOARD 2019 VOTED 4-0 TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE CONDITIONAL USE. AND THESE ARE THE POSSIBLE ACTIONS OF THE CITY COMMISSION. APPROVAL, NO CHANGES. APPROVAL WITH CHANGES.

DISAPPROVAL OF THE CONDITIONAL USE. THANK YOU.

>> QUESTIONS OF STAFF? ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF? YES, SIR?

>> I HAVE ONE. DOES THE APPLICANT, IS THE APPLICANT AWARE THAT THE PROJECT

IS IN THE VICINITY OF AN INDUSTRIAL AREA? >> THE APPLICANT IS AWARE.

>> OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT OUT OF THE WAY.

>> GOOD JOB. OKAY. YES, SIR?

>> QUESTION. IS THAT AREA -- THAT'S IN A FLOOD ZONE.

IS THAT GOING TO RUN INTO ANY PROBLEMS? >> THERE IS.

I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT. I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT. >> SOUTH 25TH, RIGHT?

SO IT'S NEAR THE SOUTH -- ST. LUCIE RIVER. >> I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S IN A

FLOOD ZONE. >> OKAY. >> ALL RIGHT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF? OKAY. SO WILL THE APPLICANT PLEASE

COME FORWARD AND SIGN IN? IS THE APPLICANT HERE? >> YES.

>> PLEASE COME FORWARD. >> GOOD EVENING, MADAM MAYOR. >> WOULD YOU SIGN IN FOR US, PLEASE? AND BEFORE YOU BEGIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF OR ANYTHING?

>> I DO NOT. >> ANYTHING -- ALL RIGHT. STAFF, YOU MAY BE EXCUSED.

IF YOU HAVE NO QUESTIONS, THEY WILLBE EXCUSED AND YOU MAY MAKE YOUR PRESENTATION.

>> JUST LIKE TO INTRODUCE MYSELF. MY NAME IS RICHARD LATTICO.

I'M PRESIDENT OF LATTICO DESIGN GROUP. I REPRESENT THE APPLICANT TONIGHT REGARDING THE MODIFICATION TO THE CONDITIONAL USE.

AND TO ANSWER THE QUESTION REGARDING THE FLOOD ZONE, THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN FLOOD ZONE X. IT HAS NO ESTABLISHED FLOOD ELEVATION FOR IT.

>> IS X A GOOD THING OR A BAD THING? OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. >> IT'S NOT IN A FEMA DESIGNATED FLOOD AREA.

REGARDLESS OF ITS PROXIMITY TO THE CANAL AND THE RIVER, LOT OF THE PROPERTYS THERE ARE LOCATED

AND DESIGNATED AS FLOOD ZONE X. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

[01:00:03]

>> SO I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT ANYBODY MIGHT HAVE.

>> DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? NO.

THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU, SIR. AT THIS TIME, IS THERE ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE? PLEASE COME FORWARD.

YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES AND YOU'LL HAVE A WARNING. PLEASE SIGN IN FOR US, PLEASE, SIR.

>> HOPE THIS ISN'T PART OF MY TIME. >> NO, IT IS NOT.

YOUR TIME DOESN'T START UNTIL YOU START SPEAKING. >> ALL RIGHT.

GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS ROBERT HUMPHREY. MY PROPERTY ISSED A -- ADJACENT TO THIS PROPERTY. FIRST MEETING THEY TALKED ABOUT 32 UNITS.

I WAS ALL FOR IT. I THOUGHT THIS IS FINE. IT'S BETTER THAN A LOT OF THINGS THEY COULD PUT BACK THERE. BUT GOING UP TO 42 UNITS. PARKING.

THERE'S NO PARKING THERE. THEY WERE TIGHT AT 32 UNITS WITH THE PARKING.

I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT KIND OFFENSE THEY'RE PUTTING UP SEPARATING PALM LAKES GARDEN SUBDIVISION FROM THEIR BUILDING. I DO HAVE A FENCE THAT GOES DOWN ALONG PART OF IT NOW.

ALSO, ARE THEY REQUIRED TO HAVE A GENERATOR. IF THEY ARE, WHERE'S IT GOING TO BE LOCATED, THE AIR CONDITIONERS? NONE OF THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP TO US AT ALL THAT LIVE THERE. ALONG WITH, LIKE I SAID, THE PARKING.

I THINK THE PARKING AND THE LIGHTS ARE GOING TO BE OUT FRONT.

ARE THEY GOING TO INTERFERE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT THAT THERE ARE. SOME OF THE OLDER PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE THEIR BACK YARDS ALL LIT UP. SO IF THOSE ANSWERS, THOSE

QUESTIONS COULD BE ANSWERED, WE'D APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU, SIR.

>> THANK YOU. >> ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE WISH TO COME FORWARD? ALL RIGHT. SO THE APPLICANT, IF YOU COULD COME BACK, SIR, PLEASE, AND MAYBE ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES, THOSE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED.

>> AGAIN, RICHARD LATTICO FOR THE APPLICANT. TO ANSWER THE GENTLE MAN'S QUESTION, FIRST REGARDING THE FENCE. THE PROPERTY PURSUANT TO CODE IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A SIX-FOOT TALL OPAQUE FENCE AROUND ITS WESTERLY AND SOUTHERLY BOUNDARIES, WHICH PROTECTS THE PROPERTY FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD PALM GARDENS. SO BOTH SIDES OF THIS PROPOSED PROPERTY HAS A DIRECT IMPACT ON PALM LAKE GARDENS HAS, BY CODE, A SIX-FOOT HIGH OPAQUE FENCE.

TO ANSWER THE GENTLEMAN'S SECOND QUESTION REGARDING THE PARKING, THE ADDITIONAL NUMBER OF ROOMS DID NOT GENERATE ANY ADDITIONAL NEED FOR PARKING. THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BE UTILIZING THIS FACILITY DO NOT DRIVE. WE HAVE THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES PURSUANT TO THE CITY CODE REQUIREMENT, AS WELL AS WHAT THEY REFER TO AS THE ITE FOR

PARKING. I'LL ANSWER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. >> HE MENTIONED THE GENERATOR.

I THINK THAT'S STATE LAW. >> I DO NOT PERSONALLY KNOW WHERE IT WOULD BE LOCATED.

IT PROBABLY WOULD BE LOCATED WITHIN THE MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE

BUILDING. >> I THINK THAT IT IS A STATE LAW BEYOND THE CITY'S

REQUIREMENT, IT'S A STATE LAW, SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE IT. >> I BELIEVE IT IS, MA'AM.

>> THEY PASSED THAT AFTER ONE OF THE MORE RECENT BREAKING. >> ALSO THE LIGHTING.

>> THE LIGHTING. >> LIGHTING. >> THERE'S LIGHTING IN THE PARKING LOT UP FRONT, BUT IT WAS SUBMITTED -- THERE WAS A LIGHTING PLAN SUBMITTED TO STAFF. I BELIEVE THE ENGINEERING TKEP REVIEWED IT.

IT'S WITHIN CODE. >> YES, SIR? >> DID THE ADDITIONAL TEN UNITS THAT ARE PROPOSED ON THE NORTH SIDE FROM WHAT I'M SEEING HERE. IS THAT ACCURATE?

>> THAT'S CORRECT. >> SO THE PREVIOUS PLAN HAD THE LIGHTING CONCEPT IN PLACE.

>> IT WAS ALL IN PLACE. THERE MAY BE SOME ADDITIONAL BUILDING LIGHTING, BUT THERE ARE PACKAGES. THE ONLY SITE LIGHTING THAT YOU MIGHT SEE FROM THE STREET WOULD

[01:05:02]

BE WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR THE PARKING LOT. >> EVEN THE BUILDING LIGHT WOULD

BE ON THE NORTH ELEVATION WHICH IS ALONG THE CANAL. >> CORRECT.

RIGHT, SIR. IT WOULD BE THE SIDE WHERE THE HIGH SCHOOL IS ON.

>> ALL RIGHT. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY.

>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'LL NOW CLOSE THE PUBLIC

HEARING AND EITHER DISCUSS OR I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. >> I MOVE FOR THE APPROVAL.

WITH RECOMMENDATIONS. CONDITIONS. >> I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY CONDITIONS, WERE THERE? OKAY. OKAY.

>> CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE. >> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER? >> YES.

>> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER PERONA?

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS? >> YES, MA'AM.

>> MAYOR HUDSON? >> YES, MA'AM. >> NEXT WE HAVE A LEGISLATIVE

[b. Legislative Hearing - Ordinance 19-037 An Ordinance by the City Commission of the City Of Fort Pierce, Florida; modifying the Harbour Isle Planned Development to revise the previously approved Site Plan for a convenience store with fuel sales on property generally located at 835 Seaway Drive; providing for a severability clause; repealing all Ordinances or parts thereof in conflict herewith; and providing for an effective date. SECOND READING]

HEARING ON ORDINANCE 19-037 AN ORDINANCE BY THE CITY COMMISSION TO THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE TO REVISE THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED SITE PLAN FOR A CONVENIENCE STORE WITH FUEL SALES ON PROPERTY GENERALLY LOCATED AT 835 SEAWAY DRIVE PROVIDING FOR SEVERALABILITY CLAUSE REGARDING ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT HERE WITH. THIS IS THE SECOND READING.

I BELIEVE THIS EVENING WE HAVE A PRESENTATION BY A CONSULTANT THAT'S GOING TO OCCUR BEFORE THE

PUBLIC HEARING, I BELIEVE. >> OKAY. >> YES, SIR.

>> AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE ARE HERE AT THE CONTINUANCE OF THE SECOND READING OF THIS LEGISLATIVE HEARING. SO PREVIOUS TO US MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS LEGISLATIVE HEARING, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ONE OF OUR CONSULTING ENGINEERS, MR. BRIAN GOODE, PROVIDE AN INFORMATIONAL PRESENTATION TO YOU WHEREBY, YOU WILL LEARN ABOUT SOME OF HIS INVESTIGATIVE ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE TRAFFIC CONFIGURATION AND FLOW FOR THE GENERAL AREA.

AS YOU KNOW, WE HAD SOME SERIOUS CONCERNS AS A CITY COMMISSION ABOUT HOW TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE DEVELOPMENT. I BELIEVE NOW WE DO HAVE OUR CONSULTANT.

I WOULD LIKE TO ASK BRIAN TO COME ON UP AND GIVE US SOME INFORMATION THAT YOU ALL CAN HAVE AT YOUR DISPOSAL AND YOU CAN ALSO ASK MR. GOODE, AS WELL AS OUR RESIDENT CITY ENGINEER, MR. ANDREWS, ABOUT ANY TRAFFIC CONFIGURATION OR TRAFFIC FLOW QUESTIONS TO HELP YOU MAKE YOUR

DETERMINATION MOVING FORWARD. >> THANK YOU, SIR. >> YOU'RE GONNA BE THERE A

WHILE, BRIAN. SIT DOWN. >> MR. ANDREWS, IS THERE A

PRESENTATION THAT HE IS GOING TO BE USEING? >> YES, THERE IS.

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS. AS INTRODUCED BRIAN GOODE. MY FIRM HAS BEEN RETAINED BY THE CITY TO PROVIDE AN INDEPENDENT TRAFFIC EVALUATION REGARDING THE APPLICATION ASSOCIATED WITH THE SITE PLAN. THE IMAGE BEFORE YOU PROVIDES AERIAL DEPICTION OF THE PROJECT LOCATION. IT'S ESSENTIALLY ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE OF SEAWAY DRIVE.

YOU'VE GOT THE COAST GUARD STATION TO THE NORTH, CHUCK'S RESTAURANT TO THE SOUTH AND HARBOUR ISLE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF IT.

THIS IS A PROPOSED SITE PLAN IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE APPLICATION.

I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT TWO SITE PLAN. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT ONE HAS PREVIOUSLY BEEN APPROVED AND THIS IS A SECOND ADJACENT PARCEL.

SO, IN THE ORIGINAL APPROVED DEVELOPMENTS THE HARBOUR ISLE SHOPS, IT CONSISTED OF A SITDOWN RESTAURANT, APPAREL STORE AND LIQUOR STORE. THE CUMBERLAND FARMS LAND USE PROVIDED, PROPOSES A CONVENIENCE STORE WITH GAS PUMPS WITH A CONVENIENCE STORE OF APPROXIMATELY 5,625 SQUARE FEET WITH 12 FUELING STATIONS. THE DRIVE WAYS ASSOCIATED WITH THE TWO TKOPMENTES TO SEAWAY DRIVE HAVE, AS I UNDERSTAND, HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE CITY AND DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. I WAS PROVIDED A PREAPPLICATION APPROVAL LETTER BY THE DEPARTMENT IDENTIFYING THE DRIVE WAY CONFIGURATION.

[01:10:01]

SO I'M JUST GOING TO QUICKLY GO THROUGH THE DRIVE WAY CONFIGURATION ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PARCELS. THERE ARE THREE DRIVE WAYS TO THE WESTERN PORTION OF THE HARBOUR ISLE SHOPS CONSIST OF A RIGHT IN ONLY DRIVE WAY. MID PROPERTY CONSISTS OF A FULL ACCESS DRIVE WAY SECTION TO SEAWAY DRIVE. AND DRIVEWAY THREE AT THE EASTERN LIMIT OF THE PROPERTY PROVIDES FOR AN EGRESS, RIGHT OUT EGRESS ONLY.

THIS IS THE FUN PART. I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC NUMBERS, SO I'LL TRY TO BE BRIEF AND QUICK. IF SOMETIMES I SAY SOMETHING THAT IS UNCLEAR OR IF I MISSTATE, PLEASE STOP ME AND I'LL BE MORE THAN GLAD TO PROVIDE CLARIFICATION.

WHAT YOU SEE IS A TRIP GENERATIONAL QUE LAYINGS ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PARCELS BY THE APPLICANT. THIS PROJECTS VEHICULAR VOLUMES ASSOCIATED WITH THE ANTICIPATED LAND USES THAT ARE BEFORE YOU FOR CONSIDERATION. A COUPLE THINGS I JUST WANTED TO TALK ABOUT BECAUSE MY NUMBERS ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. YOU'LL SEE IN THESE HIGHLIGHTED, THESE ARE SLIGHTLY NEW MATH DEVIATIONS. IF YOU DO THE MATH, THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S REPRESENTED IN THE TABLE. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE APPLICANT HAD PROPOSED, HAD IDENTIFIED 277 P.M. PEAK HOUR TRIPS.

THAT'S 277 VEHICLES IN THE P.M. PEAK HOUR THAT WOULD BE COMING AND GOING FROM THE DEVELOPMENT.

IF YOU ACTUALLY JUST LOOK AT THE MAP AND CORRECT FOR THE MATH ERRORS, IT'S A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT NUMBER. IT'S 301. THERE'S 24 ADDITIONAL TRIPSES IN THE TRIP GENERATION TABLE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT. KIMLEY HORN TKUN'T HAVE GRAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE TRIP GEN. THERE IS ONE AREA WE HAVE A GRAVE CONSIDERATION.

IT'S ASSOCIATED WITH HOW THE CONVENIENCE MARKET AND GAS PUMP IS CATEGORIZED.

THE APPLICANT USED ITE LAND CODES WHICH PROVIDES TRAFFIC CHARACTERISTICS FOR VARIOUS LAND USE, IF YOU'RE SINGLE FAMILY, COMMERCIL, IF YOU HAVE A PARK. THEY DO INDEPENDENT STUDIES AND PROVIDE CHARACTERISTICS OF HOW TRAFFIC SHOULD BEHAVE WITH DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT INTENTIES.

THE APPLICANT USED ITE CODES WITH EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR THE CONVENIENCE MARKET AND GAS PUMPS. THERE WAS A BASIS FOR IT. THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2014 FOR THAT LAND USE. THE REASON, AS YOU PROBABLY HAVE SEEN CONVENIENCE MARKET WITH GAS STATIONS HAVE BEEN EVOLVING OVER TIME AND TODAY WITH THE CUMBERLAND FARMS, THE WAWAS OF THE WORLD, THEY ARE QUITE A BIT DIFFERENT THAN THEY WERE IN THE '80S OR EARLY '90S.

ITE RECOGNIZED THIS, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION RECOGNIZED THIS.

THEY DID A STUDY IN 2014 TO BETTER CHARACTERIZE TRAFFIC CHARACTERISTICS WITH THIS PARTICULAR LAND USE. I JUST WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT A COUPLE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE 2014 STUDY LAND USE CHARACTERISTICS DEFINED BY DOT VERSUS 2017 WHICH IS THE MOST CURRENT INDUSTRY STANDARD FOR A SUPER CONVENIENCE MARKET WITH GAS STATION.

SO, THE P.M. PEAK HOUR, DOT'S TRIP GENERATION PROJECTS 235 VEHICLES.

ITE PROJECTS 276 TRIPS WHICH IS 11%. I'S NOT APPRECIABLE.

IT'S A LITTLE GREATER BUT SLIGHTLY GREATER THAN WHAT DOT HAD PROJECTED BACK IN 2014.

THE LARGE DIFFERENTIAL COMES IN THE A.M. PEAK HOURS. THE DOT STUDY DID NOT PROVIDE ANY GUIDANCE FOR A.M. TRIP CHARACTERISTICS. SO IN THE STUDY SUBMITTED TO THE CITY, THE APPLICANTS MERELY TOOK P.M. PEAK HOURS AND SAID IT'S REPRESENTATIVE OF THE A.M. PEAK HOUR. WHICH IS NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE.

ITE SAID THE A.M. PEAK HOUR IS THE LARGEST HOUR GENERATED FOR THE PARTICULAR LAND USE.

ITE PROJECTS 376 TRIPS VERSUS DOT USING THE P.M. PEAK HOUR ROJECT OVER 269.

IT'S A 40% INCREASE FROM WHAT WAS REPRESENTED IN THE TRAFFIC STUDY.

SO WE WOULD CATEGORIZE THAT AS AN APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE IN HOW WE BELIEVE THE PROPERTY WILL OPERATE. IT'S 107 TRIP DIFFERENCE. SO 107 VEHICLES, IF YOU WILL.

PROJECTED MOVEMENTS. SO THIS IS THE TURNING MOVEMENT PROJECTIONS BY THE APPLICANT IN

THE STUDY. >> MR. SESSIONS HAS A QUESTION. >> YOU SPOKE IN ENGINEERING

TERMINOLOGY. >> I KNOW. I'M TRYING TO MAKE IT AS SIMPLE

[01:15:01]

AS I CAN. >> CAN YOU GO BACK. MAKE IT A LITTLE SIMPLER FOR US HERE. IN SUMMARY -- CAN YOU JUSTIFY WHAT'S THE RATIONALE BETWEEN DISTINGUISHING THE TWO FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE. DO YOU RECOMMEND OR DON'T,

SIMPLE AS THAT? >> I DO NOT. IF MY FIRM WAS PROVIDING THE STUDY WE WOULD BASE IT UPON THE 2017 TRIP GUIDANCE BY ITE. THAT'S THE MOST CURRENT INFORMATION RELATIVE TO THIS LAND USE. DOT DIDN'T PROVIDE ANY GUIDANCE FOR A.M. PEAK HOUR WHICH IS, BY THE NUMBERS THAT I'M SHOWING, IS THE LARGEST TIME OF DAY THAT THIS SITE, A CONVENE AGAIN STORE WITH GAS STATION. YOU'LL SEE SUPERCONVENIENCE BECAUSE THAT'S HOW ITE DEFINES IT. THEY DEFINE SUPERCONVENIENT STORE, ANY CONVENIENCE STORE IN EXCESS OF 3,000 SQUARE FEET OF BUILDING AREA AND 12 OR GREATER FUELING POSITIONS. SO IF YOU HAVE THOSE TWO THINGS IN COMBINATION WITH YOUR SITE, ITE DEFINES YOU AS A SUPERCONVENIENCE STORE WITH GAS STATION.

WE THINK THAT'S MORE APPROPRIATE TO DESCRIBE HOW THIS LAND USE WOULD OPERATE.

>> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, SIR. >> SO, AS I WAS SAYING, THIS IS THE TRIP NUMBERS. YOU'LL SEE THE PERCENTAGE LOOKING AT THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PAGE. 35% TALKS ABOUT TRIP DISTRIBUTION OR THE DIRECTION THE TRIPS COMING FROM. 50 IN BRACKET REPRESENTS THE P.M. PEAK HOUR TRIPS THAT WOULD BE USING THAT DRIVE WAY. AND THE 49 WOULD REPRESENT THE A.M. PEAK HOUR TRIPS THAT WE'RE USING. IF YOU LOOK AT THE RIGHT IN ONLY ON THE WEST SIDE, BASICALLY I HAVE 50 CARS REPRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT THAT WOULD USE IT IN EITHER THE A.M. OR P.M. PEAK HOUR. IF YOU LOOK AT THE FULL ACCESS CONNECTION TO SEAWAY DRIVE, I HAVE 50 CARS FROM THE WEST AND 40 FROM THE EAST. LIKEWISE I HAVE ABOUT 20 CARS EXITING. IF YOU ACTUALLY REVISED THESE NUMBERS BASED UPON KIMLEY HORN'S RECOMMENDATION FROM A CONVENIENCE STORE, IT CHANGES. WE INCREASE FROM 50 CARS USING THE WEST RIGHT IN ONLY TO SOMEWHERE IN THE 60S AND THEN WE'RE AGAIN IN THE 50 TO ALMOST 70S USING THE FULL ACCESS CONNECTION. SO YOU SEE A FAIRLY APPRECIABLE CHANGE IN DRIVE WAY VOLUMES ASSOCIATED WITH THE SITE BASED UPON THE SOLE CHANGE OF HOW WE ARE CLASSIFYING THE CUMBERLAND FARMS SITE PLAN. SEAWAY DRIVE, ONCE WE LOOKED AT THE SITE TO SAY HOW WE BELIEVE THE SITE WOULD BE, WE'RE LOOKING AT SEAWAY DRIVE.

ST. LUCIE COUNTY PROVIDES GUIDANCE IN THEIR ROADWAY SEGMENTS REPORT RELATIVE TO THEIR RATED CAPACITIES OR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS THE MAXIMUM LEVEL OF SERVICE FOR PARTICULAR CORRIDORS AS WELL AS THEY SAY HOW MANY CARS ARE CURRENTLY USING IT.

IF I SAY 100 CARS CAN USE THIS AN ONLY 50 ARE USING IT, THERE'S CAPACITY.

THERE'S ADDITIONAL CARS THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE THIS ROADWAY SEGMENT.

VICE VERSA. IF I SAY 100 CARS CAN USE A ROADWAY SEGMENT AND I HAVE 200, THEN I HAVE MORE PEOPLE USING IT THAN WHAT WE'VE DESIGNATED THE LEVEL OF SERVICE.

LEVEL OF SERVICE, IN TERMS OF HOW YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT IT IS DELAY, CONGESTION OF VEHICLES ON A ROADWAY SEGMENT. LESS VEHICLES, THE BETTER LEVEL OF SERVICE.

MORE VEHICLES, THE MORE CONGESTION, LONGER TRAVEL TIME, THE DEGRADED LEVEL OF SERVICE.

SO ST. LUCIE COUNTY DEFINES OCEAN TO BINNY AND BINNY TO CAUSEWAY PARK AS HAVING CAPACITIES OF ROUGHLY 600 TO 790 IN THE PEAK HOUR DIRECTIONAL VOLUMES.

WHEN YOU GO TO THE ROADWAY SEGMENT REPORTS PROVIDED BY THE COUNTY, THEY REPORT VOLUMES FROM 2017, THEY REFERENCE A DOT PUMP STATION AS A SOURCE FOR THEIR INFORMATION WHICH IS APPROPRIATE BECAUSE THEY COUNT TRAFFIC 24/7 EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEIR COUNT DATA IS FROM 2017. IF YOU GO TO THAT SAME COUNT STATION REFERENCE, THAT DOT HAS AND YOU PULL THE DATA, IT ACTUALLY SHOWS MUCH HIGHER VOLUMES IN 2019 THAN IS BEING REPORTED IN 2017. AND ESSENTIALLY, BASED UPON THE NUMBERS PROVIDED BY DOT AND THE CAPACITIES DEFINED BY ST. LUCIE COUNTY, SEAWAY DRIVE IS CURRENTLY OPERATING BETWEEN 8 AND 42% OVER IT RATED CAPACITY TODAY BASED UPON THOSE VOLUMES. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO HOW DO YOU MITIGATE FOR A ROAD WAY THAT'S OVER CAPACITY? WE LOOKED AT HOW TO IMPROVE OR

[01:20:07]

MINIMIZE IMPACTS TO SEAWAY DRIVE WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT. ONE WAY TO MINIMIZE IMPACTS WOULD BE TO PROVIDE FOR AUXILIARY TURN LANES AT PRINCIPLE TURNING MOVEMENT POINTS. WITHIN THE REPORT WE PROVIDED TO THE CITY, WE HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT THE CITY CONSIDER A LEFT TURN AUXILIARY LANE THAT WOULD SERVICE THE CUMBERLAND FARMS AND HARBOUR ISLE JOINT SITE PLAN. THE CITY TKU NOT HAVE NUMERICAL WARRANTS FOR WHEN A TURN LANE SHOULD BE PROVIDED. THE COUNTY TKU NOT HAVE NUMERICAL WARRANTS.

A NUMERICAL WARRANTS IS WHEN A PROJECT HAS MORE THAN 50 VEHICLES THAT MAKE A LEFT, THE APPLICANT SHALL PROVIDE A RIGHT TURN LANE, A LEFT TURN LANE. IN ABSENCE OF THAT GUIDANCE, WHAT WE DEFAULT TO IS GUIDANCE PROVIDED BY ASTRO. ASTRO PROVIDES GUIDANCE, AS FAR AS WHEN THEY RECOMMEND LEFT TURN LANES AT CERTAIN INTERSECTIONS BASED UPON TURNING VOLUMES AND OPPOSING VOLUMES AND THEY PROVIDE GUIDE ANNE. WHAT YOU SEE BEFORE YOU IS A FANCY MATH EQUATION THAT YOU PLUG IN THE NUMBERS, ADVANCING VOLUME AND OPPOSING VOLUME.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WHEN WE PLUG IN THE VOLUMES TODAY THAT ARE ON SEAWAY DRIVE AND WE PLUG IN THE VOLUMES THAT KIMLEY HORN IS SAYING IS MORE LIKELY TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS SITE IT COMES OUT WITH THE RECOMMENDATION THAT A LEFT TURN LANE SHOULD BE PROVIDED.

>> CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT THAT? >> YES, MA'AM.

>> SO, IF A LEFT TURN IS PROVIDED, WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU'RE GOING OUT OF THE SHOPPING AREA AND YOU'RE TURNING LEFT? HOW DOES THAT WORK WITH THAT LEFT TURN?

>> SO, YOU WOULD EITHER MAKE INCREMENTAL MOVEMENTS WHERE YOU WOULD GO ACROSS THE EAST BOUND TRAFFIC AND STOP IN THE MEDIAN IF YOU COULD NOT GET GAPS GOING IN BOTH DIRECTIONS OR YOU WOULD GO ACROSS LIKE A THREE LANE SECTION. IT WOULD BE A THREE LANE SECTION. CITY ASKED FOR US TO PROVIDE A LAYOUT OF WHAT THIS TURN LANE WOULD LOOK LIKE AND THE IMAGE BEFORE YOU PROVIDES THAT GEOMETRY ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

ONE THING THAT PROVIDES SOME COMPLICATION WITH THIS FOR A BI DIRECTIONAL LEFT TURN LANE AS IT'S REFERRED TO IS THE COAST GUARD STATION OPPOSITE SIDE OF SEAWAY DRIVE.

THE DRIVE WAYS DO NOT ALIGN WITH ONE ANOTHER. SO WHILE IT WOULD BE MORE OPTIMAL TO HAVE THOSE ALIGN IN THIS PARTICULAR DRIVE WAY LAYOUT FOR THE COAST GUARD, AS WELL AS THE APPLICANT'S DEVELOPMENT, A BI DIRECTIONAL LEFT TURN LANE WOULD BE WELL SUITED TO ACOME PLATE FOR THOSE MOVEMENTS. WE DID GO OUT AND PROVIDE TURNING MOVEMENT COUNTS DURING A WEEK TO TRY TO GET A VOLUME ASSOCIATED WITH THE COAST GUARD STATION.

IT WAS A SINGULAR DAY, SO I DON'T WANT TO REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COAST GUARD STATION THROUGHOUT A YEAR. BUT THE COUNT DATA WE HAD WAS FAIRLY LOW.

IT WAS IN THE LOWER THAN 5 TO 6 TURNING VEHICLES IN THE A.M. AND P.M. PEAK HOUR ON A GIVEN WEEKDAY. I JUST REITERATE THAT WAS A SINGULAR DATA COLLECTION DAY.

THE OTHER RECOMMENDATION WITHIN OUR REPORT, THIS IS JUST EXPANDING OUT THE IMAGE A LITTLE BIT, DOWN TO HARBOUR ISLE EAST, IT'S OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT AT ONE POINT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A DRIVE WAY CONNECTION FROM THE COMMERCIAL MODE THAT'S IN BETWEEN HARBOUR ISLE EAST AND SEAWAY DRIVE. WE WOULD SAY THAT ALLOWS FOR RESIDENTS OF HARBOUR ISLES THAT WOULD LIKE TO USE THESE COMMERCIAL USES, IT GIVES THEM A MECHANISM TO ACCESS THE PROPERTIES WITHOUT HAVING TO GET ON TO SEAWAY DRIVE, WHICH IS -- THE BENEFIT IS --

>> LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, YOU'LL HAVE A CHANCE. >> THE BENEFIT WOULD BE IT REMOVES TRAFFIC LOADING FROM SEAWAY DRIVE. WE BELIEVE THERE'S A BENEFIT TO THE CITY TO HAVING THAT INTERNAL CONNECTION BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES TO THE SOUTH AND THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES THAT WE'RE SPEAKING TO THIS EVENING.

THAT CULMINATES MY CONVERSATION FOR THE TIME BEING. >> QUESTIONS?

>> YES, SIR. >> I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT COMING OFF OF THE BRIDGE.

I SAW IT SOMEWHERE. HERE. I DON'T KNOW WHO SENT THIS TO

[01:25:02]

ME. SHOULD I SHOW IT? >> YEAH.

IT WAS PASSED OUT TO US EARLIER, RIGHT? >> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THIS

OR NOT. >> YES, SIR, I HAVE SEEN THAT IMAGE.

>> YOU'VE SEEN THAT? THAT'S ABOUT WHERE FOUR LANES BEGIN AND END, RIGHT?

WHERE THE CONGESTION IS. >> YOU'RE COMING OFF THE BRIDGE AND TRANSITIONS, YES, SIR.

>> IT'S NOT REALLY THAT FAR. IS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION ABOUT FOUR LANING THAT AREA THERE?

>> IS THERE CONSIDERATION? I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE CONSIDERATION.

I'M NOT AWARE. I KNOW PROBABLY ABOUT SIX OR EIGHT YEARS AGO, THE CITY IMPLEMENTED IMPROVEMENTS TO A1A, SEAWAY DRIVE. THAT'S THE LAST IMPROVEMENT THAT

I'M AWARE OF. >> I'M SORRY. MAYBE I ASKED THE WRONG

QUESTION. WE HAVE A MEDIAN THERE? >> NO, SIR.

THAT'S REALLY JUST TRAFFIC STRIPING. THAT'S JUST THREE LANES OF ASPHALT. SO IT'S REFERRED TO AS A THREE LANE.

>> TURNING LANE? >> YES, SIR. IT'S NOT A RAISED MEDIAN.

AT LEAST IN THIS IMAGE IT WAS NOT DEPICTED AS SUCH. >> OKAY.

SO WOULD THAT BE AGAINST WHAT YOU WOULD BE THINKING, CONSIDERING HAVING A LITTLE

RAISED MEDIAN THERE? >> I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND A RAISED MEDIAN, JUST FROM THE MERE FACT, YOU DON'T LIKE TO INTRODUCE THINGS THAT ARE INCONSISTENT TO THE CORRIDOR.

DO I HAVE SOME RAISED MEDIANS AT THE ROUND ABOUT AT HARBOUR ISLES DRIVE, BUT IT'S FAIRLY LIMITED.

THE ROUND ABOUT IS AN ACCESS TRAFFIC CALMING ELEMENT. >> I'M THINKING, YOU KNOW, IN TRAVELING, I HAVE COME THROUGH SOME HIGHWAYS WHERE THAT TRAFFIC NEEDS TO BE SLOWED ANYWAY.

I MEAN, IT NEEDS TO BE -- I KNOW EVERYBODY IS IN A HURRY, BUT I HAVE SEEN THESE PILING TYPE ORANGE THINGS LIKE A MEDIAN THAT GIVES YOU A TURNING LANE IN BETWEEN THEM.

I'M JUST -- YOU'RE THE DESIGNER AND WE GOT ENGINEERS AND ALL THAT.

>> I WOULD JUST OFFER TO YOU, DURING THE PEAK HOUR OF OPERATION, AND THAT'S HOW THE EVALUATIONS ARE PERFORMED, DURING THE BUSIEST MORNING AND EVENING TIME OF DAY.

I WOULD OFFER TO YOU THAT THE SPEED IS NOT IN EXCESS OF A CONCERN JUST BECAUSE OF THE CONGESTION ON SEAWAY DRIVE THAT FROM THAT IMAGE THAT YOU HELD UP A MOMENT AGO.

I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THOSE CARS MOVING AT A RAPID RATE OF SPEED JUST BECAUSE OF

PROXIMITY TO ONE ANOTHER. >> WHAT WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE? >> IT'S FAIRLY CONGESTED.

>> I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU WERE MONITORING LEFT-HAND TURNS. >> YES, SIR, WE DID COUNT TURNING MOVEMENT VEHICLES AT SEAWAY DRIVE AND THE COAST GUARD STATION.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I'M SORRY.

>> NO, NO PROBLEM. COMMISSIONER PERONA? >> SO, I'M TRYING TO GET THE CAPACITY DOWN PAT. SO CURRENTLY, CURRENTLY, WE'RE OVERCAPACITY ON SEAWAY?

>> BASED UPON THE NUMBERS THAT I'M REPORTING, I WOULD REPORT TO YOU, YES.

>> YOU SAID THOUGH 108 TO 140%, RIGHT? >> YES, SIR, I DID.

>> HAVE WE LOOKED AT WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD RISE TO IF WE APPROVE THIS SITE WITHOUT THE

THIRD LANE? >> I CAN'T SAY THAT IN THE REPORT I MADE THAT PROJECTION.

I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S NOT -- IT WOULDN'T BE HUGELY APPRECIABLE. BECAUSE THE LARGEST GENERATOR OF TRAFFIC MOST ASSOCIATED WITH ALL THE DEVELOPMENT IS THE SUPERCONVENIENT AND CUMBERLAND FARMS. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT -- JUST, IF YOU LOOK IN THIS TABLE, THIS IS THE TRIP GENERATION RATE PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT. JUST LOOK STRICTLY AT THE NUMBERS THEY'VE REPORTED. THEY'RE SAYING IN THE P.M. PEAK HOUR, THE DEVELOPMENT WAS PROJECTED TO GENERATE 291 VEHICULAR TRIPS. OF THAT 291, THEY'RE ALLOCATING 235. NOW, WE MAY TAKE UMBRIDGE WITH HOW MUCH THAT IS, BUT YOU CAN SEE JUST BY THESE NUMBERS, THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY ASSOCIATED WITH THE SUPER CONVENIENCE, THE CONVENIENCE STORE WITH GAS STATION. THAT'S THE DRIVING FACTOR.

[01:30:02]

>> SO ON THE SAME GRAPH RIGHT HERE, I'M LOOKING AT DAILY TRIPS FOR THE CONVENIENCE MARKET WITH GAS PUMPS AND IT SAID 3361. WOULD IT BE FAIR TO DIVIDE THAT IN HALF AND FIGURE OUT THAT'S

ONE VEHICLE GOING OUT THAT HAS TO COME BACK OUT? >> NO.

USUALLY THE RULE OF THUMB FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE IS WHATEVER THE DAILY VOLUME IS, THE P.M.

PEAK HOUR GENERATES ROUGHLY 10% OF THE DAILY VOLUME OCCURS IN THE P.M. PEAK HOUR.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD DIRECTLY FALL IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING.

>> JUST TRYING TO GET AN IDEA OF THE ACTIVITY. THIS TALKS ABOUT DAILY TRIPS.

>> IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT ACTIVITY, I WOULD ASK FOR YOU TO BE MORE FOCUSED ON THIS EXHIBIT.

SO THIS IS THE APPLICANT'S AS WELL AS KIMLEY HORN'S PROJECTION OF WHAT WE BELIEVE VEHICULAR

TURNING MOVEMENT ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT. >> WHEN YOU DO THESE KIND OF STUDY, DO YOU TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE NATURE OF THE VEHICLE? FOR INSTANCE, IF A CAR OR TRUCK

ARE PULLING A BOAT OR PULLING -- >> NO, MA'AM. THE ONLY TIME WE TYPICALLY DO THAT IS, SAY, LIKE A SPEED WAY WHERE THEY HAVE A LARGE VEHICULAR FUELING STATION IN THE FRONT. THEY HAVE A SUPERCONVENIENCE, THEN DIESEL FUELING STATIONS IN THE BACK. WE DO TAKE MEASURES FOR THAT WHEN WE HAVE LARGE TRACTOR TRAILER ANTICIPATED VOLUMES. FROM JUST LOOKING AT TRAFFIC CHARACTERISTICS, WE DON'T DISCERN, YOU KNOW, LAWN CARE OR A RECREATIONAL BOATER FROM ANY OTHER VEHICULAR TRIP.

>> IS THERE SOME CONCERN ABOUT THE TURN-IN OF -- >> THAT USUALLY GETS -- THOSE CONCERNS USUALLY GET ADDRESSED AND RESOLVED DURING THE SITE PLAN.

USUALLY STAFF WILL RAISE CONCERNS ABOUT THE APPLICANT HAS TO SUBMIT HOW FUELING TRUCKS WILL ACCESS THE PROPERTY AND MAKE SURE THERE'S ADEQUATE DRIVEWAY WIDTH AND MANEUVERABILITY WITHIN THE SITE. USUALLY THEN THE APPLICANT WILL SUBMIT TURNING MOVEMENTS ASSOCIATED WITH FUELING TRUCKS, TRACTORS AND TRAILERS, IF YOU'RE A RETAILER, TO SHOW HOW SITE

ACCESS IS GAINED. >> 'CAUSE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND, SINCE THIS IS AN ISLAND AND IT IS A BOATING COMMUNITY, AND THERE'S GOING TO BE AN ATTRACTION FOR PEOPLE PULLING A

BOAT. >> SO WHILE THE TRAFFIC STUDY, NEITHER THE APPLICANT'S TRAFFIC STUDY NOR KIMLEY HORN'S REVIEW OF THE APPLICANT'S TRAFFIC STUDY ADDRESSED THAT, THAT COULD BE ADDRESSED, AGAIN, THROUGH REVIEW OF THE SITE PLAN AND THE APPLICANT COULD SUBMIT TEMPLATES OF VARIOUS VEHICLE TURNING MOVEMENTS GAINING ACCESS. BUT, NO, MA'AM, WE DID NOT LOOK

AT THAT. >> YES, SIR? >> MR. GOODE, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. IN YOUR DIAGRAM HERE, IN THE CENTER SECTION, WOULD YOU DESCRIBE FOR US AND THE PUBLIC THE PERCENTAGES THAT HAVE BEEN DICTATED THERE FOR EXITING THE PROPERTY? CAN YOU SHOW US HOW MANY TRIPS TOTAL AND THE PERCENTAGES? SOME OF THE CONFLICT AND SOME OF THE DISCUSSION COMES IN TO LEFT TURNING MOVEMENT, SO THAT'S WHY

I WANT TO POINT IT OUT. >> COMING IN OR LEAVEING? >> EXITING.

>> THE APPLICANT REPRESENTED TO THE CITY THAT THEY BELIEVE 70% OF THE ACCESS TO THE VEHICULAR ACCESS WILL COME FROM THE WEST. AND 30% WILL COME FROM THE EAST. OF WHERE THE PROJECT CURRENTLY IS. I RAN AN INDEPENDENT MODEL AND THE MODEL THAT WE RAN DID NOT DEPICT A SUBSTANTIVE DIFFERENCE FROM WHAT WAS REPRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT.

AS FAR AS TRAFFIC CHARACTERISTICS. AS FAR AS WHERE TRAFFIC WILL COME FROM. REALLY, IT LOOKS AT POPULATION BASE, ESPECIALLY FOR CONVENIENCE STORE. IT LOOKS AT A LARGER POPULATION, JUST BEING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BRIDGE RELATIVE TO WHERE THE SITE IS. IT LOOKS AT THE POPULATION BASE.

WHILE YOU COULD MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR 60/40 OR 55/45, IT DOES BECOME DEBATABLE.

BUT WE DIDN'T TAKE UMBRIDGE WITH THE 70/30. >> THAT'S COMING INTO THE

PARCEL. >> THAT WOULD BE COMING IN. 70% WOULD BE LEAVING.

IF 70% IS COMING FROM THE WEST FROM WHERE THE PROJECT IS OVER THE BRIDGE, THEN IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THAT 70% WOULD EXIT ONTO SEAWAY DRIVE GOING WEST. I THOUGHT THAT'S THE MOVEMENT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. THE APPLICANT REPRESENTED TO THE CITY THAT 70% OF THE VEHICULAR

[01:35:04]

TRAFFIC WOULD MAKE THAT MOVEMENT. >> OKAY.

SO THAT MAKES SENSE ON, I GUESS, A MATHEMATICAL EVALUATION. COMMONSENSE TO ME SAYS, I'M NOT SURE FOLKS FROM THE MAINLAND ARE GOING TO COME TO THE ISLAND TO COME GET FUEL.

AND THAT'S OKAY. BUT I WANTED TO POINT OUT MORE SPECIFICALLY THE LEFT-HAND TURN MOVEMENT. THAT'S SOME OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES OF THIS ENTIRE SITE

IS THAT MOVEMENT. >> TO EXIT THE SITE. >> THAT'S RIGHT.

WITH THIS USE. IF IT'S A MORE INTENSIVE USE THAN A RESTAURANT, FOR INSTANCE, WHICH BASED ON ITE AND SOME OF THE NUMBERS I'M LOOKING AT, IT IS MORE INTENSIVE BECAUSE

THERE'S MORE TRIPS COMING AND GOING AT A MORE FREQUENT RATE. >> ONE THING WITH GAS STATIONS THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO 'CAUSE IT'S TOO NERVING FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE IS PASS BY.

SO, WITH GAS STATIONS, THERE'S A LARGE -- THERE CAN BE A LARGE PERCENTAGE -- WHEN I SAY LARGE PERCENTAGE, IT'S DEBATABLE. SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 58 AND 76% OF THE TRAFFIC IS PASS BY.

SO PEOPLE AREN'T GOING THERE AS A DESTINATION. THEY'RE NOT GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO SPECIFICALLY GO TO THAT CONVENIENCE STORE OR GAS STATION.

BUT THEY'RE COMING AND GOING FROM HOME OR WORK OR CHURCH OR WHEREVER THEY'RE GOING AND IT'S CONVENIENT. IT'S ON THE ROUTE THEY WOULD BE GOING ANYWAY.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT GAS STATIONS, THERE CAN BE A LARGE PERCENT OF THE TRAFFIC THAT ISN'T CONSIDERED NEW TRIPS BECAUSE THAT VEHICULAR TRAFFIC IS ALREADY ON THE ROADWAY REGARDLESS. IT IS USING IT BUT AN IT IS A CONVENIENT LOCATION.

>> SO -- >> WHEN I REPRESENT THESE NUMBERS, IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE OR INCORRECT FOR ME TO REPRESENT OR YOU TO THINK OF THESE ALL NEW TRIPS THAT WEREN'T USING SEAWAY DRIVE. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIVE AMOUNT OF THE TRAFFIC THAT'S CONSIDERED

PASS-BY TRAFFIC AND NOT GENERATED BY THE APPLICANT. >> I APPRECIATE THAT, TOO.

IT'S A TEMPORARY STOP, IN ESSENCE. WHETHER YOU PULL OFF THE SIDE OF

THE ROAD OR PULL OFF TO THE SHOULDER OF THE ROAD. >> WHEN YOU LOOK AT RESTAURANTS, SOME OF YOUR MORE SITDOWN RESTAURANTS, YOUR HIGH QUALITY RESTAURANTS, ANYTHING BESIDES LIKE FAST FOOD, YOU CAN SEE VERY SIMILAR WHERE RESTAURANTS BECOME MORE OF A DESTINATION.

PEOPLE GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO GO TO A DESTINATION VERSUS SAY A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT.

IT ALSO HAS A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF PASS-BY TRAFFIC BECAUSE IT'S CONVENIENT.

PEOPLE WANT TO GET A QUICK SANDWICH OR LUNCH, A DRINK, THEY CAN PULL OFF.

IT'S NOT GENERATING NEW TRAFFIC ON YOUR ROADWAYS. >> THANK YOU.

>> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS. >> WITH THAT ARGUMENT YOU JUST GAVE, WITH 70% BEING INGRESS AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CUMBERLAND FARMS, YOU CAN FIND THEM ALL OVER THE PLACE.

THEY'RE POPPING UP ALL OVER THE PLACE NOW. MCDONALD'S AND WAWAS AND DOLLAR STORES. THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. GAS STATIONS.

WE NEED THEM. WE NEED MORE. 7 70%, AS FAR AS INGRESS, PEOPLE FROM THE MAINLAND YOU ANTICIPATE? WHAT IS IT THAT'S ATTRACTING OR BRINGING THEM? IS IT THE GAS OR THE STORE OR WHAT IS IT? WHAT ARE THEY OFFERING THAT JUSTIFIES 70%?

>> THE LARGEST ATTRACTER FROM THIS SITE -- REMEMBER, THERE'S BASICALLY TWO BUILDS.

I HAVE GOT AN 11,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING THAT'S PROJECTED TO HAVE A CLOTHING AND APPAREL STORE, A LIQUOR STORE AND I THINK A RESTAURANT AMENITY. AN I HAVE THE CUMBERLAND FARMS ADJACENT TO IT. THE LARGE GENERATOR THAT'S GENERATING TRAFFIC ON THAT SITE IS THE SUPERCONVENIENCE WITH GAS. THAT'S GENERATING, BY FAR, THE LARGER PROPORTION OF TRAFFIC IS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT USE. I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN ADEQUATELY ANSWER, YOU KNOW, IS SOMEONE FROM THE MAINLAND GOING TO DRIVE OVER HERE.

YOU'RE SAYING -- I INTERPRET IT TO BE THERE'S GAS STATIONS ON MAINLAND.

THAT'S TRUE. YOU WOULD NOT THINK SOMEONE'S GOING TO DRIVE BY TWO OTHER GAS STATIONS LIKELY UNLESS IT'S ON THEIR ROUTE. NO, I WOULDN'T -- I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU. I WOULDN'T THINK THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> I DON'T STOP AT CUMBERLAND FARMS COMING FROM THE JETTY UNLESS I'M ALMOST OUT OF GAS.

>> BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO TURN LEFT. >> THAT'S RIGHT.

TRY TO GET BACK WHERE IT'S EASIER TO GET TO. JUST USING THAT COMMONSENSE APPROACH. OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER PERONA? >> THAT 70% TURNING LEFT.

[01:40:06]

SO 70% OF ALL TRAFFIC IN TO THE SUPER CONVENIENCE STORE SITE IS GOING TO BE TAKING A LEFT TURN

COMING OUT? >> BASED UPON THE TRAFFIC STUDY SUBMITTED TO THE CITY, THEY'RE SAYING 70% OF THE TRAFFIC IS COMING FROM THE WEST. SO, YES, THAT'S WHAT'S REPRESENTED. AGAIN, WE RAN AN INDEPENDENT TRIP DISTRIBUTION OURSELVES USING DIFFERENT MODEL TO SEE IF THAT WAS APPRECIABLE. WHILE WE DIDN'T GET THE EXACT SAME NUMBERS, IT WAS REASONABLY -- IT WAS PROBABLY LESS. IT WAS MORE LIKE 60/40.

TO SOME DEGREE, IT'S SUBJECTIVE AND I'M NOT LOOKING TO PROVIDE SUBJECTIVE ARGUMENTS.

I'M TRYING TO GIVE THE COMMISSION DEFINITIVE POINTS WHERE I THINK THERE'S SUBSTANTIVE DIFFERENCES. I TRY TO IDENTIFY WHERE I THINK THOSE SUBSTANT SHALL SUBSTANTIVE

DIFFERENCES ARE. >> SO WITHOUT A THIRD LANE AND WE'RE TALKIN ABOUT A HIGH VOLUME TRYING TO TAKE A LEFT TURN OUT OF THIS DEVELOPMENT, WE HAVE AN ISSUE, OBVIOUSLY.

IN AN AREA THAT IS ALREADY OVERCAPACITY IS WHAT I'M HEARING.

>> SO, YEAH. I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR. THE EGRESS MOVEMENT, THE PEOPLE LEAVING AND MAKING A LEFT, THE THIRD LANE THAT'S RECOMMENDED BY KIMLEY HORN, THAT DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR THEM. WHAT IT DOES IS, THE PEOPLE COMING FROM THE EAST THAT ARE GOING WEST, THAT ARE DRIVING BY THAT WANT TO MAKE A LEFT, COMING FROM THE JETTY THAT WANT TO GET GAS, IT ALLOWS THEM TO GET OUT OF THE LANE OF TRAFFIC SO THEY'RE NOT STOPPED WAITING FOR A GAP IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WAITING. IT ALLOWS THEM TO GET OUT OF THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC AN EVERYONE CAN KEEP GOING. IT REDUCES THAT IMPACT.

ON SITE, THE PEOPLE ON SITE, ARE WAITING FOR GAS. THEY WILL BE TIMES OF DAY, I'M SURE, THAT THERE'S GONNA BE PEOPLE WAITING WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT TO GET OUT, WAITING

FOR GAPS IN TRAFFIC TO MAKE THAT MOVEMENT. >> OKAY.

>> IS THAT WHAT SPURRED -- THIS WON'T BE POPULAR TO TALK ABOUT. BUT THAT'S OKAY.

SOMEONE'S GONNA MENTION IT TONIGHT. IS THAT WHAT SPURRED THE OTHER GRAPHIC THAT SHOWED THE EXIT OPPORTUNITY WITHIN THE HARBOUR ISLE COMMUNITY?

>> YES. WE WERE LOOKING AT OTHER WAYS TO ALLEVIATE CONGESTION ON SEAWAY DRIVE. THE ARGUMENT I MADE PREVIOUSLY IS I'M REPRESENTS THAT SEAWAY DRIVE IS EITHER AT OR WELL ABOVE ITS DESIGNATED CAPACITY. SO WE SEE THE COMMERCIAL USES HAVING A BENEFIT FOR PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GO THERE AND IF PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE TO USE THOSE COMMERCIAL USES BY HAVING THAT INTERNAL DRIVE COULD GET VEHICULAR ACCESS WITHOUT HAVING TO GET ONTO SEAWAY DRIVE. FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, THERE'S BENEFITS TO HAVING THAT

INTERNAL CONNECTION. >> OKAY. BUT THAT DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE INTERNAL TRAFFIC OF HARBOUR ISLE. IT WAS JUST A GRAPHIC THAT YOU SHOWED ON HERE BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF AN OLD SITE PLAN THAT SHOWED MAYBE AN INTERNAL CONNECTION. COMMISSIONER PERONA, YOU MENTIONED IT A NUMBER OF TIME,

YE, RIGHT THERE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN. >> RIGHT NOW IF SOMEONE'S A RESIDENT OF HARBOUR ISLE AND WANT TO GO WITHOUT THAT DRIVE WAY, JUST IMAGINE HYPOTHETICALLY THAT I HAVE GOT CUMBERLAND FARMS AND I WANT TO USE IT. NOW I HAVE TO COME OUT OF HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE, MAKE A RIGHT AT THE ROUND ABOUT AND NOW I'M ON --

>> PLEASE. >> BY HAVING THAT DRIVEWAY, I CAN ELIMINATE THOSE VEHICULAR ACCESS UTILIZING SEAWAY DRIVE. JUST AN ALTERNATIVE ROUTE THAT HELPS ALLEVIATE SOME CONGESTION

ON SEAWAY DRIVE. >> RIGHT. SOME OF THE CHALLENGE HERE IS THAT 70%. THAT NUMBER ON THE OTHER GRAPHIC YOU DIDN'T SHOW -- THAT'S OKAY.

WE DIDN'T ASK YOU, THAT I'M AWARE OF. THE INTERNAL DRIVE WAY CONNECTION THAT WOULD REDUCE THE 70% MAKING A LEFT HAN TURN. IS THAT ACCURATE IN THOSE

NUMBERS? >> YES, SIR. I DID NOT SHOW THAT BECAUSE, AGAIN, THAT'S MORE CONJECTURE ON KIMLEY HORN'S PART. I'M TRYING TO INDICATE WHERE I THINK THERE'S EITHER DEFICIENCIES OR AREAS OF CONCERN FOR THE COMMISSION AND STAFF RELATIVE TO THE INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN PROVIDED TO THE CITY.

>> RIGHT. SO WHILE THAT NUMBER WOULD BE REDUCED BY ADDING THAT DRIVE WAY, AT THE SAME TIME, IT DOESN'T SHOW -- EVEN IF WE WERE TO SHOW NEW NUMBERS, IT DOESN'T SHOW HOW MANY TRIPS ARE BEING GENERATED OUT OF HARBOUR ISLE EAST.

WE WOULD HAVE TO DO ANOTHER COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS TO SEE WHAT THE IMPACTS ARE AND TIE IT ALL

TOGETHER. >> YES, SIR. >> I'M NOT SAYING WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT. I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS.

[01:45:04]

OKAY. THANK YOU. >> THINKING OUT LOUD.

COMMISSIONER SESSIONS. >> YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB IN POINTING OUT SOME THINGS.

MIGHT AS WELL GET OUR MONEY'S WORTH OUT OF YOU WHILE YOU'RE HERE TODAY.

>> YES, SIR. >> BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME THEN, AS FAR AS TWO LANING THE CAUSEWAY WITH THE OVERCAPACITY THAT WE HAVE ON THE ISLAND IS SETTING OURSELVES UP FOR A BOTTLE NECK EFFECT? DIFFERENT SUBJECT, DIFFERENT ISSUE.

I'M PAYING YOU. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN ANSWER, SIR? >> I CAN GIVE YOU AN OPINION.

>> THAT'S ALL I NEED. >> THE VOLUMES ON SEAWAY DRIVE EXCEED WHAT IS THE DESIGNATED SERVICE CAPACITY FOR THAT CORRIDOR. SO THE CITY NEEDS TO THEN WORK WITH, I'M ASSUMING THE TPO AS FAR AS, IS THERE A PROJECT TO WIDEN IT OR IS THERE A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF SERVICE STANDARD? IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO MODIFY THE LEVEL OF SERVICE STANDARD FOR WHAT IS CONSTRAINED CORRIDOR. THERE'S MANY COMMUNITIES NORTH AND SOUTH OF YOU THAT DO THAT VERY THING ROUTINELY WHEN THEY HAVE A ROAD WAY CORRIDOR DEEMED TO BE CONSTRAINED, SUCH AS SEAWAY DRIVE WOULD BE DEEMED TO BE A CONSTRAINED CORRIDOR 'CAUSE THERE'S NOT A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO EXPAND, MOVE, WIDEN THE CORRIDOR. SO IN THOSE PARTICULAR CASES, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TO ADOPT HIGHER LEVEL OF SERVICE STANDARDS.

BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, THE COMMUNITY IS WILLING TO ACCEPT A GREATER AMOUNT OF TRAVEL DELAY, SO DURING THE BYIEST TIMES OF DAY WHERE IT MAY TAKE TWO MINUTES TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B, YOU'RE WILLING, AS A COMMUNITY, TO ACCEPT 3 1/2 MINUTES BECAUSE IT

WILL BE MORE CONGESTED. >> THAT'S WHY I MOVED TO FORT PIERCE.

>> HAVING BEEN TO MIAMI RECENTLY --

>> HAVING BEEN TO MIAMI AND ORLANDO AND FT. LAUDERDALE, I WOULD SAY YOU'RE SAFE FROM WHAT

THEY ARE CURRENTLY FACING FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE. >> SORRY.

>> YES, SIR. >> WE NEED TOURISTS. WE NEED THIS CITY.

IT'S JUST NOT FOR A FEW. WE GOT A CITY OF 46,000? >> 45,000.

>> 45,000 PEOPLE. I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING OUT OF PLACE.

AGAIN I REPRESENT THE WHOLE CITY OF FORT PIERCE. THE BEACHES BELONG TO THE CITY.

IF PORT ST. LUCIE HAD THOSE BEACH, THEY WOULD BE ON TOP OF THE WORLD.

>> ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF MR. GOODE, RIGHT?

>> YES, MA'AM. >> ARE YOU GOING TO STAY WITH US OR ARE YOU GOING TO BE EXCUSED?

>> I'M HERE AT THE DIRECTION OF THE CITY. IF YOU TELL ME I CAN LEAVE --

>> HE'LL BE SOMEWHERE IN THE ROOM. >> THERE'S A SEAT RIGHT OVER THERE. YEAH. YEAH.

WE THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH. >> ANY QUESTIONS? >> WE ARE GOING TO HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT. UNLESS THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF OR ANYTHING BEFORE WE START? ALL RIGHT. NOW TIME FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.

HERE'S WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO. I WOULD LIKE TO SET THE GROUND RULES FOR THIS, PLEASE.

YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. YOU'RE GOING TO BE GIVEN A FIVE SECOND WARNING.

IS THAT RIGHT? >> THREE SECONDS. >> THREE SECOND WARNING.

THEN SO EVERYBODY NEEDS TO SIGN IN. WE'RE GOING TO STICK TO THE TIME, PLEASE. SO SIGN IN AND YOUR TIME DOESN'T START UNTIL -- IS THE APPLICANT HERE? IS SOMEBODY FROM CUMBERLAND FARMS HERE? OKAY. I'D LIKE SOMEBODY FROM CUMBERLAND FARMS TO COME FIRST,

PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. >> IF I MAY, MAYOR.

JUST BECAUSE I HAVE A FEELING WE HAVE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK.

IN ORDER TO SAVE SOME TIME, I HAVE SPEAKER CARDS THAT IF YOU'D LIKE TO FILL THOSE OUT IF YOU

WANT TO MAYBE STACK SO THERE'S NOT A LOT OF DELAY. >> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S DO THAT. YEP, LET'S DO THAT. >> I HAVE ONE QUESTION BEFORE WE

START. >> BEFORE WE START, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON HAS A QUESTION.

>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT GOING TO ANSWER QUESTION, WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR

DIALOGUE. >> ABSOLUTELY. IF PEOPLE ARE --

[01:50:14]

IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE ANSWERED LATER, BUT THEY WON'T BE ANSWERED DURING THE TIME THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING. I WOULD LIKE THE CUMBERLAND

FARMS APPLICANT TO COME FIRST, SIR, PLEASE. >> I'M NOT AN APPLICANT.

>> NO. I'D LIKE THE APPLICANT TO COME FIRST.

NO PROBLEM. YOU'LL BE SECOND. >> DON'T GO TOO FAR.

THREE MINUTES. >> CAN YOU DO YOUR SPEAKER CARDS AND LEAVE THEM ON THAT

CLIPBOARD, THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL. >> READY OR DO YOU WANT TO WAIT

A MINUTE? >> YEAH. I WANT THOSE CARDS TO BE GIVEN TO MISS COX. IF OUR SERGEANT OF ARMS COULD BE HELP US.

>> JUST HAVE THEM BRING THEM OVER HERE. >> OKAY.

THANK YOU. >> I'M SORRY, THERE'S JUST A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION WHILE

THEY'RE FILLING THESE OUT. >> MADAM MAYOR, MAYBE WE COULD HAVE ANYBODY WHO THINKS THEY WANT TO SPEAK, GRAB A CARD, TAKE IT BACK TO THEIR SEAT, FILL IT OUT QUIETLY.

>> YEP. ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO SPEAK, GET A CARD.

ALL RIGHT. >> DON'T HAVE THEM BRING THEM HERE.

>> I ALREADY DID. >> OKAY. >> SO NOW IF WE CAN ALL SETTLE DOWN, WE'RE GOING TO LISTEN TO THE SPEAKER. HAVE YOU SIGNED IN, SIR?

>> I HAVE CREATED A CARD. >> GREAT. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR

THE RECORD, SIR. >> ZACH MIDDLEBROOKS FROM GEORGIA.

WE'RE DEVELOPER FOR CUMBERLAND PHARMS REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT.

BEFORE I START, CAN I ASK ONE QUESTION OF MR. GOODE? AM I ABLE TO DO THAT, JUST SO I

CAN GET CLARITY ON THE STUDY? >> WHY DON'T YOU ASK US AND WE'LL TRY TO GET THAT CLARIFIED.

>> WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LEVEL OF SERVICE, THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT THE EXISTING CAPACITY ON THE ROADWAYS. I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHEN HE DID THE STUDY, IF HE WAS MADE AWARE THAT THE EXISTING STATION IS CLOSING. I THINK AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT TRIPS, YOU HAVE TO FACTOR THAT IN AS WELL. YOU'RE BASICALLY JUST MOVING

THAT 1,000 FEET DOWN THE ROAD. >> RIGHT. WE'LL CLARIFY THAT FOR YOU

LATER. >> OTHER THAN THAT, I'LL BE VERY SHORT.

WE'VE BEEN BEFORE YOU GUYS. WE CAME THE FIRST TIME I WAS HERE WAS APRIL 18TH FOR TRC.

WE HAD A RECOMMENDATION OF STAFF. SHORTLY THERE AFTER, THERE WERE SEVERAL CONDITIONS WHICH WE MET. RECOMMEND EIGHT OF APPROVAL. WE WENT TO PLANNING APPROVAL JULY 9. ALSO RECEIVED A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL.

CAME FOR YOU AUGUST 19D. CAME BACK BEFORE YOU SEPTEMBER 23 FOR A SECOND READING IN WHICH WE WERE TABLED FOR 60 DAYS TO A DATE CERTAIN OF DECEMBER 2ND FOR THE TRAFFIC STUDY TO BE COMPLETED. THE TRAFFIC STUDY'S BEEN COMPLETED.

WE'VE SEEN IT. I HAVE LOOKED AT IT. I LISTENED.

I APPRECIATE MR. GOODE'S PRESENTATION. I KNOW KIMLEY HORN.

WE WORK WITH THEM. I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO POINT FINGERS AND DIG HOLES.

WE ARE AGREEABLE TO THIS LEFT TURN LANE IF THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT TO DO TO GET THAT FULL ACCESS DRIVE WAY. I THINK IT ADDRESSES COMMISSIONER JOHNSON'S CONCERNS ABOUT TRAFFIC, KPHREURBER IN PERONA YOU HAD CONCERNS ABOUT TRAFFIC.

I THINK THAT ADDRESSES THE BIGGEST ISSUE AS I HAVE SAT THROUGH THESE MEETINGS WAS THE CONCERN IF I'M LEAVING THE ISLAND HEADING WEST AND SOMEBODY IS TURNING LEFT INTO THE STATION, I'M GOING TO BE STUCK IN THE ROAD AND WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING.

LEFT TURN LANE ADDRESSES THAT. WE'LL ACCEPT THAT CONDITION AS IT WAS RECOMMENDED IN THE TRAFFIC STUDY. I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD.

WE BEAT IT TO DEATH. >> ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT?

THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHTY. >> I AM ON 10 HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE. THE PRESENTATION BY THE PERSON WHO STUDIES, HE THREW OUT LIKE TEN MINUTES LIKE 20 DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, ITE, THIS, THAT. THEY'RE ALL RELATED TO NATIONAL STUDIES. HOW ABOUT ON THIS ISLAND. WE LIVE ON THIS ISLAND.

IT'S AN ISLAND. IT'S A UNIQUE SITUATION. YOU GO ACROSS THAT CAUSEWAY.

WHEN WAS THE STUDY DONE? I HAVE NO IDEA. COULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE SUMMERTIME. COULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN SEPTEMBER.

[01:55:02]

TAKE A SEASONAL APPROACH TO IT WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN SEASON. THE VOLUME INCREASES TREMENDOUSLY. I KNOW THE APPLICANT, WHEN IT FIRST CAME UP WITH THE ISLAND SHOPS, WE WERE TOLD WE CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT ISLAND SHOPS. YOU CAN'T COMBINE THE TWO.

THEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE GAS STATION. YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE SHOPS.

NOW IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER, THE WHOLE MIX. AS FAR AS THAT ENTRANCE ON HARBOUR ISLE, I'M OPPOSED TO THAT. THAT GIVE MESS THE PRIVILEGE TO DRIVE INTO CUMBERLAND FARMS. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE PULL OUT WITH BOATS, TRAILERS AND GO INTO THAT CIRCLE? YOU'RE NOT ONLY IMPACTING HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE EAST.

YOU'RE TALKING 500, 600 UNITS WEST. WE ALL HAVE TO COME TO THE SAME EXIT. HOW ABOUT MAKE A PROPOSAL, WHY WOULDN'T THE APPLICANT MAYBE PUT ANOTHER ROUND ABOUT ON SEAWAY DRIVE? THAT WOULD ELIMINATE A LOT OF TRIPS AND ACCESS. PUT IT THERE. THEY CAN COME IN.

I HAVE SEEN PLACES WHERE THERE'S 1/8 OF A MILE AND HAVE TWO, THREE TRAFFIC CIRCLES.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. I'M OPPOSED TO THAT ENHANCE ON HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. WHO'S NEXT?

>> I'M JUST GONNA CALL THEM RANDOMLY. >> HOW MANY DO WE HAVE?

>> QUITE A FEW. >> HOW MANY? >> I'D LIKE TO REQUEST THAT -- I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE STRONG FEELINGS, BUT IF YOU DON'T APPLAUD, I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE. THANK YOU. WHO'S NEXT.

>> RALPH BROOKS. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS ATTORNEY RALPH BROOK.

I REPRESENT THE INTERVENERS IN THIS ACTION AT 38 HARBOUR DRIVE EAST WITHIN THE HARBOUR ISLE PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED WITHOUT A CONVENIENCE STATION. I HAVE TO OBJECT THIS IS CHARACTERIZED AS A LEGISLATIVE ACTION. A PLAN DEVELOPMENT UNDER YOUR CODE SECTION 22-40 IS A REZONE AND CATEGORY ZONE. REZONINGS ARE QUASI JUDICIAL AS THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT ESTABLISHED IN BREVARD VERSUS THERE.

THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SWORN WITNESSES, OATHS. WE SHOULD BE GRANTED MORE TIME THAN THREE MINUTES AS INTERVENERS WHO ARE ADVERSELY AFFECTED AND GRANTED INTERVENER STATUS. UNDER SNYDER YOU CAN DENY A REZONE FOR ANY PURPOSE.

>> EXCUSE ME, SIR. >> I WANT MY NAME. >> I DON'T CARE IF YOU START ALL OVER AGAIN AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. YOU BROUGHT UP POINTS THAT I FEEL MY CITY ATTORNEY NEEDS TO BE HERE TO LISTEN TO. YOU CAN START OVER.

I KNOW LAWYER, HOW Y'ALL OPERATE. I DON'T CARE.

BUT I WOULD LIKE MY CITY ATTORNEY TO BE PRESENT. 'CAUSE THESE ARE ISSUES THAT --

>> COULD YOU STEP AWAY FROM THE PODIUM AND WE'LL HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE TAKE IT UNTIL MR. SWEENEY

COMES BACK. OULD THAT BE FINE WITH YOU? >> THAT WOULD BE FINE WITH ME.

>> JILL STEINER. OKAY. WE HAVE PLENTY TO CHOOSE FROM.

GOOD EVENING. I'M A RESIDENT 6 HARBOUR ISLE EAST.

I AM UP HERE AS A BOATER OF 50 YEARS. I WANT EVERYBODY TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING. BOATING ON TRAILERS, THE FORT PIERCE INLET IS ONE OF THE GREATEST NATURAL INLETS ON THE WHOLE EAST COAST OF FLORIDA FOR FISHING.

WHAT HAPPENS? IT DRAWS BOATS WITH TRAILERS. I DON'T KNOW IF THE TRAFFIC STUDY TOOK THIS INTO CONSIDERATION, BUT IF YOU TAKE A 24-FOOT BOAT.

YOU ADD THE EXTENSION FOR A TRAILER AND YOU ADD THE BOAT, YOU HAVE THE LENGTH OF SPHR BETWEEN 40 FEET AND 50 FEET OF AN OBJECT. SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT TURNS BEING MADE, SOMEBODY SHOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT MAY HAPPEN.

BECAUSE WHEN THESE BOATS WITH THESE TRAILERS, SOME OF THEM COULD BE LONGER, ARE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE THESE TURNS, THEY ARE GONNA HOLD UP TRAFFIC. THIS WILL TAKE PLACE EITHER WITH THE LEFT TURN COMING ACROSS GOING FROM EAST TO WEST OR IF YOU TRY TO DO THE LITTLE CIRCLE

[02:00:06]

HERE WHICH COMES INTO HARBOUR ISLE. A LEFT TURN BEING MADE THERE.

THESE BOATS ARE GONNA HOLD UP A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC. ANOTHER THING I'D LIKE TO MAKE MENTION OF REAL QUICK, IS THAT ACTUALLY CUMBERLAND FARMS IS GULF OIL.

CUMBERLAND FARMS TOOK OVER GULF OIL BACK1970S. THEY WERE A PROFIT MAKING ORGANIZATION. THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BE. THEY WANT TO SELL BOAT FUEL AND DIESEL FUEL. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS MORE TRAFFIC IS GOING TO BE CREATED BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF STATIONS AROUND THAT DO NOT SELL BOAT AND DIESEL FUEL.

THIS IS GOING TO BE IN ITSELF CREATE MORE TRAFFIC AND CREATE MORE TRAILERS AND MORE BOATS.

I BELIEVE MORE PROBLEMS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. SWEENEY IS BACK, SO THE SPEAKER BEFORE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO START OVER, SIR?

>> I APOLOGIZE, MAYOR. I WAS TRYING TO CONFIRM SOMETHING I HEARD FROM THE

PODIUM. >> THAT'S FINE. >> YOU CAN START OVER.

>> OKAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO GET THROUGH THIS.

MY NAME IS ATTORNEY RALPH BROOKS BOARD CERTIFIED IN CITY COUNTY LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAW.

I REPRESENTED SARASOTA COUNTY, MONROE COUNTY. I HAVE BEEN A CITY ATTORNEY FOR ST. PETE BEACH CURRENTLY CITY ATTORNEY FOR MADIRA BEACH. I WANT TO OBJECT THIS IS BEING CHARACTERIZED AS A LEGISLATIVE ACTION. ALL REZONINGS AND AMENDMENTS ARE QUASI JUDICIAL ACTIONS UNDER THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT RULING BREVARD VERSUS SNYDER.

ALSO THE GBB CASE. WE HAVE NOT HAD EX-PARTE DISCLOSURES, WE HAVE NOT HAD SWORN TESTIMONY. WE WERE FOUND TO BE ADVERSELY AFFECTED INTERVENERS ON JULY 5, 2019 EARLIER ON IN THIS CASE AND WE WOULD ASK FOR MORE THAN THREE MINUTES TIME WHICH WOULD BE ALLOWED IN A QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING BUT PERHAPS NOT IN A LEGISLATIVE HEARING.

WANT TO POINT OUT SOME DEFICIENCY. EXHIBIT A TO THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE, THE SITE PLAN, DOES NOT MATCH SECTION THREE CONDITION ONE WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT. THIS SITE PLAN HAS LEFT IN LEFT OUT.

WITH REGARD TO THE PROPOSAL BY KIMLEY HORN, A1A IS AN FDOT ROAD WAY.

YOU HAVE TO GET APPROVAL FROM FDOT. TO PUT A THIRD LANE IN, IS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE, COST THE TAXPAYERS MONEY. IT WILL ALSO AFFECT YOUR SOILS AND TREE. YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT A SQUARE PEG INTO A ROUND HOLE.

YOU HEARD SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE EARLIER WHO SAID THE TURNING RADIUSS DON'T MEET THIS GAS STATION. THEY CAN'T GET THE SERVICE TRUCKS WITH THE FUEL IN AND OUT OF THERE. HE'S AN EXPERT WHO TESTIFIED AT ONE OF YOUR EARLIER HEARINGS.

YOU HAVE TO SHOW A UNIFIED OERPBSHIP AND CONTROL. YOU DON'T HAVE UNIFIED OWNERSHIP AND CONTROL. THAT'S WHY YOUR SECTION 3 NUMBER TWO TALKS ABOUT GETTING DIFFERENT PARCEL OWNER APPROVALS. IF YOU HAVE A PD YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO COME IN WITH ONE PROPERTY OWNER IN CONTROL. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO ALSO HAVE PROPOSED VEHICULAR CIRCULATION SYSTEM WHICH YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO.

YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT ONLY. MAINTAINING THE EXISTING PLAN DEVELOPMENT SITE PLAN IS ONLY FAIR FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN HARBOUR ISLE.

THIS IS ONE OF THE PREMIERE PLANS IN THE CITY. THEY BOUGHT INTO CONDOS THAT COST HUNDREDS OF THOUSAND OF DOLLARS. ON THIS SITE PLAN THERE WAS NO GAS STATION THERE. WOULD YOU WANT TO BUY A CONDO, INVEST YOUR REASONABLE INVESTMENT BACKED EXPECTATIONS, YOUR RETIREMENT THEN LOOK OUT YOUR WINDOW AND SEE A 24/7 GAS STATION CONVENIENCE STORE RIGHT OUTSIDE YOUR WINDOW WHEN IT WASN'T THERE IN THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN TO BEGIN WITH. WE SHOULDN'T BE AMENDING IT NOW THAT WE'VE SOLD THE RESIDENTIAL UNITS TO HAVE THIS. IT'S FAIR TO HAVE COMMERCIAL RETAIL BUT NOT A CONVENIENCE STORE GAS STATION. THE LEVEL OF SERVICE ALREADY 108 TO 140% OF LEVEL OF SERVICE.

PLEASE DON'T ADD MORE TRAFFIC TO THIS ROAD. I'D ASK FOR A FEW MORE MINUTES.

I OBJECT TO THE THREE MINUTES. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> OBJECTION OVERRULED? THREE MINUTES IS ALL I GET? >> YES.

SUSTAINED. >> SO WHO'S NEXT, LINDA? >> JIM STEINER.

>> MR. STEINER? >> FOLLOWING HIM WILL BE TOM KARNS, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GET

READY. >> I YIELD MY TIME TO MR. BROOKS.

>> NO, SIR. >> I MAY NOT. I'D LIKE TO CONTINUE ON FROM

[02:05:05]

WHERE HE WAS. I AM JULES STEINER. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE NOW ON NOTICE BY YOUR OWN CONSULTANT, THIS IS NOT OUR CONSULTANT.

THIS IS NOT THE CONSULTANT FOR THE APPLICANT. THIS IS YOUR CONSULTANT THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO CONSIDER AN APPLICATION TO APPROVE A GAS STATION CONVENIENCE STORE ON A SITE THAT IS ALREADY 108% TO 147% OVERCAPACITY. THAT, IF YOU DON'T WIDEN THE ROAD, THAT WILL ENDANGER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. THIS IS AN EVACUATION ROUTE FOR HURRICANES. THIS IS NOT TO BE CONSIDERED THE SAME AS MOVING THE CUMBERLAND FARMS FROM ITS EXISTING LOCATION BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF PUMPS HAS BEEN DOUBLED.

WE'RE ADDING DIESEL, RED FUEL, WHICH YOU DID NOT SPECIFY IN YOUR BRIEF TO YOUR CONSULTANT WHO DID A WONDERFUL JOB BASED UPON WHAT HE WAS SUPPLIED WITH. HOWEVER, YOU'RE NOT IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU SHOULD BE APPROVING THIS WITHOUT THE THIRD TURN LANE WHICH, IN MY OPINION, IS SOMETHING THAT, IF APPROVED, THE TAXPAYER SHOULDN'T BE ON THE HOOK FOR.

IT SHOULD BE THE DEVELOPER WHO PAYS FOR IT. SECONDLY, THE TURN LANE IN THE BACK, THE SITE PLAN SHOWS THE DRIVE WAY ON DR. SHARD'S PROPERTY, NOT AS THE PROPOSED SECOND DRIVEWAY WAS THERE, WHICH IS CLOSER TO THE HARBOUR ISLE GATE HOUSE.

YOU'RE GOING TO SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECT TRAFFIC IN AND OUT OF HARBOUR ISLE EAST BY APPROVING A DRIVEWAY IN THE BACK. I OWN A 30 FOOT TRAVEL TRAILER. WHEN I BRING IT INTO HARBOUR ISLE, I'M EXPERIENCED WITH DRIVING IT. IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET OUT WITHOUT HITTING CURBS AND HOLING UP TRAFFIC. THOSE STREETS ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR LONG VEHICLES, TRACTOR TRAILERS, BOATS WITH UNFAMILIAR OPERATORS AND MAYBE LITTLE ALCOHOL IN THEM AFTER FILLING UP ON THE INLET. THIS IS NOT A GREAT IDEA TO PUT THAT CONVENIENCE STORE IN THERE. WE ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT OPPOSED TO DEVELOPMENT ON THAT SITE.

WE ARE OPPOSED TO A GAS STATION. WHILE WE ARE ON GAS STATIONS, YOU ARE ALL AWARE OF THE FIRE AT THE SUNOCO ON OKEECHOBEE ROAD. FIRES OCCUR AT GAS STATIONS. THEY ARE NOT THE FAULT OF THE GAS STATION OPERATOR. THEY MAY BE FAULT OF THE VEHICLE OR THE PERSON FUELING THE VEHICLE. THESE CAN OCCUR IN AN INDUSTRIAL AREA WITHOUT CAUSING SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO THOSE PEOPLE AROUND. YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OF CONDOS THAT ARE AFFECTED WITH THEIR ONLY EGRESS, INGRESS AND EGRESS IS THAT ROAD. IF WE HAVE A FIRE THERE, THAT'S

GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. >> THANK YOU, SIR. >> THANK YOU.

>> NEXT WE HAVE TOM KARNS AND FOLLOWING MR. KARNS WILL BE ANNETTE RUDD.

>> TOM KARNS 5105 HARBOUR ISLE EAST. FIRST KUDOS TO YOU, MADAM MAYOR, FOR POINTING OUT -- YOU WERE THE FIRST ONE TO POINT OUT THE TRAILER, THE BOATS.

THERE'S A BOAT RAMP RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET, SO YOU KNOW MOST PEOPLE, WHEREVER THEY TRAILER THEIR BOAT IN FROM, THEY'RE GOING TO TRAILER IT IN LOW ON FUEL.

THEY'RE GONNA PULL INTO THIS GAS STATION, PUT THE CORRECT FUEL IN AND THEN TRY TO CROSS THE ROAD AND TURN LEFT? YOU'RE GONNA BACK THAT UP. IT'S JUST REALLY GOING TO BE A MESS. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO POINT THEIR REPORT HERE, WHEN YOU SAW THAT PAGE THAT HAD LEVEL SERVICE D AND LEVEL OF SERVICE F. F IS FAIL.

F MEANS YOU'RE GONNA WAIT THREE LIGHT CHANGES BEFORE YOU CAN GET THROUGH A LIGHT, IF YOU'RE DEALING WITH A LIGHTED INTERSECTION. RIGHT THERE THE CONVERSATION SHOULD STOP ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROJECT. I WENT TO THE LOTTERY OR DRAWING TO BUY ONE OF THESE CONDOS HERE. I ASKED ABOUT THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY OUT THERE.

THEY SAID, YEAH, THAT'S JUST GONNA BE A SMALL COMMERCIAL BUILDING PROBABLY HAVE A DENTIST IN THERE, A PIZZA PARLOR, AN ICE CREAM SHOP, SOMETHING YOU CAN WALK TO.

NO ONE EVER SAID IT WAS GOING TO BE A GAS STATION WITH 12 PUMPS AND A CONVENE AGAIN STORE OPEN 24/7. IT'S NOT RIGHT. IT REALLY IS NOT RIGHT.

IT'S GOING TO DECREASE THE VALUE OF ALL THE UNITS IN THERE AND, THEREFORE, DECREASE THE TAX BASE

FOR THE CITY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> NEXT ANNETTE RUDD. FOLLOWING HER WILL BE DENNIS DEVIVO. YOU DON'T NEED TO SIGN IN. I HAVE YOUR CARD.

>> GOOD EVENING, MADAM MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. MY NAME IS ANNETTE RUDD.

[02:10:06]

I LIVE AT 37 HARBOUR ISLE EAST. FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS MANY CONCERNED CITIZENS HAVE COME BEFORE THIS BOARD WITH LEGITIMATE AND RESEARCH BASED ISSUES RELATING TO HEALTH AND WELFARE. WE PROVIDED YOU WITH DOCUMENTATION OF THE HEALTH HAZARDS AND CANCER INCIDENCE LIVING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO A GAS STATION.

THESE PROPOSED TANKS, AND IT WAS THROUGH MR. -- THE ONE FROM GEORGIA WHO SAID TO ME THEY'RE GOING TO BE 300 FEET FROM YOUR FRONT DOOR. SAFETY.

AGAIN, I PROVIDED YOU WITH CALL LIST INCIDENTS FROM OUR FORT PIERCE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT OF THE NUMBER OF TIMES IN ONE YEAR THE POLICE AND THE SHERIFF HAVE BEEN CALLED TO THE EXISTING CUMBERLAND FARMS WITH UNHEARD OF INCIDENTS.

THIS WILL BE RIGHT IN OUR FRONT YARD. WE WOULD HAVE TO ENDURE NOISE POLLUTION, LIGHT POLLUTION AND ODOR POLLUTION 24/7, 365 A YEAR. WE WILL HAVE A DECREASE IN OUR PROPERTY VALUES. I JUST RECENTLY HAD MY CONDO APRAISED AND, YES, IT WAS LOADED IN THERE THAT THE COMMISSIONERS ARE CONSIDERING A CONVENIENCE 24-HOUR CONVENIENCE STORE GAS STATION WHICH MAY ANYING NEGATIVELY AFFECT MY PROPERTY VALUE.

THE EXISTING CUMBERLAND FARMS IS FINE RIGHT WHERE IT IS. DON'T MOVE IT TO A TWO-LANE SECTION RIGHT OFF THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE. IT WOULD IMPACT ALL OF HUTCHISON ISLAND. EVERYBODY WHO HAS TO TRAVERSE WE HAVE DAY TRIPPERS.AY.- WE HAVE PEOPLE ON VACATION. IT'S AN EXTENSION OF A1A. YOU HAVE TO GO UP ON 1.

YOU'D HAVE TO COME BACK ON A1A. THAT HAS TO BE PUT INTO CONSIDERATION, TOO.

I ASK YOU TO PLEASE CONSIDER THESE ISSUES. THEY ARE AFFECTING US AND THEY WILL AFFECT US, AND THEY WILL AFFECT US ONCE THE DEVELOPER AND THE DEVELOPER WILL BE LONG GONE, BACK TO JUPITER AND BACK TO GEORGIA. WE ALL WILL HAVE TO ENDURE THIS.

I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> YES, MA'AM. >> AND YOUR WORK.

>> THANK YOU, MA'AM. >> NEXT WE HAVE DENNIS DEVIVO FOLLOWED BY ANNE MARIE BODE.

>> MY NAME IS DENNIS DEVIVO. I HAVE BEEN A RESIDENT IN HARBOUR ISLE FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS. I'M ALSO A PROFESSIONAL INSURANCE AGENT FOR THE LAST 43 YEARS. SO I CAN ATTEST TO THE FACT THAT 60% OF ALL ACCIDENTS ARE FROM LEFT-HAND TURNS. WHAT YOU HAVE UP HERE ON THIS SCREEN WILL ONLY INCREASE THE ACCIDENTS, THE OBVIOUS PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH THE ROAD CONFIGURATION THAT WILL NOT SUPPORT THE TRAFFIC GOING EAST AND WEST. WHAT YOU NEED HERE, IF YOU WERE TO REDESIGN, YOU WOULD NEED TWO LANES GOING IN EACH WAY WITH A MIDDLE LANE.

THAT'S JUST IMPOSSIBLE. SEAWAY DRIVE WAS NOT MADE FOR A MAJOR HIGHWAY.

IT WAS MADE FOR A CASUAL RIDE OVER THE BRIDGE TO THE JETTY, TO THE BEACHES SO EVERYBODY CAN ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE AS OUR GET AWAY. THOSE ARE OUR BEACHES.

TO ALLOW CUMBERLAND FARMS TO BE ESTABLISHED HERE IS ONLY GOING TO CREATE MORE HAVOC, MORE TRAFFIC, MORE CONGESTION, MORE ACCIDENTS AND MORE INJURIES. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, I REALLY AM ASTONISHED BY THIS APPLICATION GETTING THIS FAR. IT SHOULDN'T HAVE GONE THIS FAR.

WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE TO THIS BOARD IS TO DENY THE APPLICATION TONIGHT.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, SIR. WHO'S NEXT?

>> ANNE MARIE BODE FOLLOWED BY KEITH MADSON. >> GOOD EVENING.

I LIVE ON HARBOUR ISLE EAST. I LIKE IT THERE. FEW OBSERVATIONS.

THE KIMLEY HORN PRESENTATION WAS GOING BACK TO SOME NUMBERS FROM 2017.

AN COMPARING THEM TO NUMBERS IN 2014. YOU CAN SEE HOW THEY GREW FROM

[02:15:05]

2014 TO 2017. WELL, NOW WE'RE IN 2020. MAKES SENSE THE ISLAND IS GROWING. THOSE NUMBERS ARE GOING TO BE EVEN HIGHER.

THINK ABOUT THOSE PERCENTAGES AND FACTS THAT THEY GAVE YOU. I THINK THE NUMBERS ARE EVEN HIGHER THAN THAT. I ALSO WENT OUT A FEW EVENING, A FEW MORNINGS FROM 6 A.M. TO 7 A.M., A FEW EVENING, A FEW RAINY DAYS. I WENT OUT THERE WITH LITTLE COUNTERS AND I HAD A SPECIFIC HOUR. SOMETIMES I'D GO FROM 6 A.M. TO 7 A.M. SOMETIMES FROM 5:30 P.M. TO 6:30 P.M.

WHENEVER I COULD, BEFORE WORK, AFTER WORK. I WAS CLICKING AWAY.

THE NUMBERS ARE ASTONISHING. I DIDN'T THINK THEY WOULD BE THAT MUCH, BUT THEY ARE.

THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC OUT THERE. I'M CONCERNED FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL OF US. I DON'T WANT TO REPEAT ANYTHING ANYONE ELSE HAS SAID.

HANG ON FOR JUST A MOMENT. I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE TO YOU. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, ACCORDING TO THE CITY CODE, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF THE RESIDENTS OF FORT PIERCE AND TO WORK TO PROTECT OUR PROPERTY VALUE.

WE ARE TAX PLAYERS, WE APPRECIATE WHAT YOU DO, BUT WE'RE ASKING FOR YOUR PROTECTION HERE AND FOR YOU TO USE SOUND JUDGMENT. AND ONE LAST THING.

I HOPE WE'RE STILL GOING TO USE THE SUPERMAJORITY RULE TONIGHT. I GUESS I'M NOT ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTION, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE STILL OPERATING UNDER THAT SUPER

MAJORITY RULE FOR THE VOTING. OKAY. >> WE'LL CLARIFY THAT.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR. >> THANK YOU. APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU DO.

>> THANK YOU. WHO'S NEXT? >> NEXT WE HAVE STEVEN GIROSKI.

>> MR. MADSON, ISN'T IT? >> YES. I'M SORRY.

KEITHMADSON, FOLLOWED BY STEVE GIROSKI. >> GOOD EVENING.

I HAVE BEEN HERE IN 2005. I HAVE THE SAME UNDERSTANDING AS EVERYBODY ELSE.

I NEVER BELIEVED THAT CUMBERLAND FARMS 24 HOUR SEARCH DAY A WEEK STATION WOULD BE MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR. FOR THE RECORD, THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF GASOLINE ON HUTCHISON ISLAND. THERE'S PLENTY OF BEER. THERE'S PLENTY OF MILK, SNACK, FOOD. WE'RE EXTREMELY WELL SERVED BY THE CUMBERLAND FARMS AND SEAWAY MARKET. THERE'S NO NEED TO PLACE THIS SUPERCONVENIENCE STORE GAS STATION ON THIS SITE WITH THIS INTENSE USE SO CLOSE TO ALL THESE HOMES.

I URGE YOU TO DENY THIS APPLICATION. AS FAR AS THIS LOCATION AS AN INTERVENER, I SHOWED MANY SLIDES AND PICTURES. CUMBERLAND FARMS, THESE WAWAS DO NOT BUILD STATIONS ON SITE LIKES THIS. ONE EXIT SHARED WITH A SHOPPING CENTER ON A TWO-LANE ROAD. IT MAKES NOT A LOT OF SENSE. BUT THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON. BASED ON THE CUMBERLAND FARMS REPORT, THAT WAS SIMILAR TO THE OTHER REPORTS IN A WAY THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT SAFETY, THEY TALK ABOUT CAPACITY.

NOBODY TALKS ABOUT SAFETY. YOU ALL TALKED ABOUT SAFETY. THAT'S WHY YOU'VE PUT SOME CONDITIONS ON HERE. IF THAT FRONT DRIVE WAY IS REOPENED, EVEN WITH A THIRD LANE, WHICH MAY MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR A LEFT-HAND TURN, NOT EASIER, BECAUSE OF THE SITE, BUT IF YOU'RE TURNING LEFT OUT OF THAT SHOPPING CENTER, YOU'VE GOT TO FIRST CROSS A SIDEWALK.

THEN YOU TRY TO CROSS A BIKE LANE. THEN YOU GOT TO CROSS THE EASTERN TRAVEL LANE. AND THEN YOU'VE GOT TO CONTEND WITH A LEFT-HAND TURNING VEHICLE COMING IN. THEN YOU GOT TO HOPE THAT NOBODY'S COMING WESTBOUND.

YOU GOT SIX OR SEVEN THINGS GOING ON. AND THEN WHERE ARE THE SCOOTERS GOING TO BE? SIDEWALK? ON THE GRASS, BIKE LANE OR ROAD? PLEASE DENY THIS APPLICATION.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, SIR. >> NEXT WE HAVE STEVEN GIROSKI

FOLLOWED BY DIANE BARBREX? >> GOOD EVENING. >> GOOD EVENING.

>> MY NAME IS STEVEN GIROSKI. I LIVE ON THE WEST SIDE, SO WHILE WE'RE IMPACTED BY THIS, YOU CAN SEE THE ENTHUSIASM FROM THE PEOPLE ON THE EAST SIDE. THEY'RE MUCH MORE IMPACTED.

OUR OBJECTION HAS BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING THE ROADWAY ONTO THE INSIDE OF THE PROPERTY HARBOUR

[02:20:10]

ISLE DRIVE EAST. WE DON'T THINK IT SOLVES THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU THINK IT MIGHT SOLVE IF TRAFFIC LEAVES OUR PROPERTY, IF THEY GO TO THE GAS STATION, THEY'RE GONNA USE SEAWAY DRIVE. IT'S NOT A DESTINATION. IN OTHER WORDS, THE TRAFFIC IS GOING TO BE PRESENTED ONTO SEAWAY DRIVE. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN IN AND OUT SITUATION. SO WE DON'T THINK IT REALLY HELPS.

WE ALL OBJECT AN WE HAVE FOR A LONG TIME ON THE WAY THIS WAS NOTICED, COMMUNICATED.

LOT OF AMBIGUITY AND THE MATERIAL THAT WAS ON THE WEBSITE ABOUT THIS, THE STUDY CONFLICTING WITH SOME OF THE PREVIOUS DRAWINGS. WE'RE ON THE WEST SIDE.

WE SHARE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE COST OF MAINTAINING THE ROADWAY. BUT IN THE INITIAL NOTIFICATION, WE GOT ONE VOTE. WE'RE 624 UNITS. WE PAY 62% OF THE COST OF MAINTAINING THE ROADWAY. WE WERE NOTICED AND GOT ONE VOTE.

SO I THINK WE'D LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT THIS WAS PROCESS FLAWED FROM THE BEGINNING.

WE OBJECT TO SOME OF THE WAY THIS WAS HANDLED AND IT REALLY DOES REQUIRE A RELOOK, IF YOU ASK FOR OUR OPINION. OUR ATTORNEY TODAY SENT SOME INFORMATION TO YOU ABOUT SOME OF THESE INCONSISTENCIES. I WON'T REPEAT IT. BASED UPON THAT, WE REALLY THINK YOU NEED TO RETHINK HOW YOU'VE APPROACHED APPROVING THIS PROJECT.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. WHO'S NEXT? >> DIANE BARBO.

THEN AFTER THAT PAUL GROVER. >> HELLO, I'M DIANE. >> DANA: BARBO, 3701.

I'LL JUST SPEAK TO THE CROWN JEWEL THAT HUTCHISON ISLAND IS. WHEN THIS FIRST CAME UPON THE PLANNING PLATFORM, THE FIRST THING I NOTICED WAS THAT THE COMMUNITY WAS PLANNED OF HARBOUR ISLE. A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE WAS ALLOTTED TO BE HOUSING.

CERTAIN PERCENTAGE FOR PUBLIC USAGE AREAS, LIKE COMMON AREAS, AND A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES THAT WOULD SERVICE OUR COMMUNITY.

AS A DEVELOPMENT. SO IT'S VERY APPARENT THAT THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT, YOU HAD TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY ARE, RIGHT? IT'S PD.

THAT'S WHY YOU'RE MAKING AMENDMENTS, IS WHAT MY UNDERSTANDING IS.

WHY YOU'RE AMENDING THE USAGE, TO FIT THE COMMUNITY. CLEARLY, WITH ALL THE EVIDENCE YOU HAVE FROM OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT ARE SPEAKING, IT DOES NOT MEET OUR COMMERCIAL NEEDS. NOR DOES IT MEET THE SAFETY NEEDS OF THE ISLAND AS A WHOLE.

THE STRESS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO ESCAPE FROM THE GRAND CITY OF FORT PIERCE TO THE CROWN JEWEL, IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTEND WITH ALL THIS TRAFFIC AND DANGER, THEY MAY BE DENIED THAT OPPORTUNITY. THE CITY HAS DONE A GOOD JOB OF PROVIDING PARKING AT THE JETTY AREA AND NOW THAT THE BEACHES HAVE GROWN, DESIGNATING PARKING SPOTS, TRYING TO ATTEND TO SOME OF THE PARKING NEEDS, TO INCREASE CAPACITY SO RESIDENTS OFF THE ISLAND CAN ENJOY IT AS WELL. WELL, I JUST HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH MORE PROBLEM THERE WILL BE WITH ALL THE REST OF THE TRAFFIC AND TURNING. THE OTHER THING THAT I NOTICED, WE HAD AN ACCIDENT ON HIGHWAY 1 ON SATURDAY. TWO LANES OF TRAFFIC BOTH WAYS, SOMEBODY WENT CRAZY AND IT WAS IN THE NEWSPAPER. YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THAT BACKUP. AND WE HAD TURN LANES AND TWO IN ONE DIRECTION, TWO IN THE OTHER.

JUST PICK A LITTLE ACCIDENT RIGHT OUT HERE ONE GOING ONE WAY EACH WAY.

IT'S NEVER GONNA WORK. SO THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SPEAK.

>> THANK YOU, MA'AM. >> YOU DON'T HAVE TO SIGN IN BECAUSE YOU SIGNED THAT.

YEAH. >> NEXT WE HAVE PAUL GROVER AND THEN TRACY NEWMAN.

[02:25:02]

>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. MY WIFE AND I -- >> STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE

RECORD, SIR. >> MY NAME IS PAUL GROVER. >> YOUR ADDRESS?

>> SHOULD I SIGN, TOO. >> JUST STATE YOUR ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.

>> I DON'T WANT TO REPEAT EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID BECAUSE IT'S A LOT OF VALUE, BUT I THINK I REPRESENT MYSELF, MY WIFE, WHEN WE RETIRED AT AGE 70, WE SCOUTED, SPENT A COUPLE YEARS GOING AROUND THE STATE OF FLORIDA LOOKING FOR A SITE THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL, A SITE THAT WASN'T OVERCROWDED. THAT'S WHY WE CHOSE FORT PIERCE. PARTICULARLY HARBOUR ISLE.

WE PURCHASED THERE AND WE PLANNED TO LIVE THERE A LONG TIME IN BUILDING 37.

WE WERE TOLD AT THAT TIME THAT THERE WOULD BE A RESTAURANT, THERE MIGHT BE SHOPS OUT THERE IN FRONT OF US. SINCE WE'RE ON THE SECOND FLOOR, WE'LL SEE THEM BUT IT WAS NOT GOING TO BE AN IMPEDIMENT. THEN ALONG COMES CUMBERLAND FARMS, WHICH IS 31 FEET HIGH.

EVEN THOUGH IT'S REFERRED TO AS A SINGLE STORY BUILDING, THERE IS A PROMINENT ROOF.

WE'RE VERY DISAPPOINTED BY THAT. WE MAYBE HAVE TO PICK UP AND MOVE ALONG.

ALL THIS IS, I THINK, AN ISSUE SHARED BY A NUMBER OF PEOPLE. WE'RE VERY DISAPPOINTED THAT WE MIGHT HAVE TO FACE THAT AGAIN. I'D ALSO FINALLY LIKE TO ASK -- I CAN'T ASK, ADDRESS QUESTIONS TO THE COMMISSIONERS, BUT I'M SURE THAT EACH ONE OF YOU WOULD OBJECT TO HAVING A GAS STATION

IN YOUR FRONT YARD, TOO. >> THANK YOU, SIR. YOU LIVE IN HARBOUR ISLE?

>> YES, WE OWN IN HARBOUR ISLE. PAY TAXES, TOO. >> THANK YOU.

WE APPRECIATE IT. >> WE HAVE TRACY NEWMAN FOLLOWED BY ROD ROBERTSON.

>> I LIVE IN BUILDING ONE UNIT 102. >> CAN YOU PULL THE MIC DOWN FOR

YOU JUST A LITTLE BIT? >> SORRY. DRIVEWAY, IF YOU HAVE THIS RIGHT IN AND RIGHT OUT, PEOPLE ARE NATURALLY GONNA WANT TO GO OUT THAT BACK ENTRANCE THAT THEY WANT TO PUT IN THERE. MANY PEOPLE ARE OBJECTING TO THAT.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN BACK BY THE EAST GATE AND DRIVEN FROM THERE OUT TO THE ROUND ABOUT. THAT ROAD IS TOTALLY NOT SUITABLE FOR LARGE TRUCKS, BOTH TRAFFIC, ANY OF THOSE THINGS. I RIDE MY BIKE IN AND OUT OF THERE ALL THE TIME.

I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE ALMOST GOTTEN HIT ON THE SIDEWALK.

I TYPICALLY RIDE MY BIKE ON THE SIDEWALK FOR THAT REASON. IF YOU TURN THIS DOWN, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT PROHIBITING CUMBERLAND FARMS FROM DOING BUSINESS.

THEY DO A GREAT BUSINESS RIGHT NOW AND WE APPRECIATE THAT. BUT PUTTING IT IN NOW, AFTER, YOU KNOW, LIKE EVERYBODY HAS SAID, WE'VE ALREADY BOUGHT OUR CONDOS.

IT'S A CLASSIC BAIT AND SWITCH TECHNOLOGY. IT'S AN ILLEGAL MARKETING TECHNOLOGY, ACTUALLY. WE WOULD ASK THAT YOU TURN IT DOWN.

THANK YOU. >> NEXT WE HAVE ROD ROBERTSON FOLLOWED BY CRAIG BARBRE.

>> GOOD EVENING. I'MED CAN ROD ROBERTSON LIVING IN HARBOUR ISLE.

LIKE TO START BY THANKING THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE TRAFFIC COUNTS FOR US THAT I HAVE HANDED OUT FOR YOU. THEY DON'T SHOW THE HIGHEST TRAFFIC TIMES, BUT THEY CERTAINLY SHOW AN INCREASE IN THEVILLE AOUPL THAT WE'VE BEEN SEEING.

THAT'S A SIDE SEGUE. I'D LIKE TO SAY GOOD EVENING TO MADAM MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS.

TONIGHT I'M NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC SAFETY. INSTEAD I AM GOING TO ADDRESS THE APPLICANT'S COMPLIANCE WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT THE CITY COMMISSION IDENTIFIED ON CITY ORDINANCE 19037. THESE CONDITIONS ARE, ONE, BEFORE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IS ISSUED A LANDSCAPE LAUNCH SHALL BE SUBMITTED FOR ALL PROPOSED LANDSCAPING PURSUANT TO CITY CODE 22-108. HAS THE CITY SEEN THAT? COMMITMENT TO COMPLY FROM THE APPLICANT? NUMBER TWO, ADVISE PLAN SHOULD BE SUBMITTED WHICH ADDRESSES ALL INCONSISTENCIES PROVIDE ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING ALONG THE PROPERTY LINE, SHED, RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT TO ESTABLISH 100% OCCUPANT SCREENING. AGAIN, HAS THE CITY SEEN THAT

[02:30:01]

COMMITMENT FROM OR SEEN THE DOCUMENTATION FROM THE APPLICANT? NUMBER THREE A SURVEY SHALL BE SUBMITTED ABOUT THE SUMMARY TABLE.

AGAIN, HAVE YOU SEEN THAT DOCUMENTATION? THESE ITEMS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED FROM FOUR TO EIGHT MONTHS AGO. I WOULD EXPECT THAT IF CUMBERLAND FARMS WAS KEEN ON GETTING THIS APPROVED, THAT THEY WOULD HAVE RESPONDED TO THIS. FOUR, SITE WORK PERMIT.

APPLICANT SHOULD PROVIDE THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT A RECORDED COPY OF THE REVISED ACCESS EASEMENT AGREEMENT AUTHORIZING PARKING WITHIN THE LIMITS OF ACCESS EASEMENT.

AGAIN, HAVE YOU SEEN THE DOCUMENTATION? NUMBER FIVE, TURNING MOVEMENTS FROM SEAWAY DRIVE SHOULD BE RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT. HAS THE APPLICANT SHOWN YOU THEIR COMMITMENT TO COMPLY WITH THAT? NUMBER SIX, REINSTATE REAR DRIVE WAY CONNECTION. HAS THE APPLICANT PROVIDED THE DOCUMENTATION THAT ALL THREE PARTIES ARE EXPECTED TO HAVE SIGNED? THE CONDITIONS HAVE BEEN SHARED WITH THE APPLICANT OVER THE LAST FOUR TO EIGHT MONTH. IF THEY HAVE NOT REQUESTED THE DOCUMENTATION OR ITS COMMITMENT TO COMPLY WITH ALL OF THESE CONDITION, THEN THE APPLICATION

TO RELOCATE CUMBERLAND FARMS SHOULD NOT BE APPROVED. >> THANK YOU, SIR.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> CRAIG BARBRE THEN JACOB ENSOR.

>> HELLO. MY NAME IS CRAIG BARBRE. I'M IN HARBOUR ISLE EAST.

I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES AND HOW YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE IN YOUR HANDS GOING BY THE CURRENT CUMBERLAND FARMS WHICH DOESN'T HAVE BOAT TRAILERS AND BIG TRUCKS COMING THROUGH.

INSTEAD, I'M GOING TO FOCUS ON A LITTLE GRASS ROOTS EFFORT THAT SOME OF THE RESIDENTS HAD IN TERMS OF TRYING TO IDENTIFY TRULY IN 2019 AND 2020 WHAT THE TRUE TRAFFIC NUMBERS ARE.

AND THE INCREASE WHEN IT'S OFF SEASON AND OFF SEASON MEANING DECEMBER VERSUS EVEN JANUARY, WHERE THE NUMBERS HAVE GONE UP SIGNIFICANTLY. WE GOT UP TO AT CERTAIN HOURS OF THE DAY UP TO 1700 CARS GOING EASTBOUND AND WESTBOUND SOMETIMES IN THE MORNING AND SOMETIMES IN THE AFTERNOON. IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. THIS WHOLE THING DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. HAVING BOATS TRYING TO TURN LEFT ON TO THE TRAFFIC, PEDESTRIANS TAKING THEIR LIVES IN THEIR HANDS. PEOPLE USE THOSE SIDEWALKS.

THEY BICYCLE, THEY WALK. EVEN IN CUMBERLAND FARMS NOW, THEY'RE TRYING TO BEAT TRAFFIC.

THEY ZIP IN, ZIP OUT. YOU REALLY HAVE TO GET EYE CONTACT NOT TO GET HIT BY CARS.

IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. PLEASE TURN THIS DOWN. >> THANK YOU, SIR.

>> JACOB ENSOR FOLLOWED BY DAVID GREENACRE. >> GOOD EVENING, MADAM MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS, MY NAME IS JACOB ENSOR, ATTORNEY GENERAL COUNSEL FOR HARBOUR ISLE EAST CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATIONS. I SPOKE TO YOU AT THE LAST MEETING.

I KNOW YOU'VE HEARD A LOT ALREADY TONIGHT. I'M NOT GOING TO REPEAT WHAT HAS BEEN SAID. BUT I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE USE OF HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE AND POSE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT THAT I HOPE DON'T GET OVERLOOKED AND THEN MAKE A FEW QUICK POINTS THAT I THINK ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND RELEVANT TO YOUR FINAL DECISION ON THIS APPLICATION AS WELL AS THE USE OF HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE. THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE IS NUMBER ONE, REAR ACCESS OFF HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE. WE'VE SEEN DIFFERENT DEPICTIONS SHOWING DIFFERENT ACCESS POINTS. THERE WAS ONE IN A PRIOR APPLICATION, DOCUMENT, SHOWED IT CLOSER TO THE HARBOUR ISLE GATE. IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN THIS DEPICTION, IT LOOKS TO BE WITHIN THE BOUND REUS OF THE DOCTOR'S PARCEL. TO MY KNOWLEDGE THE DOCTOR HAS NOT BEEN PART OF ANY OF THESE PROCEEDINGS. ONE OF THE CONDITIONS PLACED ON THE APPLICATION IS THAT THERE'S A SHARED USE AGREEMENT. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, AND VERIFICATION, WHERE IS THAT ACCESS POINT GOING TO BE LOCATED? NUMBER TWO, IF IT IS, IN FACT, LOCATED ON THE DOCTOR'S PARCEL, WHICH REQUIRES A SHARED ACCESS EASEMENT AGREEMENT, WHAT IS HIS POSITION ON IT? AND WHAT HAPPENS IF HE REFUSES TO PROVIDE THE NECESSARY EASEMENT FOR INGRESS AND EGRESS FROM THAT POINT OF ACCESS?

[02:35:07]

NUMBER THREE, AND I THINK IT WAS COVERED BY ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS TO MR. GOODE, THERE REALLY HASN'T BEEN ANY CONSIDERATION AS TO THE EFFECT OF TRAFFIC ON HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE IF YOU REQUIRE THIS ACCESS POINT. IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IF YOU HAVE TRUCKS, ESPECIALLY LARGE FUELING TRUCKS, COMING IN AND OUT OF THAT ACCESS LANE, WHAT IS THE EFFECT ON HARBOUR ISLE RESIDENTS AND OTHER PERSONS WHO USE THAT DRIVE? WHAT ARE THE SAFETY IMPACTS WE ARE GOING TO SEE? I THINK YOU HEARD ONE OF THE OWNERS SAY IT'S ALREADY A SAFETY ISSUE WITH VEHICULAR ACCESS. IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE IF YOU START ADDING THE LARGE TRUCKS AND LARGER VEHICLES IN THERE. LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I BELIEVE EARLY ON IT WAS DISCUSSED OR THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION THAT THERE WOULD BE A PEDESTRIAN ACCESS.

I HEARD MR. GOODE SAY THE PURPOSE OF THIS ACCESS POINT WAS TO ALLOW HARBOUR ISLE RESIDENTS TO ACCESS THE GAS STATION WITHOUT GOING ONTO SEAWAY DRIVE. EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM WOULD PROBABLY TELL YOU -- I WON'T SPEAK FOR THEM -- THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DRIVE TO CUMBERLAND FARMS TO GET COFFEE OR CONVENIENCE STORE ITEMS. THEY'RE GOING TO LIKELY WALK OR TAKE A BICYCLE RIDE TO THAT STORE. IF THEY DO NEED TO GO --

>> THAT'S YOUR TIME. >> I'M SORRY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. >> APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU.

>> GREENACRE FOLLOWED BY JUDY DEICHLER. >> MY NAME IS DAVID GREENACRE.

MY WIFE AND I OWN 17 HARBOUR ISLE UNIT 306. WE'RE FROM MAINE.

WE CAME DOWN A COUPLE YEARS AGO AND RENTED IN BEAUTIFUL FORT PIERCE.

WE WERE SHOWN SOME PROPERTY HERE. WE LOVED IT.

WE ENDED UP BUYING A UNIT THERE AND NOW RESIDE THERE. I'M AN ENGINEER BUT I'M NOT HERE IN THAT CAPACITY. I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE EGRESS ON TO HARBOUR ISLE.

IN MAINE, WE DON'T HAVE AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU GUYS DO. YOU GUYS, THIS IS A BUSY PLACE.

WHEN I HEAR THAT THE CAPACITY IS SO LARGE OUT THERE, I SEE IT, TOO, EVERY DAY.

THERE IS A LOT OF CAPACITY. THEY DID A NICE STUDY AND THEY SAID 70% OF THE PEOPLE COMING

OUT OF THERE ARE GONNA TAKE A LEFT-HAND TURN. >> COULD YOU SPEAK A LITTLE

CLOSER TO THE MIC. >> WHEN YOU'RE HEADING OUT OF A GAS STATION INTO A LANE OF FOUR, FIVE CARS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A ROCKET SCIENTIST, AN ENGINEER OR ANYONE ELSE TO KNOW THEY'RE GONNA TURN AROUND AND USE A SHORT CUT AND COME BACK DOWN AND GO THROUGH HARBOUR ISLE AND GO AROUND THE LOOP. THAT MEANS A GOOD PORTION OF THAT 70% LEFT-HAND TURNS ARE ACTUALLY GONNA COME UP INTO THE HARBOUR ISLE AREA AND EGRESS OUT THERE WAY THROUGH THE ROUND ABOUT. I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THE PLANNERS FOR THE SITE AND THE DEVELOPMENT HAD IN MIND IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO I'D LIKE YOU TO CONSIDER THAT. IN REALITY, THERE WILL BE A HUGE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT WOULD COME OUT AND GO THROUGH HARBOUR ISLE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

YOU'VE GOT A WONDERFUL CITY. IT'S BEAUTIFUL HERE. WE HOPE TO ENJOY IT FOR MANY

YEARS. THANK YOU. >> YES, SIR.

>> JUDY DREICHLER. FOLLOWED BY CRAIG MASON. >> HI.

JUDY DEICHLER. WE'RE ONLY HERE A YEAR. WE LOVE IT.

FORT PIERCE IS A TOURIST DESTINATION. WE DON'T WANT THAT TO BE LOST.

WE'RE AFRAID THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. THE ATTORNEY BEFORE ME HAD SOME QUESTIONS. THAT'S WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS ASK SOME QUESTIONS.

I KNOW YOU CAN'T ANSWER THEM, BUT MAYBE THINK ABOUT THEM. I DID READ THE TRAFFIC STUDY AND IT STATES HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE IS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT CAN BE BOTH. AND HAS THE CITY EVER PAID FOR ANY UPKEEP OF THE PUBLIC PART OF IT AND WHAT IS THE PUBLIC PART OF IT? IT'S JUST CONFUSING.

SURELY, THE RECORD WOULD BE PUBLIC SINCE WE'VE BEEN PAYING FOR IT.

ALSO MENTIONED IN THE STUDY IS FUTURE USE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS MEANT BY THAT. PERHAPS WE CAN GET SOME CLARIFICATION.

AND THE FUTURE USE, WOULD IT BE THIS YEAR, NEXT YEAR? FIVE YEARS, NEXT MONTH? IT'S NOT CLEAR. WHAT TYPES OF USE ARE ANTICIPATED?

[02:40:03]

TRUCKS WOULD BE USING THE ROAD, BUT WHAT SIZE TRUCKS? WHAT SIZE TRUCKS WOULD BE ALLOWED? 18-WHEELERS, BIGGER? WHO KNOWS? THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT REALLY, I THINK, HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT BEFORE GOING FORWARD, SO THANK

YOU. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> CRAIG MASON.

IS THAT IT? >> THAT'S ALL THE CARDS. DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY CARDS?

>> OKAY. THANK YOU. >> GOOD EVENING.

CRAIG MASON, 19008 SOUTHEAST JUPITER ISLAND LANE, JUPITER, FLORIDA.

FIRSTLY, I'D LIKE TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR BEING PART OF THE PROCESS.

THIS HAS BEEN AN EXTREMELY LONG PROCESS. I THINK THE FIRST TIME I CAME TO SIT IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION WAS ABOUT 15 MONTHS AGO. THAT WAS FOR THE APPLICATION OF MY DEVELOPMENT, THE HARBOUR KAY SHOPPES. WE OBTAINED AN APPROVAL WITH BACK AND FORTH WITH THE COMMUNITY. WE MET WITH JAY, WE MET WITH COMMISSIONER. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF GIVE AND TAKE.

FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, A LOT OF GIVE. BUT I KNOW IT'S BEEN A PROCESS.

EVERYTHING FROM THE CURRENT BUILDING, LOCATIONS OF ENTRANCES, LANDSCAPE BUFFER, TYPE OF DRAINAGE STRUCTURES WE'VE GIVEN ON EVERY ONE OF THOSE THING.

WE DEVELOP ACROSS SOUTH FLORIDA AND WE CAME TO THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE BECAUSE WE BELIEVED IT WAS A BUSINESS FRIENDLY CITY AND IT WAS A CITY WHERE WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME, SPEND MONEY, CREATE A BEAUTIFUL DEVELOPMENT OF THE HIGHEST QUALITY, CREATE JOB, CREATE BUSINESS. THAT'S OUR INTENTION. THAT'S STILL OUR INTENTION.

WE ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT. I WILL TELL YOU THE FEASIBILITY OF THIS PROJECT OF HARBOUR ISLE SHOPPES IS HEAVILY RELIANT ON CUMBERLAND FARMS. IF CUMBERLAND FARMS IS NOT APPROVED, THE SUCCESS OF YOUR DEVELOPMENT IS NOT IN JEOPARDY.

WE DON'T WANT TO SEE TENANTS NOT MAKE IT. WE HAVE LEASES SIGNED.

WE HAVE THOSE LEASES SIGNED BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC. WE HAVE THE LEASES SIGNED BECAUSE OF THE GREAT ACCESS AND VISIBILITY OF THE SITE. IF WE DON'T HAVE TRAFFIC FROM THE CUMBERLAND FARMS THAT IS THE ANCHOR OF THE SITE, IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL BE SUCCESSFUL AND IT'S UNLIKELY THAT WE WILL BUILD THE DEVELOPMENT.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THESE TWO WORK HAND IN HAND.

WE'VE COME HERE WITH GREAT INTENTIONS. I KNOW CUMBERLAND FARMS THEMSELVES HAVE DONE A LOT TO CHANGE THE UMBRELLA COLORS, ADD SCREENING FOR THEIR EQUIPMENT.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH. I THINK EVERYONE'S PUT THEIR BEST FOOT FORWARD. THERE WERE COMMENTS ABOUT TURNING RADIUSES OF TRUCK.

WE PROVIDED ALL THAT INFORMATION. YOU GOT THOSE IN THE PREVIOUS PACKET. WE PROVED THAT TRUCKS CAN ACCESS THE SITE.

WE URGE YOU TONIGHT TO APPROVE THIS DEVELOPMENT. WE DON'T NEED THE FUTURE ENTRANCE TO HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE. BY ADDING THE EXTRA TURN LANE, I THINK WE PROVED THE TRAFFIC WORKS. YOU'VE HIRED A THIRD PARTY CONSULTANT WHO'S KOFPL OUT TONIGHT AND SAID THE TRAFFIC WORK. THE DEVELOPER IS PREPARED TO PAY FOR IT. IT WOULD NOT BE A TAX COST OR COST TO THE COMMUNITY.

THE DEVELOPER IS PREPARED TO PAY FOR IT. WE THINK WE'VE COME UP WITH EVERY WORKABLE CONCEIVABLE SOLUTION THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED TO US AND WE URGE YOU TO APPROVE THE DEVELOPMENT SO WE CAN COMPLETE THE GREAT VISION WE HAVE FOR THE SITE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU, SIR. THAT'S ALL WHO SIGNED UP, SO I WOULD LIKE FOR THE APPLICANT TO COME UP IF YOU HAVE ANY CLOSING -- IS THE APPLICANT STILL HERE? YOU'RE GOOD? OKAY. THAT'S IT.

WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. WE'LL ENTERTAIN DISCUSSION OR A

MOT MOTION. >> I HAVE A QUESTION.

IS THE SUPER MAJORITY STILL IN EFFECT? >> YES, IT IS, MAYOR.

IT WILL REQUIRE A FOUR OUT OF FIVE VOTES TO APPROVE. >> OKAY.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? YES COMMISSIONER PERONA? >> THANK YOU, MAYOR.

LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. WE ARE BASICALLY IN A SECOND READING, IS THAT RIGHT? SO THIS IS AN OFFICIAL SECOND READING OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED BACK IN AUGUST.

>> THAT'S ACCURATE. >> OKAY. >> WE DO HAVE A QUASI JUDICIAL

HEARING BACK IN AUGUST. >> WE DID. >> WE DID HAVE A FULL QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING. I BELIEVE IT MET ALL OF THE NECESSARY PROTOCOL FOR THAT.

THIS IS A LEGISLATIVE HEARING AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY RECOGNIZED. IN FACT THE CASE THAT WAS CITED BY THE ATTORNEY WAS SENT TO ME IN AN E-MAIL STANDS FOR THE PROPOSITION THAT IN ALMOST ALL ZONING CASES THE FIRST HEARING IS A QUASI JUDICIAL AND THE SECOND IS LEGISLATIVE.

>> SO IN FOLLOWING UP, AND I JUST -- WE HAVE ALL THESE THINGS, ALL THIS INFORMATION.

SOME OF IT'S CONFLICTING. SOME OF IT'S BACK AND FORTH. I WANT TO STAY ON COURSE.

[02:45:06]

SO THIS IS THE SECOND READING. NORMALLY SECOND READINGS, ESPECIALLY LEGISLATIVE, WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH. IF THERE WAS A DECISION MADE BACK IN AUGUST AND REALLY THAT DECISION IS ON THE TABLE AND THAT DECISION ONLY IS ON THE TABLE.

AND IF WE START TALKING ABOUT THIRD LANES, ABOUT ELIMINATING SOME OF THE CONDITIONS, IF WE DO ALL THAT, FROM EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE LEARNED IN QUASI JUDICIAL IS THE FACT THAT WE HAVE -- WE'VE GONE FOR AFIELD FROM WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. WE HAD INTERVENERS AT THE TIME OF QUASI JUDICIAL. WE HAD FOLKS SPEAK UP AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME.

VERY FORMAL, VERY FORMAL PROCEDURE. AND NOW IF WE SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGE ANYTHING, WE HAVE NEGATED THE QUASI JUDICIAL. I'M HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

SO, BASICALLY, IN FRONT OF US TODAY IS THE SECOND READING. IF WE CHOOSE NOT TO PASS THIS AND DENY IT, WE CAN GO BACK TO, I GUESS YOU'D HAVE TO TELL ME WE'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO A NEW QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING TO BE ABLE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION ALL THESE NEW DEVELOPMENTS.

SO HELP ME. >> MAYOR? >> YES.

>> POSSIBLE OUTCOMES ARE IT IS APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN THE SAME FROM THE FIRST READING. AND THAT WOULD REQUIRE FOUR VOTES.

A SECOND POSSIBLE OUTCOME IS ANOTHER CONDITION OR CHANGE IN THE CONDITIONS WOULD BE MOVED FOR APPROVAL, BUT THAT'S PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T MIRROR WHAT HAPPENED IN THE FIRST READING. AND IN ALL LIKELIHOOD IT WOULD BE SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT WHICH WITHIN THE FIRST READING, WE HAVE JUST BASICALLY KICKED THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD FOR ANOTHER HEARING. THE THIRD OUTCOME IS THAT THE READING TONIGHT FAILS.

AND THAT DOESN'T REFIRE A 4/5 QUOTE. THAT WOULD REQUIRE THREE VOTES TO FAIL. OF COURSE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE UP HELD BY COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE FROM THE COLLECTIVE OF ALL OF THIS PROCEEDING, BOTH FIRST AND SECOND.

AND THAT WOULD EFFECTIVELY KILL THIS REZONING, MAJOR AMENDMENT TO A PLAN DEVELOPMENT AND PUT IT BACK TO SQUARE ONE. BUT THAT WOULD ONLY, AGAIN, APPLY TO THE APPLICATION FROM CUMBERLAND FARMS. IT WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HARBOUR SHOPPES.

THOSE ARE THE THREE OUTCOMES. >> THANK YOU. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS?

>> TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT THE CONSULTANT HAS RECOMMENDED, WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED AS FAR AS HIS RECOMMENDATIONS ARE CONCERNED, A MAJOR DEVIATION THAT WOULD PUT US BACK IN A SITUATION AS COMMISSIONER PERONA IS SPEAKING OF?

WOULD IT? >> WOULD YOU LIKE FOR ME TO ANSWER THAT? I WOULD SAY, YES THAT IS SUBSTANTIAL. HOWEVER, YOU JUST HEARD REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE APPLICANT STATE THAT THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO BE THE FINANCIAL, I GUESS, SPONSOR OF THIS OFFSITE IMPROVEMENT. I THINK THAT SHOULD BE

CONSIDERED AS WELL. >> I AGREE WITH MR. MIMS. THAT'S A FAIR WAY TO CATEGORIZE IT. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THIS IS HAS BEEN PLACED IN FRONT OF YOU OR THE PUBLIC OR ANYBODY ELSE. THERE'S NO QUESTION IT'S GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE, BUT AT THE SAME

TIME, AS HE ELUDED TO, YOU HEARD THE OPTION. >> THAT'S AN OPTION THAT WE COULD GO BACK TO AND START FROM SQUARE ONE, WHICH WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO DO IT IF WE DECIDED TO DO IT, FOLLOW HIS RECOMMENDATION, START BACK WITH ANOTHER QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING AND TAKE INTO ACCOUNT HIS RECOMMENDATION. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> I BELIEVE SO, YES. ABSOLUTELY. >> MADAM MAYOR.

>> I THINK COMMISSIONER PERONA WANTED SOMETHING THEN YOU CAN GO.

>> ALL I WAS GOING TO SAY IS IF THIS AVAILED ITSELF BACK IN AUGUST, I DON'T THINK WE'D BE HERE DOING THIS TYPE OF THING. IT DOES ANSWER A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAD.

I AGREE, FOLKS HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE BACK ENTRANCE. THE ONLY REASON WE'VE ADDED THAT IN IS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GET ANY MOVEMENT ON SEAWAY DRIVE. WE HAD NO MOVEMENT.

WE HAD CONGESTION. THIS COMMISSION, EVEN WITH ALL THE REPORTS IN FRONT OF US, KNEW

[02:50:02]

FROM JUST DAILY USE AND IMPERICAL OBSERVATIONS THAT THIS DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

SO WE ENDED UP SPENDING SEVERAL THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON OUR OWN CONSULTANT WHO CAME IN TO ADD SOME CLARITY TO THIS. THERE WERE SOME DEFICIENCIES THAT WE FOUND OUT ABOUT.

I'M HAPPY THAT WE WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS. THIS ISN'T JUST BECAUSE WE'RE FIVE PEOPLE UP HERE THAT CAN SAY YEA OR NAY AT ANY TIME. WE'RE FOLLOWING A VERY RIGID FORMAT. THIS FORMAT HAS GOTTEN US HERE TODAY.

WE HAVE NOW SOLUTIONS TO SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAD IN THE PAST.

I'M JUST WORRIED THAT WE CAN'T GO FORWARD WITH THOSE SOLUTIONS RIGHT NOW BASED ON THE FACT THAT THIS IS A SECOND READING. WE'VE HEARD FROM OUR ATTORNEY AND AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, I THINK WE NEED TO BRING THE SECOND READING UP AS A MOTION AND VOTE ON IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. BUT I WOULD LIKE THE DEVELOPER TO KNOW THAT I AM ENCOURAGED BY

EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE HEARD TODAY AND, YOU KNOW, IF -- >> PLEASE.

WE LISTENED TO YOU. IT'S YOUR TURN TO LISTEN TO US. >> YOU THINK WE HAVE THE ABILITY JUST TO SAY YEA OR NAY. WE ARE GOVERNED BY LAW. IT'S NOT JUST BY WHAT YOU WANT OR NOT WHAT. COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL INFORMATION.

YOU WANT TO STAND UP AND TALK TO THE COMMISSION AND TELL US EXACTLY WHAT LEGAL REMEDY, WHAT LEGAL FORMAT DO YOU HAVE THAT WE CAN DENY THIS? IF WE DON'T HAVE THAT, WE DON'T DENY IT. THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES. IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING.

I LIVE ON THE ISLAND, ALSO. I'M THERE ALL THE TIME. I'M THE GUY RUNNING OUT IN FRONT OF HARBOUR ISLE ALMOST EVERY MORNING. I'M THAT GUY.

I SEE WHAT YOU SAY. WE HAVE A SECOND READING IN FRONT OF US.

WE NEED TO CONSIDER THAT MOTION ON OUR ORIGINAL -- ON OUR FIRST READING.

WE NEED TO CONSIDER THAT MOTION AND EITHER ACCEPT IT OR DENY IT. >> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON?

>> I'M GOING TO SEGUE RIGHT INTO THAT, COMMISSIONER. SECTION 3 OF THE ORDINANCE THAT'S IN FRONT OF US 19-037 WAS THE CONDITIONS THAT WE PUT ON THE DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.

I JUST HIT THE BUTTON. SORRY. TURNING MOVEMENTS FROM SEAWAY DRIVE SHOULD BE RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT ONLY. THIS IS NOT THE APPLICATION.

SO WE SHOULD PROBABLY CHANGE THE SCREEN TO THE ACTUAL APPLICATION.

THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. >> YES. IF WE CAN HAVE THE PLANNING STAFF CHANGE THAT. I'M NOT AWARE OF. I'LL WAIT UNTIL YOU COME TO THE MICRO MICROPHONE.

>> IT'S AT THE BOTTOM. SEE WHERE THE CHROME IS AT THE BOTTOM?

THERE. 12B. >> THANK YOU, EVERYONE.

>> DO YOU WANT THE PRESENTATION OR THE ORDINANCE? >> THE ORDINANCE.

>> NO, THE PRESENTATION WOULD BE GREAT. I WANT TO SEE THE SITE PLAN.

[02:55:02]

SECTION 3, CONDITIONS THAT WERE FORMATTED AND MOVED ALONG BY THIS COMMISSION.

I THINK IT WAS A 4-1 VOTE IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. MAYOR, DIDN'T YOU DISSENT? FIRST ONE TURNING MOVEMENTS SHOULD BE RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT ONLY.

DID THE APPLICANT SUBMIT ANYTHING NEW FROM THE APPLICATION?

>> IF I MAY. >> YES. >> THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE PLACED ON THIS APPROVAL WITH REGARD TO THE RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT, THE LANDSCAPE PLAN, ALL OF THAT ARE REQUIRED AT THE TIME OF BUILDING PERMITS. RIGHT NOW THOSE ARE CONDITIONS THAT WOULD THEN HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A BUILDING PERMIT.

>> OKAY. NEXT QUESTION REINSTATE THE REAR DRIVE WAY CONNECTION TO HARBOUR

ISLE DRIVE. DID YOU RECEIVE THAT? >> WE HAVE NOT BECAUSE THAT THEN HAS NOT BEEN REINSTATED. THAT IS THE RECOMMENDATION ON THE PART OF OUR CONSULTANT.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WHEN THIS WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED IN 2004, THERE WERE TWO ACCESS VEHICULAR ACCESSES ONTO HARBOUR ISLE. ONE FROM THE WESTERN PARCEL WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE THE OWNER PRESENT AND THAT IS HIS ONLY ACCESS INTO THE SITE.

SO IT IS REQUIRED THAT HE HAS ACCESS. SO THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED.

THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE THAT WAS FOR THE MIDDLE PARCEL, WHICH THE DEVELOPER, TO MY UNDERSTANDING, WU NOT HERE AT THAT TIME BUT THE DEVELOPER AGREED TO MAKE THAT ONLY PEDESTRIAN IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

THAT WAS THEN RECOMMENDED TO BE REOPENED AS A VEHICULAR ACCESS. THAT WAS MADE A CONDITION,

DID WE RECEIVE ANYTHING IN WRITING FROM THE DEVELOPER SAYING THAT WE COULD IMPLEMENT THAT, THAT THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO? WAS THERE ANYTHING GIVEN TO YOUR OFFICE? I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING AS A COMMISSIONER.

>> IF I MAY, THIS AFTERNOON WE DID RECEIVE A DRAFT PROP ACCESS AGREEMENT BUT IT HAS NOT BEEN

SIGNED. >> OKAY. QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING BY THE CITY COMMISSION ON AUGUST 19TH. MR. MASON YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR -- WHERE ARE YOU? THERE YOU ARE. YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR APPLICATION. I APPRECIATE THAT.

I APPRECIATE THE WILLINGNESS TO BRING SOMETHING SPECIAL TO FORT PIERCE, LIKE YOU STATED.

I'M JUST CHALLENGED BY WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US AND WHAT COMMISSIONER PERONA IS TALKING ABOUT. HE SAID THIS IS OUR SECOND READING.

I DON'T HAVE ANY GUARANTEES, THE FOLKS THAT TALKED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE AND THE IMPACTS TO THEM AS ADJACENT RESIDENTS. I JUST DON'T SEE -- I SEE THE COMMITMENT ALMOST.

I WANT TO DO A LOT OF THINGS. LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH ACCESS, INGRESS AND EGRESS.

I STATED LAST MEETING I WANT TO REDESIGN THE PROJECT. I'M JUST CHALLENGED BY THE ENTIRE THING BECAUSE THERE'S SOME MISSING PARTS AND PIECES. I'M STRUGGLING WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT ARE THERE. I DON'T HAVE ANSWERS FOR THEM SO I CAN'T MOVE FORWARD.

I CAN'T MOVE FORWARD. I DON'T WANT TO REDESIGN IT, LIKE I SAID LAST TIME.

>> COMMISSIONER PERONA? >> WHAT I FIND FUNNY IS THE FACT THAT WE HAD THE FIRST APPLICATION FOR HARBOUR SHOPPES TOTALLY INDEPENDENT FROM THE CUMBERLAND FARMS. NOW WE'RE FINDING THESE ARE RELATED IN SOME FORM. YOU KNOW, IF THAT WAS THE WAY THAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, I THINK AS A DEVELOPER, I WOULD HAVE GONE IN THERE AND TOLD THE STORY ABOUT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MITIGATE SOME OF THESE IMPACTS BY SHARED SPACE AND PARKING AND EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT AND RATHER THAN PIECE MEAL THE WHOLE THING. IT'S GOTTEN US TO A POINT NOW WHERE WE HAVE TO JUMP OVER HARBOUR SHOPPES BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY APPROVED. WE CAN SAY RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT FOR CUMBERLAND FARMS BUT HARBOR SHOPS HAS RIGHT AND LEFT. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED THIS THING HAS JUST BEEN JUST CHOPPED UP. I'M SORRY THAT IT'S GOTTEN INTO THIS STAGE. THERE'S CONFUSION. WE HAVE CONFLICTING REPORTS ON TRAFFIC. WE HAVE ALL THIS ENERGY INTO THIS THING.

I'M GONNA TELL YOU, I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH CUMBERLAND FARMS WHEN THEY MADE THEIR ORIGINAL PROPOSAL. THE FOLKS THAT WERE THERE WERE SPOT ON.

IT WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST PRESENTATIONS I HAVE EVER GONE THROUGH.

[03:00:04]

ANYTHING THAT WE ASKED FOR, THE LIGHTING, THE TRAFFIC, THE EVERYTHING, WAS -- NOT THE

TRAFFIC, BUT THE LIGHTING, THE PARKING -- >> THE DESIGN.

>> THE DESIGN. IT WAS PREMIERE. I WANTED THIS TO HAPPEN.

BUT THE IMPACTS TO SEAWAY, JUST DIDN'T WORK FOR ME. I DIDN'T VOTE FOR HARBOUR SHOPPES FOR THE SAME REASON. SO HERE WE ARE.E A SECOND READI SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED BACK IN AUGUST. WE'RE GONNA GET BACK TO THAT EVENTUALLY.

>> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD? >> IT'S BEEN ALL SAID.

>> OKAY. >> MADAM MAYOR? >> YES, MA'AM.

>> I FEEL AS THOUGH AS YOUR PLANNING DIRECTOR I DO HAVE TO MENTION SOMETHING THAT WE ALL NEED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION THROUGH THIS TRAFFIC STUDY. RIGHT NOW SEAWAY IS FAILING AND WHETHER WE DO A CONSTRAINED ROADWAY FOR THIS PROJECT, WE HVE TO ADDRESS OUR LEVEL OF SERVICE FOR THIS ROAD BECAUSE WE ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. BECAUSE IT STATES IT HAS TO MAINTAIN A LEVEL OF SERVICE C. MANY CITIES HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS, AS OUR CONSULTANT POINTED OUT, BUT WE WILL NEED DIRECTION FROM YOU ALL HOW WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT.

IF IT'S AFFECTING THIS PROJECT, IT WILL AFFECT OTHERS. >> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU THINK OF OTHER PROPERTIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR DEVELOPMENT.

>> ABSOLUTELY. >> THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT FUTURE PROPERTIES.

>> AND WE ARE CHARGED WITH REDEVELOPING THIS AREA. >> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT THE TRAFFIC WAS ALWAYS MY CONCERN. I KNOW EVERY SPEAKER I THINK TONIGHT LIVES IN HARBOUR ISLE.

I'M NOT SURE THAT'S TRUE BUT I THINK SO. I DON'T THINK THIS IS JUST ABOUT HARBOUR ISLE. I THINK THIS IS ABOUT THE WHOLE ISLAND AND THE POPULATION ON THE WHOLE ISLAND. BECAUSE THEY HAVE -- EVERYBODY WHO LIVES AND OWNS A PROPERTY HAS A STAKE IN WHAT HAPPENS ON THAT ISLAND. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON?

>> YOU'RE SPEAKING MY LANGUAGE. MADAM MAYOR AND I BOTH SIT ON THE TRANSPORTATION PLANNING ORGANIZATION. I MADE A COMMENT AS THE CITY'S REPRESENTATIVE ABOUT LOOKING AT THE OVERALL BUILDOUT WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OF FORT PIERCE OF THE ISLAND.

THAT'S DOWN TO BLUE HERRON, WHICH IS AN OCEAN VILLAGE. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BRIDGE AT THE TIME. THAT SPURRED ANOTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT SEAWAY DRIVE IN GENERAL. IT SPURRED SOME OLD MEMORIES OF SEAWAY DRIVE HAVING A DEDICATED TURN LANE. THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT FOR THE RESIDENTS OF HARBOUR ISLE. COMING ACROSS THE BRIDGE FOUR LANE OR TWO LANE EASTBOUND AND THOSE TWO LANES CONTINUING TO THE ROUND ABOUT BUT THE RIGHT HAND TURN BEING DEDICATED FOR HARBOUR ISLE TO ALLEVIATE THAT MERGING CONDITION WE HAVE ON THE BRIDGE RIGHT NOW.

AND THE TPO, I TALKED ABOUT IT. I SAID IF WE'RE GOING TO START TALKING ABOUT SEAWAY DRIVE WE HAVE TO START LOOKING AT THE OVERALL BUILDOUT OF THE ISLAND IF WE'RE A LEVEL SERVICE F TODAY. JACK, LUCKILY, YOU WILL BE LONG RETIRED, ENJOYING LIFE BEFORE

THIS HAPPENS. >> YOU CAN'T GO, JACK. >> IT'S A BIG EXPENSE, RIGHT?

>> I'M SORRY. >> ALMOST THERE. BUT THIS IS THE CHALLENGE HERE.

WE'RE EXPERIENCING THIS NEED -- NO, NOT NEED. WE'RE EXPERIENCING THIS DESIRE TO DEVELOP UNDEVELOPED LAND. IT'S ZONED COMMERCIAL. THIS MAY BE THE RIGHT PLACE, MAYBE NOT THE RIGHT PLACE. BUT IT IS COMMERCIAL. NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN WE HAVE A BOTTLE NECK OF SORTS ON PAPER. AND THEN WE'RE TRYING TO AMEND, YOU KNOW, THE CONDITIONS OF THE ROADWAY NOW. WE HAVE OPTIONS. BUT THIS IS A CHALLENGING EFFORT. COMMISSIONER PERONA TALKED ABOUT IT.

WE DIDN'T HAVE THE WHOLE PICTURE. I CAME TO A HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION MEETING AND SPOKE TO HARBOUR ISLE EAST ONE NIGHT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SHOPPES AND IT WAS ONLY THE SHOPPES. NOW WE HAVE PAPER IN FRONT OF US THAT TALKS ABOUT WHAT A SUPERCONVENIENCE APPLICANT TRAFFIC PATTERN LOOKS LIKE.

IT'S JUST DIFFERENT. IT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE NIGHT THEY CAME AND SPOKE.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE RIGHT NOW UNTIL WE VOTE. >> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER?

>> YES. I'M SITTING HERE TAKING IT IN. MY QUESTION IS, I SPOKE ABOUT THE FOUR LANES TO THE ROUND ABOUT. WE HAVE HERE A DEVELOPER WHO

[03:05:01]

WANTS TO PAY FOR WHATEVER NEEDS TO BE ON SEAWAY IN FRONT OF HIS PLACE OF BUSINESS.

FOR THE LIFE OF ME, WE ALLOWED THIS GENTLEMAN TO GO THROUGH -- I THINK HE SAID 18 MONTHS.

WE'VE BEEN HANKERS OVER THIS PROJECT HERE FOR 18 MONTHS. IN FAIRNESS OF THIS COMMUNITY, OF DOING GOOD BUSINESS SENSE, YOU KNOW THE CONSULTANT SAID THERE'S A WAY OF DOING IT, OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE DONE THIS. STEWART, THEY OWN A BEACH. YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE TRAFFIC. I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO OTHER THAN JUST GOING

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD. THAT'S MY OPINION. >> OKAY.

IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OR SHALL WE HAVE A MOTION? >> I'LL SAY THIS MUCH.

WE POSTPONED THIS. WE PAID A CONSULTANT TO COME BACK WITH A RECOMMENDATION.

NOW I'M HEARING THAT A RECOMMENDATION THAT PROBABLY ISN'T THE THE MOST -- NOT THE BEST CASE SCENARIO, BUT MORE AMICABLE THAN IT WAS EARLIER. WE CAN'T EVEN FOLLOW? I JUST HAVE SOME HEARTBURN OVER THAT. WHY DID WE EVEN GO TO THIS EXTENT? WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THIS? I'M NOT LOOKING AT STAFF.

I'M LOOKING AT US. I'M SPEAKING ABOUT US. IT WAS JUST A WASTE OF TIME AND WASTE OF MONEY. IF OUR INTENTIONS WERE TO COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON HIS KNOWLEDGE AND HIS LEVEL OF EXPERTISE, WHICH IS WHAT HE'S OFFERING HERE TODAY, WHY AREN'T

WE TAKING IT INTO CONSIDERATION? >> COMMISSIONER PERONA? >> I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S OUR CHARGE TONIGHT. I KEEP SAYING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THANKS TO THE LEGAL STAFF FOR DRIVING IT INTO MY HEAD. I THOUGHT BRIEFLY AS A YOUNG CHILD THAT I'D BECOME AN ATTORNEY THEN THAT PASSED QUICKLY.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN ENTERTAIN THAT. I DON'T THINK WE CAN ADD ANYTHING SUBSTANTIAL TO WHAT WE'VE ALREADY MADE A DECISION. THE BEST THING TO DO, IF THAT'S THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION IS JUST GO AHEAD AND DENY THE APPLICATION AND OFFER THE FACT THAT WE ARE OPEN FOR A BRAND NEW QUASI JUDICIAL ISSUE THAT WOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION ALL THESE NEWFOUND SOLUTIONS. AM I RIGHT ABOUT THAT? I DON'T WANT TO MISSTEP.

>> NO. THAT INSTEAD OF CRAMMING AGREE - SOMETHING DOWN WITH INFORMATION PRESENTED FOR THE FIRST TIME TONIGHT, IN ALL FAIRNESS, AND INSTEAD TAKING THE ALTERNATIVE APPROACH THAT YOU JUST SUGGESTED, IN HAVING ANOTHER QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDING IS THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS. NEITHER ARE PERFECT. LET'S BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE AT THIS JUNCTURE IS THAT WE SPENT 2 1/2 TO 3 HOURS AND MR. MIMS OFFERED US THE TRAFFIC STUDY TO HELP US BECAUSE WE WERE HAVING TROUBLE DEALING WITH THE TRAFFIC

STUDY. >> IF I CAN FOLLOW UP ON THAT VERY QUICKLY.

I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY DISPUTE THAT THERE'S A CLEAR DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS SUBMITTED PRIOR AND THE BASIS OF THE REPORTS, THE TIMEFRAMES, ALL OF THAT STUFF, VERSUS WHAT WE HAVE HERE. NONE OF THE SPEAKERS CAME UP AND SAID THAT 2014 NUMBERS WERE PERFECT AND THE 2017 NUMBERS WERE MADE UP. YOU HAVE A CLEAR DISCREPANCY.

SO WITH THAT, YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT BEFORE. >> RIGHT.

RIGHT. COMMISSIONER PERONA. >> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT IT, TO BE FAIR, WE HAVE INTERVENERS IN OUR QUASI JUDICIAL ISSUE. THEY WERE REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL AT THE TIME. THERE WAS A LOT OF MONEY SPENT, TIME SPENT.

TO DISMISS THAT AND JUST GO ON WITH OUR OWN DEAL IS JUST WRONG. IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE GOT HERE. WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION.

[03:10:02]

>> DO WE WANT TO PUT A TIMEFRAME ON THIS? >> THAT'S A GOOD POINT, TOO.

WE'RE A BUSINESS FRIENDLY COMMUNITY. THERE'S NO OTHER OPTION.

YOU CAN'T GET OVER SEAWAY, YOU BETTER SWIM OR PADDLE. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY OVER IT.

I LIKE BEING BUSINESS FRIENDLY, BUT I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH TIME IT TAKES TO DO THIS ONE RIGHT

BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO IT RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. >> ABSOLUTELY.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> TWO THINGS I'M HEARING. SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION. SO THAT TRIGGERS SOME TIME FRAME.

THE APPLICANT WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK WITH SOME NEW INFORMATION AND WE WOULD START THIS ALL OVER AGAIN. HOWEVER LONG THAT TAKES IS WHAT IT TAKES.

IF IT WAS DENIED IT TRIGGERS THE WAIT PERIOD FOR SITE PLANS WHICH IS HOW LONG? SIX MONTHS, RIGHT? I'M ASSUMING THEY'RE GOING TO PARALLEL EACH OTHER.

SIX MONTHS IS PROBABLY THE MAGIC NUMBER. YOU HAVE TO ORIENT SOME DRIVEWAYS IF YOU SAY THIS IS A NEW DESIGN. I'M NOT SURE HOW LONG IT TAKES CAD TECHNICIANS TO DO ALL THE WORK. IT'S GOING TO BE A PROCESS.

IT'S A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE. EITHER WAY IT'S A START OVER FROM THE STARTING BLOCK.

I HEARD YOU SAY ANOTHER TRAFFIC STUDY. THEY WERE RELYING ON 2014 BEFORE. 2017. SO WHAT NOW?

THEY JUST DID A TRAFFIC STUDY. >> OUR CONSULTANT DID A TRAFFIC STUDY.

NOT THEIRS. >> SO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO ONE?

>> WHATEVER THEIR CONDITIONS ARE. >> I'M JUST ASKING THE QUESTION.

>> I'M GOING TO THROW A MONKEY WRENCH IN HERE AND SAY THAT I THINK TO COMPLICATE THIS, THAT MANY OF THE OBJECTIONS ARE OBJECTIONS THAT ARE HAVING CUMBERLAND FARMS THERE PERIOD.

AND I THINK THAT HARBOUR KAY HAS MADE IT CLEAR THEY NEED CUMBERLAND FARMS THERE IN TERMS OF TRIP BECAUSE THEY NEED THAT FOR THEIR -- MY CONCERN, I'LL JUST MAKE IT REALLY CLEAR, HAS NEVER BEEN THAT IT WAS A CUMBERLAND FARMS. IT HAS BEEN THE TRAFFIC GOING IN AND OUT OF THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION AND THE SAFETY AND THE ACCIDENTS AND THE BICYCLES AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. I REITERATE MY EARLIER FEELING THAT THE CUMBERLAND FARMS IS A GREAT NEIGHBOR IN ITS CURRENT LOCATION.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR BEFORE WE EMBARK ON SOMETHING THAT IS, THAT GIVES EXPECTATIONS OF ALL THE COMMISSION. THAT'S WHERE I STAND. COMMISSIONER PERONA?

>> WE HEARD TODAY RESIDENTS FROM HARBOUR ISLE. I THINK ALL OF THEM SPOKE AGAINST IT. IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THE ACCESS POINT ON HARBOUR ISLE DRIVE, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN FOLKS FOR IT. I HAVE BEEN APPROACHED, ESPECIALLY FROM FOLKS IN THE GOVERNMENT, PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATIONS CAME IN SUPPORT OF CUMBERLAND FARMS. IT'S NOT EVERYBODY FROM CUMBERLAND FARMS IS AGAINST IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THAT. >> LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE. >> I'M SAYING THAT --

>> THIS IS OUR DISCUSSION. >> I'M TELLING YOU I HAVE HAD FOLKS FROM HARBOUR ISLE IN MY OFFICE SAYING THEY APPROVED OF THE SITE AND THEY WANTED IT TO HAPPEN.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE HAD THE SAME THING. >> SAME.

>> I'M SAYING THAT HAPPENED. SO THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT DOING WHAT'S RIGHT FOR HARBOUR ISLE.

>> ABSOLUTELY. >> I HAVE HAD ENOUGH CONFLICTING INFORMATION AND INCONSISTENCIES

[03:15:03]

THAT I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THE APPLICATION BASED ON THAT.

>> SECOND. >> IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? SHALL WE VOTE?

CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE. >> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER? >> YES.

>> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER PERONA.

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS. >> YES, MA'AM.

>> MAYOR HUDSON? >> YES, MA'AM. >> OKAY.

I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING FOR THE RECORD. >> THIS IS THE CITY OF FORT

PIERCE. >> GREAT JOB. >> LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IF YOU'LL MOVE TO THE FOYER, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. WE'LL CONTINUE WITH OUR MEETING.

IF YOU COULD TAKE YOUR CONVERSATIONS OUT TO THE FOYER, PLEASE.

THANK YOU. >> SHHHH. >> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. IF YOU COULD PLEASE LEAVE THE CHAMBERS, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. WE'D LIKE TO GO HOME, TOO. THANK YOU, EVERYONE.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> MR. SWEENEY, ARE WE READY?

>> MR. SWEENEY ASKED FOR US. >> I WASN'T SURE IF HE WAS GOING TO APPROACH THE PROGRAM OR NOT.

>> I HAVE THREE HERNIATED DISKS. NO FUN. >> NO.

>> MADAM MAYOR, IF I MAY, IN LIGHT OF THE VOTE THAT JUST OCCURRED, HAVING LISTENED TO YOUR DELIBERATION YOU COLLECTIVELY INDICATED THE FOLLOWING PIECES OF SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE FORMED THE BASIS FOR YOUR DENIAL. MAJOR AMENDMENT FOR HARBOUR ISLE SEAWAY DRIVE. THEY INCLUDE CONCERNS WITH TRAFFIC, RAMIFICATIONS PARTICULARLY WITH INGRESS AND EGRESS AS WELL AS OVERBURDENING AND FALLING LEVEL OF SERVICE ROAD WHICH JEOPARDIZES THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF ITS CITIZEN.

IF I'M INCORRECT OF COMPETENT EVIDENCE AS THE BASIS OF YOUR DENIAL, PLEASE SPEAK NOW.

OTHERWISE,LY UTILIZE THAT TO MOVE FORWARD. >> YES, SIR.

>> JUST WANT TO ADD THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE SET FORTH IN THE FIRST HEARING --

>> OF AUGUST 19TH, 2019. >> AUGUST 19TH. DIDN'T SEE ANY SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WORDS ARE, TO SUBSTANT KWRAEUT THOSE CONDITIONS TO SAY

THE APPLICATIONS WERE BEING CHANGED. >> TYPICALLY WHEN WE HAVE A DENIAL, WE HAVE A LETTER THAT GOES OUT. THAT WILL BE INCLUDED AS A LACK OF COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THOSE CONDITIONS.

>> ALSO, I DON'T THINK THAT YOU USED THE CONCERNS FOR SAFETY. IT'S THE WORD SAFETY, DID YOU

SAY SAFETY? >> I SAID HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE, BUT I MAY HAVE SAID IT QUICKLY AT THE END. BUT, YES, THANK YOU, MAYOR. ABSOLUTELY.

>> ALL RIGHT. SHALL WE MOVE ON? >> NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS

[a. Selection of Mayor Pro Tem pursuant to Section 23 of the City Charter which requires the City Commissioners to select one (1) of their number as Mayor Pro Tem at the first regular meeting following January 1.]

SELECTION OF MAYOR PROTEM OF THE CITY CHARTER WHICH REQUIRES THE CITY COMMISSIONERS TO SELECT ONE OF THEIR MEMBER AS MAYOR PROTEM AT THE FIRST REGULAR MEETING FOLLOWING JANUARY 1ST.

IF WE PROCEED WITH THE ROTATION, COMMISSIONER PERONA. >> WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND.

FOR COMMISSIONER PERONA. IT'S HIS TURN. LET'S GO.

>> MAYOR, DO NOT MISS A MEETING. >> KPHREURBER IN ALEXANDER? >> YES.

>> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON? >> YES. >> COMMISSIONER PERONA?

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS? >> YES, MA'AM.

>> MAYOR HUDSON? >> YES, MA'AM. >> OKAY.

[b. Resolution No. 20-R01 Reappointing JoAnn Parrish to the Fort Pierce Housing Authority Board.]

RESOLUTION 20-R01 IS A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION AND THE CITY OF FORT

PIERCE CERTIFYING THE MAYOR'S APPROVAL OF JOANN PARRISH. >> MOVE TO APPROVE.

>> SECOND. >> CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE. >> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER?

>> YES. >> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> YES.

>> COMMISSIONER PERONA. >> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSION?

[c. Resolution No. 20-R02 determining that the structure located at 913 Avenue B is unsafe and should be condemned and demolished and setting a hearing to determine this matter before the City Commission on February 3, 2020.]

[03:20:03]

>> YES, MA'AM. >> MAYOR HUDSON? >> YES, MA'AM.

>> NEXT DETERMINING A CERTAIN BILLING STRUCTURE 913 AVENUE B IN FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA, 34950 IS UNSAFE AND NUISANCE THAT CONSTITUTES A MENACE TO THE BUSINESS HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE COMMUNITY AND ALL PARTIES MUST SHOW CAUSE WHY THE STRUCTURE SHOULD NOT BE CONDEMNED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE AND NOTIFYING ALL PARTIES OF POTENTIAL ACTION BY THE CITY FOR FAILURE TO ACT AND A PUBLIC HEARING BE HELD AT THE REGULAR CITY COMMISSION MEETING FEBRUARY 3, 2020 AT 6:30 P.M. IN THE COMMISSION CHAMBERS 100 NORTH

U.S. HIGHWAY 1, FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA. >> THIS IS A RESOLUTION THAT JUST STARTS THE PROCESS, IS THAT RIGHT? I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

>> SECOND. >> COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER. >> YES.

>> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER PERONA.

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS. >> MAYOR HUDSON?

[d. Resolution No. 20-R03 appointing members to the Parking Committee.]

>> YES, MA'AM. >> NEXT CITY OF FORT PIERCE CERTIFYING THE APPOINTMENT OF

MEMBERS OF THE PARKING COMMITTEE. >> LIKE TO APPOINT ANTON KREZEL.

>> DAN CURBMAN. >> DORIS TILLMAN. >> I WOULD LIKE TO APPOINT RUBY

SM SMITH. >> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, COULD

YOU GIVE ME YOUR NAME AGAIN? >> KREISMAN. >> BOUCHET.

OKAY. I THINK WE HAVE SEVEN APPLICATIONS.

IF IT'S THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION, THE FINAL TWO WILL BE APPOINTED TO THE COMMISSION

AT LARGE. >> WHO ARE THEY? >> GUS GUTIERREZ AND ROSE LYNN

BRADSHAW. >> ROSE LYNN AND M. BRODERICK. >> DO I HAVE RUBY SMITH BY

COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER. >> YES. >> ANTON KREIZEL.

>> YES. >> DORIS TILLMAN. DAVID BOUCHER.

DAN KUSHMAN. >> RUBY WASN'T ON THE LIST. >> SHE JUST BROUGHT IN HER

APPLICATION. >> OKAY. I DON'T HAVE THAT.

>> SHE MIGHT NOT BE ON THE LIST. I'LL MAKE SURE SHE E-MAILS YOU HER APPLICATION.

>> I'LL GET HER CONTACT INFORMATION AND REACH OUT TO HER.

OKAY. WE HAVE THREE. WE HAVE ROSALYNN BRADSHAW, MICHAEL BROADDRICK AND GUS GUTIERREZ. THOSE THREE TO FILL TWO SEATS.

>> DO YOU HAVE A BALLOT? IF SOMEBODY COULD -- >> WE CAN DO THAT.

>> WHY DON'T WE DO IT AT THE NEXT MEETING? YOU HAVE TO GET SOMETHING FROM

RUBY SMITH, RIGHT? >> YEAH. >> DO YOU HAVE A BETTER IDEA?

>> I'LL NOMINATE GUS GUTIERREZ AND MIKE BROADDRICK. >> SECOND.

>> THERE'S A SECOND. WE'LL JUST SELECT THOSE. ALL RIGHT.

LET'S VOTE. >> COMMISHNER JOHNSON MADE THE MOTION.

COMMISSIONER SESSIONS? COMMISSIONER ALEXANDER. >> YES.

>> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER PERONA.

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER SESSIONS. >> YES, MA'AM.

>> MAYOR HUDSON. >> YES, MA'AM. >> NEXT WE HAVE COMMENTS FROM

[14. COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC Any person who wishes to comment on any subject may be heard at this time. Please limit your comments to three (3) minutes or less, as directed by the Mayor, as this section of the Agenda is limited to thirty minutes. The City Commission will not be able to take any official actions under Comments from the Public. Speakers will address the Mayor, Commissioners, and the Public with respect. Inappropriate language will not be tolerated.]

THE PUBLIC. >> IS THERE ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO SPEAK, PLEASE COME FORWARD STATE YOUR NAME. DO YOU WANT THEM TO SIGN IN? PLEASE SIGN IN. THAT DOESN'T COUNT FOR YOUR TIME.

YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.

>> STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. >> 2833 STONE WAY LANE IN FORT PIERCE. GOOD EVENING. HARD NIGHT.

[03:25:03]

HARD DECISIONS. I HAVE ANOTHER ONE, ANOTHER REQUEST FOR YOU.

I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT MORRIS CREEK. OUR QUARTERLY CLEANUPS ARE ENTERING THEIR EIGHTH YEAR. THEY OCCUR IN FEBRUARY, MAY, AUGUST AND NOVEMBER.

THE LAST THREE MONTHS OF 2019 WE WERE GETTING BETWEEN 40 AND 50 PEOPLE AT OUR CLEANUPS.

IT'S BEEN A PHENOMENAL TURNOUT. A LOT OF IT I CAN GIVE CREDIT TO THE CITY DEPARTMENTS.

IT SEEMS LIKE A DEPARTMENT PICKS US EVERY CLEANUP AND COMES OUT WITH THEIR FAMILIES.

IT'S JUST BEEN A PHENOMENAL THING. WE HAVE A CONTINUING PROBLEM WITH THE INVASIVE SPECIES ON THE WATER SURFACE. LAST YEAR FOR THE HIGH WOMEN'S FESTIVAL, THEY HAD GOTTEN THAT NEW MACHINE AND THEY CLEANED RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF THE FESTIVAL. WE HAD OUR CLEANUP THE SAME DAY, JUST LIKE WE WILL THIS DAY.

AND WE COULDN'T GET KAYAKS IN THE WATER. THAT WAS THE CASE.

THIS LAST CLEANUP, THE CITY SENT CLEANUP VEHICLE OUT THERE AND FOR OUR CLEANUP, THEY DID THE LOWER PART AND THEY DID SOME OF THE 10TH STREET PART. AND THEY TOOK ALL THE VEGETATION AND PUT IT ON OUR KAYAK LAUNCH SITES. OF WHICH WE HAVE TWO.